Installation Mass for a Woman

[THurifer2]

I agree that there is nothing wrong per se in having a woman in that position-pastoral lay administrator?-other than the fact that it’s tragic that it’s no longer possible for every parish to have at least one full time priest. However, it does appear that this parish is trying to “push the envelope” as far as they can to make this woman look like a quasi priest(ess). An “installation mass” was not necessary or appropriate, nor was her wearing an alb. I’m willing to bet that she gets to lead Communion services (and preach) whenever there is no priest available to celebrate mass, while wearing her alb.

At my parish, at the beginning of the school year, all the catechists stand up at the end of mass (wearing their own clothes) and receive a blessing from the priest to start the year. That would have been all that was necessary and appropriate w/ this woman, as well, if she was a truly humble servant, (as we are all called to be in our various vocations and states in life) just doing what was necessary to keep a parish open and running without a priest. JMO, obviously, but that picture is really worth a thousand words.

In Christ,

Ellen

I agree with you 100% ellen…well put. The rumor is though the two parishes will be closed in another year. a PLA is not a liturgical position. She mentions doing stations of the cross…No doubt she will be playing priest.

 

[Paten]

Vocations might be recovering but not at the rate needed to meet the growing needs of the Catholic population. Parishes here in the Northeast used to have 5 priests living in a rectory. Now the norm is two or less, and those in these parishes are overworked. While we have 6 being ordained this year we also have about 15 who are retiring, a good number of them because of illness that keeps them from public ministry.

It doesn’t take “5 priests living in a rectory to meet the growing needs of the Catholic population.”

 

[Paten]

We had a parish that never seemed to have a pastor assigned to it. A lot of monkey-business went on there. One of the parishioners, a retired businessman stepped-up to be the parish manager. He never donned an alb or led CSs. He spent his time lining-up priests to celebrate Masses and taking care of the facilities and administration of the parish. They have a pastor now but he did a good job for over 2 years…

 

[John_Lilburne]

The Book of Blessings, in the edition approved for the USA, has this added blessing, not in the original Latin edition:

“Chapter 60
ORDER FOR THE BLESSING OF THOSE WHO EXERCISE PASTORAL SERVICE
1808 In the life of a parish there is a diversity of services that are exercised by lay persons. It is fitting that as people publicly begin their service they receive the blessing of God who gives the gifts needed to carry out this work.”

The introduction goes on to explain that this can be done during Mass or a “celebration of the word of God” and that the blessing is done by a priest or deacon. So there is no problem with this, at least in the USA.

About the alb. Given her role in the parish it seems appropriate for her to be a minister in the Mass, whether as reader, altar server, cantor, psalmist, commentator, extraordinary minster of Holy Communion, part of the choir, etc. From the 2002 GIRM n. 119(c) “c. For the other ministers: albs or other lawfully approved attire.” So even if people think only ministers should wear an alb, how do they know she was not a minister?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Bull.

Vocations are recovering quite nicely in the USA…

That’s one lie you don’t hear too much anymore – the “crisis of vocations.”

Sorry that pointing out reality upsets you so much, but I really don’t think anyone is lying about it.

Fact is, in my state, they are closing parishes, because of the lack of priest, and lack of support for various parishes.

I don’t think my state is unique in this regard.

Jim

 

[Joannm]

It doesn’t take “5 priests living in a rectory to meet the growing needs of the Catholic population.”

If you have 10,000 families in a parish it might.

 

[palmas85]

No Catholic may reject any part of the Church’s dogmatic deposit of faith…

“When it comes to relativism, the absolute worst examples I see are those that label themselves as “traditional” or “conservative” Catholics. They always seem to know what’s best – even if it contravenes what the Church directs.”

In my experience most “cafeteria Catholics” are those who who reject things for what they personally feel is “better.” The one example I used are those who kneel when they should be standing per the Church.

Many do however reject dogmatic teachings of the Church yet call themselves and consider themselves to be Catholics.

Which ones are you referring to as kneeling when they should be standing as per the Church?

 

[Paten]

Sorry that pointing out reality upsets you so much, but I really don’t think anyone is lying about it.

Fact is, in my state, they are closing parishes, because of the lack of priest, and lack of support for various parishes.

I don’t think my state is unique in this regard.

Jim

They are OPENING parishes here and celebrating many Masses/parish here.

Of course this is California and we never really had different ethnic parishes on each corner.

 

[Paten]

If you have 10,000 families in a parish it might.

If there were 10,000 families in a single parish then there are far larger problems.

 

[Paten]

Many do however reject dogmatic teachings of the Church yet call themselves and consider themselves to be Catholics.

Which ones are you referring to as kneeling when they should be standing as per the Church?

So? They aren’t.

 

[THurifer2]

The hilarious part about this is that if you actually came to mass at my parish you’d probably love it and want to make it your home parish - assuming that you can tolerate ANY form of the “new mass”.

Since I know you consider yourself as a “liturgist” I have placed rubrics and bolded a certain word in your quote. I’ll leave it up to you to decide why I did.

 

[Joannm]

If there were 10,000 families in a single parish then there are far larger problems.

In a diocese with 1.3 million Catholics big parishes are the norm. 10,000 are the largest parishes. The smallest parish, in a summer resort area, may have less than 1,000 familes in the winter, but swells in the summer. An average parish in our diocese has between 3,000-7,000 families.

 

[Paten]

Has your diocese broken down the numbers?

Our has - and with the number of priests scheduled to retire within the next 10 years vs. the number of seminarians scheduled to be ordained within the next 10 years - there IS a crisis.

Maybe your diocese is one of the few with so many priests that every parish, no matter its size still has a pastor and several associates.

Not so in most places.

We have enough priests now and for the foreseeable future. There are indeed some arch/dioceses in trouble but it’s of their own doing. That doesn’t mean there is a “crisis of vocations” throughout the Church however.

 

[Paten]

In a diocese with 1.3 million Catholics big parishes are the norm. 10,000 are the largest parishes. The smallest parish, in a summer resort area, may have less than 1,000 familes in the winter, but swells in the summer. An average parish in our diocese has between 3,000-7,000 families.

10,000 families?

That’s what, 30-40K parishioners? No way. Not the norm. My archdiocese is approaching 5M Catholics and we don’t have even a single parish anywhere near that size.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Since I know you consider yourself as a “liturgist” I have placed rubrics and bolded a certain word in your quote. I’ll leave it up to you to decide why I did.

“my” - as used here: could refer to a parish in which I, as a person, take ownership of, either as a parishioner or interested party.

It could also refer to the parish in which I work in a paid capacity; this language is common in the English language as people often say “At my job”, or “In my company” to denote the company or place they work in.

It has nothing to do with me thinking it is literally “my” parish to do as I please with.

I’m sorry that I had to point this out.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

I agree with you 100% ellen…well put. The rumor is though the two parishes will be closed in another year. a PLA is not a liturgical position. She mentions doing stations of the cross…No doubt she will be playing priest.

She will not be “playing priest”. She will be a lay person presiding at a devotion. A devotion is not mass and does not need a priest to preside.

It is fully appropriate to wear the alb, the symbol of our baptism, while excercising a leadership role.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Which is why my wife and I are seriously considering moving to Lincoln. We have freinds who moved here from there and they have already sold their house to move back. In all likelyhood we will be moving.

What is so wonderful about the diocese of Lincoln?

In any diocese you can usually find parishes that you can reasonably question if they are Catholic, parishes that offter the latin mass regularly, and every kind of parish in between.

Can you really not find a parish to your liking in your diocese? And are there really not any parishes that don’t meet your approval in Lincoln?

 

[palmas85]

So? They aren’t.

You didn’t answer the question. Whom are you referring to as those who choose to kneel… There are several different groups and parts of the Mass where this occurs. I would like to know which ones you consider to be as you called them, cafeteria catholics.

 

[THurifer2]

What is so wonderful about the diocese of Lincoln?

In any diocese you can usually find parishes that you can reasonably question if they are Catholic, parishes that offter the latin mass regularly, and every kind of parish in between.

Can you really not find a parish to your liking in your diocese? And are there really not any parishes that don’t meet your approval in Lincoln?

Hordes of priests in Lincoln compared to almost anywhere on the planet. Even the smallest of parishes have at least one priest…many have multiple. AND they don’t have Lay Liturgists or a lay ministry program.

HERE is a good article on explaining why Lincoln is very unique. Can you name any other diocses in the world that is know to attract people because of its reputation? enough of a reputation to be noticed by the media?

HERE is another article that mentions the contrast between Lincoln and Saginaw…

 

[LRThunder]

Hordes of priests in Lincoln compared to almost anywhere on the planet. Even the smallest of parishes have at least one priest…many have multiple. AND they don’t have Lay Liturgists or a lay ministry program.

HERE is a good article on explaining why Lincoln is very unique. Can you name any other diocses in the world that is know to attract people because of its reputation? enough of a reputation to be noticed by the media?

HERE is another article that mentions the contrast between Lincoln and Saginaw…

Not to mention the Diocese of Lincoln is home to the U.S. FSSP Seminary.