Instruments to be used at mass

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Oh dear.
Does anyone know that hymns are a 3rd or 4th choice for most points in the Mass when they are used? We’re supposed to be hearing “the propers”, which are chants (yes, chants, GASP) set to music by the church.
It’s kind of like not doing the prescribed prayers for the day, because the priest likes something else (maybe “The Shack”, or Dr. Seuss, etc.)
I am afraid this is simply incorrect. The Propers are no longer “proper” in the way that they once were because the GIRM gives several options about what can be used, and not in incremental or preferential order. The choice today is to sing either the antiphon from the Graduale Romanum, or the antiphon from the Graduale Simplex (which will be different), or another chant or song that is appropriate to the liturgical action, the day or the season.

Promoting the chanting of “the Propers” as something we “should be hearing” is simply untenable and goes against the church norms prescribed in Musicum Sacram and the GIRM. The Propers are now simply one option among several — nothing more. Furthermore, many people often mistake the missal antiphons for the propers - these are not intended for singing but for receiting if there is no singing.

The best way to do justice to GIRM and the Roman Rite is to exercise the three judgements we are asked to do: liturgical, musical and pastoral in relation to choice of music.
 
Instruments I’ve heard and liked:
*Piano. Obvious reasons. Poor man’s organ.
*Guitar. Not any fancy riffs or stuff like in rock music. Just strumming along for more chordal accompaniment. (Specifically, it was an amplified acoustic guitar)
*Flute. I play this, so I’m kinda biased 😃

Instruments I haven’t heard, but don’t think I’d mind:
*Lighter percussion.
*Conditionally trumpet. (It’d need to be on something appropriate, like the Gloria at the Easter Vigil)

Instruments I wouldn’t like:
*Sax. Nothing against them. It’s just a different tone than I like at church
*Heavy percussion. I don’t mind a rhythm section. I’d just prefer that it not be so noticeable.
 
Instruments I’ve heard and liked:
*Piano. Obvious reasons. Poor man’s organ.
*Guitar. Not any fancy riffs or stuff like in rock music. Just strumming along for more chordal accompaniment. (Specifically, it was an amplified acoustic guitar)
*Flute. I play this, so I’m kinda biased 😃

Instruments I haven’t heard, but don’t think I’d mind:
*Lighter percussion.
*Conditionally trumpet. (It’d need to be on something appropriate, like the Gloria at the Easter Vigil)

Instruments I wouldn’t like:
*Sax. Nothing against them. It’s just a different tone than I like at church
*Heavy percussion. I don’t mind a rhythm section. I’d just prefer that it not be so noticeable.
👍
You haven’t heard the Gloria til you’ve had a couple trumpets along with a big pipe organ and full choir at Easter Vigil. The lights come on and the rood just lifts off the building. The whole building literally rattles.
Also Joy to the World at Christmas with trumpets etc… Heaven on earth.
 
I am afraid this is simply incorrect. The Propers are no longer “proper” in the way that they once were because the GIRM gives several options about what can be used, and not in incremental or preferential order. The choice today is to sing either the antiphon from the Graduale Romanum, or the antiphon from the Graduale Simplex (which will be different), or another chant or song that is appropriate to the liturgical action, the day or the season.

Promoting the chanting of “the Propers” as something we “should be hearing” is simply untenable and goes against the church norms prescribed in Musicum Sacram and the GIRM. The Propers are now simply one option among several — nothing more. Furthermore, many people often mistake the missal antiphons for the propers - these are not intended for singing but for receiting if there is no singing.

The best way to do justice to GIRM and the Roman Rite is to exercise the three judgements we are asked to do: liturgical, musical and pastoral in relation to choice of music.
Well, here is the quote from the GIRM:

The Entrance
  1. When the people are gathered, and as the Priest enters with the Deacon and ministers, the Entrance Chant begins. Its purpose is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical time or festivity, and accompany the procession of the Priest and ministers.
  2. This chant is sung alternately by the choir and the people or similarly by a cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, there are four options for the Entrance Chant: (1) the antiphon from the Missal or the antiphon with its Psalm from the Graduale Romanum, as set to music there or in another setting; (2) the antiphon and Psalm of the Graduale Simplex for the liturgical time; (3) a chant from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including Psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop.
Funny that I don’t think I’ve EVER heard choices #1-3. I wonder why they are completely never used…
Also, I think there is much discussion over whether the options are in preferential order or not. I’m not sure we can assume that they are in random order.
 
👍
You haven’t heard the Gloria til you’ve had a couple trumpets along with a big pipe organ and full choir at Easter Vigil. The lights come on and the rood just lifts off the building. The whole building literally rattles.
Also Joy to the World at Christmas with trumpets etc… Heaven on earth.
Okay. That too. Point is, I don’t really like the trumpet unless you’re really trying to sound triumphant. Again, in cases like the Gloria at the Easter Vigil or Joy to the World at Christmas.
 
Instruments I’ve heard and liked:
*Piano. Obvious reasons. Poor man’s organ.
*Guitar. Not any fancy riffs or stuff like in rock music. Just strumming along for more chordal accompaniment. (Specifically, it was an amplified acoustic guitar)
*Flute. I play this, so I’m kinda biased 😃

Instruments I haven’t heard, but don’t think I’d mind:
*Lighter percussion.
*Conditionally trumpet. (It’d need to be on something appropriate, like the Gloria at the Easter Vigil)

Instruments I wouldn’t like:
*Sax. Nothing against them. It’s just a different tone than I like at church
*Heavy percussion. I don’t mind a rhythm section. I’d just prefer that it not be so noticeable.
Where would euphonium fit in your hierarchy of preferences? 😃
 
A small church might not be able to afford a new electronic organ, but places like Craigslist often have organs for sale fairly cheap. The main thing to look for is that they have at least two 61-key manuals, one above the other (not staggered with one above and to the right), and that they have a full 32-note pedalboard.

Good brands to look for in the United States include Allen and Rodgers, the two most common makes, as well as less-common European models like Johannus, Galanti, Ahlborn-Galanti, or Viscount. Both Rodgers and Allen vary in tone quality depending on the year, but Allens are built like a tank and can be repaired multiple times. Galanti/Ahlborn-Galanti instruments sound nice but are cheaply built and prone to electronics issues. For smaller instruments, Conn organs are not bad but most of them are home organs and are over 40 years old. Avoid at all costs Lowrey and Hammond organs. Most Baldwin organs are likewise not worth the effort.

If you want a good used pipe organ, it will cost much more to ship and install it, but will last longer overall. Try the Organ Clearing House in Massachusetts.
A local Presbyterian church used a Baldwin while their big 88 rank real organ was being built.

It did not sound too bad for a electronic, but by the time the real organ was installed and voiced the Baldwin was ready to be scrapped.

Actually my parish has had trouble with the Pipe Organ Clearing House. We got a small organ from them and it is being built by just one man. His truck and tools were stolen about a month ago. And all progress on the organ is frozen. I have been looking back and seeing a paper bag in an otherwise empty swell box.

And we still get by on our old Rogers. 😦
 
Thank you for the clarification. I thought it was a Christian hymn. I don’t use it myself, by I do use the Breastplate sometimes.

Nice post.

I do not think any particular music is a problem as long as it is not an immersion in one thing, at least for the average parishioner. When visiting, the only time I come away disappointed in the music is when it is all one thing or another. I can see why folks get sick and tired of contemporary music (we all know the composers) when that seems to be all they hear week in/week out. I only mention that because I think that is the most common form of one-note music today. I do not think a few people disliking some songs that are more “high brow,” as you say, would be an issue unless that is all they hear.

I really do believe variety is the key for most parishioners. For me, that means almost all new music I have introduced has been on the more traditional side to help keep the balance even, as we had pretty much sunk into a one genre slump. It seems to be working over the years pretty well. I wish we didn’t have to rely so heavily on guitars. Over the years we have had two pianists that have come and gone. We just don’t have the talent in our parish, at least that is willing to play.
For years now and over three choir directors, our parish has used a mixture of traditional hymns and OCP/GIA slop. Sometimes the hymns are neglected more but they always make a slight comeback, probably on the word of our pastor who likes such a mix. The mixes always leave a bad taste in my mouth. There is never one Mass in which we can sing nice music and leave out the slop. We always have to have at least one or two saccharine, banal, weak-theology or happy-clappy songs inserted in the liturgy to keep everyone happy. It’s really unfortunate, but I sing with gusto whatever is put in front of me, in a spirit of obedience.

As pertains to instruments, it is clear that the documents which purported to ban or prescribe particular instruments are essentially no longer in force, given the widespread decisions of ordinaries and parishes everywhere. Clearly if one command remains, it is to give the organ pride of place, and that is more honored in the breach. I am not sure if a Reform of the Reform here is possible everywhere, but it must come from the grass roots, we must make clear our preferences and support, most of all, education and fostering appreciation in the younger generations for traditional liturgical instruments. No matter how much we like the organ or chant, we will not have any organ or chant unless people learn how to do it well, and that becomes a vicious circle, because the fewer people who can do it well, the fewer people who will hear and appreciate it, and the fewer people who support and foster its use in the future.
 
The mixes always leave a bad taste in my mouth. There is never one Mass in which we can sing nice music and leave out the slop. We always have to have at least one or two saccharine, banal, weak-theology or happy-clappy songs inserted in the liturgy to keep everyone happy…Clearly if one command remains, it is to give the organ pride of place, and that is more honored in the breach. I am not sure if a Reform of the Reform here is possible everywhere, but it must come from the grass roots, we must make clear our preferences and support, most of all, education and fostering appreciation in the younger generations for traditional liturgical instruments.
I can see the argument for one type of Music as opposed to another, if it was regular and in a parish that had a real division along lines of what music should be sung. I have never had a complaint though. I think most people understand that no one piece of music, or style of music will please all the people all the time. Opinion of what is “slop” varies too much, and you know we all have our own opinion.

I am glad, that even though we have no organist or organ in our parish, we gave a substantial sum from our parish to build one of the best pipe organs ever built in our new cathedral, the Opus XIX.

opusxix.org/index.html
 
for those in the United States I haven’t seen this discussed yet

but
While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be admitted into divine worship in the Dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, in so far as these are truly suitable for sacred use, or can be made suitable.
GIRM 393

so trumpets percussion even guitars can be suitable for the mass assuming that it is part of a longstanding local usage. For example a parish could have a youth mass that has been going on for a few years now and they have guitar at it. the Church may consider this a longstanding usage and if it used in a sacred way is ok. I don’t like guitar masses, but there is nothing in the GIRM at-least for the united states that ban them.
 
for those in the United States I haven’t seen this discussed yet

but

GIRM 393

so trumpets percussion even guitars can be suitable for the mass assuming that it is part of a longstanding local usage. For example a parish could have a youth mass that has been going on for a few years now and they have guitar at it. the Church may consider this a longstanding usage and if it used in a sacred way is ok. I don’t like guitar masses, but there is nothing in the GIRM at-least for the united states that ban them.
thank-you, people skip over the “longstanding use and local custom”
 
Here’s all of GIRM 393:
"393. Bearing in mind the important place that singing has in a celebration as a necessary or integral part of the Liturgy,[152] all musical settings of the texts for the people’s responses and acclamations in the Order of Mass and for special rites that occur in the course of the liturgical year must be submitted to the Secretariat for the Liturgy of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for review and approval prior to publication.

While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt."​

I guess the most interesting phrase is " provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.". This suggests that some instuments would not be considered apt, or suitable, and cannot be rendered suitable. What might those be? Let’s say a bishop thought that electric guitar is not suitable. What could someone suggest doing to it to render it suitable? Why are some instruments NOT considered suitable? Because they don’t enhance the reverence of the Mass, or they are distracting?
 
Dave,

I recall many years ago, hearing “morning has broken” at a folk mass at my future wife’s parish. I completely lost my train of thought. I couldn’t help but wonder if the acoustic guitarist would segue into moon shadow next. Or maybe play some Van Morrison? It led to us seriously discussing (quite often) our spiritual needs regarding the Liturgy. Nuff said.

I have played guitar for over 30 years. I love the instrument. Yet, I still can’t in any way shape or form understand how this this instrument can be “set apart” for sacred use. It may simply be my weakness. But it is what it is…
Cat Stevens chose to sing a hymm already in existance. A very nice one, at that. He did not write the song.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Has_Broken#Origins
The hymn originally appeared in the second edition of Songs of Praise (published in 1931), to the tune “Bunessan”, composed in the Scottish Highlands. In Songs of Praise Discussed, the editor, Percy Dearmer, explains that as there was need for a hymn to give thanks for each day, English poet and children’s author Eleanor Farjeon had been “asked to make a poem to fit the lovely Scottish tune”. A slight variation on the original hymn, also written by Eleanor Farjeon, can be found in the form of a poem contributed to the anthology Children’s Bells, under Farjeon’s new title, “A Morning Song (For the First Day of Spring)”, published by Oxford University Press in 1957.
 
I guess the most interesting phrase is " provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.". This suggests that some instuments would not be considered apt, or suitable, and cannot be rendered suitable. What might those be? Let’s say a bishop thought that electric guitar is not suitable. What could someone suggest doing to it to render it suitable? Why are some instruments NOT considered suitable? Because they don’t enhance the reverence of the Mass, or they are distracting?
I can’t think of any way a slide whistle could be rendered suitable. youtube.com/watch?v=WgGTdZT1dgA
 
I’m sure some of you folks are trying be helpful. So thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
I guess the most interesting phrase is " provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.". This suggests that some instuments would not be considered apt, or suitable, and cannot be rendered suitable. What might those be? Let’s say a bishop thought that electric guitar is not suitable. What could someone suggest doing to it to render it suitable? Why are some instruments NOT considered suitable? Because they don’t enhance the reverence of the Mass, or they are distracting?
I know that one of the biggest criticisms or praises of this from various church musicians I work with is that it is ambiguous. For example, what one person considers “truly apt” for sacred use, may not be considered such by another. It leaves the door open. For converts to the faith from a more evangelical or charismatic denominations, they have a religious music tradition which uses a lot of instrumentation, style of performance and composition that would be completely ok for use to them in a liturgical setting because they were used to hearing it at their Protestant services. For a cradle Catholic who has never heard that kind of music or instrumentation at mass, it would sound completely inappropriate and to some others borderline sacrilegious.

As a person who was brought up in the 80s and 90s with a lot of leftover folk-like hymns, some traditional hymns, the guitar, piano and organ, I personally never felt completely comfortable with a guitar at mass even though our parish did have some masses with them. When they started doing the teen masses at my church with complete bands, that totally threw me for a loop and sounded way too secular for me. Yes, I know strange for a teen and a young adult. For a number of years into my 20s it would even cause a physical reaction manifested through nausea and anxiety (anxiety mostly due to the loudness of the music ) and every time I’d attend a mass like that, I’d end up in the bathroom. I ended up just not attending a mass that had that kind of music until I was able to get the nausea and anxiety under control. Now, if I ever have to do it, I know how to block it all out.

I do think that many kinds of instruments, including the voice, can be rendered appropriate. I’ve been a proponent of that for a while. It goes way back when the Church asked composers to render polyphony appropriate for liturgy and it eventually was, after being banned by the Church by a few popes.

My particular instrument of expertise is the voice. I personally believe there are certain ways of using the voice to render it appropriate for liturgy and will do my best to make it happen. Full-blown operatic singing is not appropriate for mass, no matter how much I can and love singing that way. That style was purely developed for secular singing. There is a difference with the singing style of the Verdi “Requiem”, for instance, and the Faure “Requiem”. The former is all about passionate singing. You can’t sing it any other way. The latter is more “contained”, not filled with unbridled passion in the singing style. If you sing it like the Verdi, it would sound ridiculous.

Most of liturgical music does not call for operatic singing, anyway, and the style doesn’t sound as good in the vocal range of most hymns. You also shouldn’t sing like that when chanting and should try to employ more of a straight tone voice or a voice with less vibrato. Classical vocal training is important to understand the differences in style just as classical training of any instrument is important.

In their pure forms, pop, rock, Broadway style and other kinds of belting and chest voice singing also really isn’t appropriate because those were also meant for secular singing. Many people who have untrained. natural voices, especially when you get the person to stop trying to sing like the singers on popular music stations, from musicals or operas, actually have beautiful, pure sounds. It may be raw, but it can sound lovely in a choir or even as a cantor if a singer has a particularly natural beautiful voice.

With other instruments and compositional styles, I think almost any instrument can be used as long as they do things with the instrument to make it sound as little like the popular and other secular music going on at the time, whether that is opera, broadway, pop, country, etc. I personally feel that if it sounds like you can take it out, change the words and put in on a station without anyone think that it might sound like it came from a liturgy, then maybe we should rethink about using it OR try to render it “apt” for liturgical use, whether that is changing the way you use your voice, changing the composition itself or playing the instrument a different way to make it happen.

I say this as someone who prefers the organ (at least a well-played organ) at mass. I have heard other instruments played beautifully and appropriately at mass, including a classical guitar, which changed my mind about no guitars at mass. (Unfortunately, most guitars I’ve heard at mass doesn’t like the person I worked with. He was up there with all the best organists I’ve worked with.)
 
I can see the argument for one type of Music as opposed to another, if it was regular and in a parish that had a real division along lines of what music should be sung. I have never had a complaint though. I think most people understand that no one piece of music, or style of music will please all the people all the time. Opinion of what is “slop” varies too much, and you know we all have our own opinion.

I am glad, that even though we have no organist or organ in our parish, we gave a substantial sum from our parish to build one of the best pipe organs ever built in our new cathedral, the Opus XIX.

opusxix.org/index.html
In practice, I’m happy to have a “mixture” - mainly because it’s better than ALL folksy and/or rocky. If I attend a Mass, at my own or another parish, and hear just one hymn from the traditional repertoire, I’m happy.

Again, in practice we must accept that in any typical congregation there will be regular parishioners who strongly prefer one style and are hostile to another, and while others have exactly the opposite opinion, and the music is important to all of them. To give the whole Mass to one style will offend a large part of the congregation, and they will leave grumbling either “I can’t stand that modern slop” or “I can’t stand that old stuff”.

That’s mixing styles in practice, in theory I suggest:
  • There are certainly some high quality modern hymns and Mass settings, written for congregational singing. They can be easily mixed with traditional hymns, and even complement them.
  • We can also mix styles if we avoid extremes. For instance, one Mass could have Hail Redeemer King Divine and also* I will never forget you*, but not Hail True Body and Shine Jesus Shine.
  • One principle I have learned in these CAF discussions is that there are technical differences between a “song” composed for a soloist and and a “hymn” written for a congregation. This came out of a thread which discussed why some music is too difficult to sing. I wish we could avoid modern “songs” altogether. They are just as inappropriate as having the congregation singing an operatic Ave Maria. I have found this so valuable in thinking about what is wrong with some music - it’s not because it’s new, but because it’s not for communal singing.
These liturgical music threads are always interesting! We seem to go over a lot of the same stuff each time, but I keep learning, and I enjoy discussing one of my favourite topics. (While I long for the day I can put some of it into practice in my own parish…).
 
A local Presbyterian church used a Baldwin while their big 88 rank real organ was being built.

It did not sound too bad for a electronic, but by the time the real organ was installed and voiced the Baldwin was ready to be scrapped.

Actually my parish has had trouble with the Pipe Organ Clearing House. We got a small organ from them and it is being built by just one man. His truck and tools were stolen about a month ago. And all progress on the organ is frozen. I have been looking back and seeing a paper bag in an otherwise empty swell box.

And we still get by on our old Rogers. 😦
The Clearing House does not install organs, but only removes and sells them. It sounds like the problem is with your organ builder.

Old Baldwins from the 1940’s-60’s were unremarkable and typical of instruments of their time. By the 1970’s and 80’s, some of their solid-state organs were quite good and others were amazingly poor. By the early 90’s the brand had been sold to an Italian firm in competition with Galanti, and the last Baldwin models were shrill, tinny import instruments.

Rodgers organs, like Allen, are generally quite dependable.
 
thank-you, people skip over the “longstanding use and local custom”
But how does something ever enter into “longstanding use and local custom?” Taken literally, wouldn’t that limit us to the lyre and the harp? Or beating on rocks with sticks?

.
 
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