Instruments to be used at mass

[DaveBj]

But how does something ever enter into “longstanding use and local custom?” Taken literally, wouldn’t that limit us to the lyre and the harp? Or beating on rocks with sticks?

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Exactly. After all, there was once a time when the pipe organ itself was an innovation.

 

[27lw]

I’m trying to think if non-melodic percussion (“beating on rocks and sticks”) was ever used for a Christian religious service of any kind before the 1960s/70s. I can’t think of any, except for maybe special-effect strepitus on Good Friday. : ) Maybe others on the forum can?

Part of the reason why the pipe organ is considered to have “pride of place”, I believe, is that is that it is similar to the human voice, in that it makes sound by air moving through pipes (like our “windpipes”).
And we all know the connection between breath and spirit, I bet? : )

 

[Evan]

I’m trying to think if non-melodic percussion (“beating on rocks and sticks”) was ever used for a Christian religious service of any kind before the 1960s/70s. I can’t think of any, except for maybe special-effect strepitus on Good Friday. : ) Maybe others on the forum can?

Part of the reason why the pipe organ is considered to have “pride of place”, I believe, is that is that it is similar to the human voice, in that it makes sound by air moving through pipes (like our “windpipes”).
And we all know the connection between breath and spirit, I bet? : )

Yeah, like brass, like woodwinds. But I’ve always heard the violin and strings sounded more like a human voice.

 

[Sarabande]

Yeah, like brass, like woodwinds. But I’ve always heard the violin and strings sounded more like a human voice.

Yes, the organ has often been compared to that of the voice, along with the sounds of the violin. There are certain works where you sometimes can’t differentiate the human voice from the sounds of the violin, especially when the human voice is singing on a pure vowel sound, without any words. I remember hearing a piece like that. The voice took turns with the violin and it was sometimes very difficult to tell which was which.

I don’t have the work by Benedict XVI (then Cardinal Ratzinger) on hand which went into detail about this, but an historical reason for the organ having pride of place was that it was considered the “voice of the cosmos”… meaning the voice of God. The Church considered it’s liturgy representing all of the cosmos. When hymns of praise were to be played, it had to be in “organum”, meaning representing, the earth, moon, stars, sun, birds, trees, etc. all singing at once. (For voice music geeks, like myself, not chanting organum… which is a lot of fun, btw ) The organ became that cosmic instrument. It could do so much more with just one instrument which would need several other instruments to achieve the same effect. When the organ played, it was to represent God speaking. It became an “other-worldly” instrument… the instrument of the Church. In the very early days of the Church, the Byzantium rulers would also use an organ whenever they spoke. It was believed that emperors, kings, rulers, etc. were divinely ordained, so when they spoke, the organ represented that all of the cosmos was also speaking. The Church adopted this practice by incorporating the organ into its liturgy, to represent that God was there and ruled over everyone. When the Church spoke through the organ during the liturgy, they were also showing the divinely chosen rulers that God and the Church were above them.

 

[andrewstx]

Yeah, like brass, like woodwinds. But I’ve always heard the violin and strings sounded more like a human voice.

Especially the Vox Humana stop on a pipe organ.

 

[clem456]

I’m trying to think if non-melodic percussion (“beating on rocks and sticks”) was ever used for a Christian religious service of any kind before the 1960s/70s. I can’t think of any, except for maybe special-effect strepitus on Good Friday. : ) Maybe others on the forum can?

I can’t either, but I must admit that I live in the 20th century, and am a white American of Northern European descent. Perhaps someone from prior centuries, or from another culture, has had a different experience of percussion than I.

 

[pnewton]

I can’t either, but I must admit that I live in the 20th century, and am a white American of Northern European descent. Perhaps someone from prior centuries, or from another culture, has had a different experience of percussion than I.

The Matachines dates back for centuries and comes from the time of Spanish rule in the New World. We still have them in our parish to this day.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

NO GUITARS, DEFINITELY NO DRUM-SET (HATE THE SYMBOL CLASHING!!!),
but what Church needs more of are more elegant instruments, piano, cello, violin,
flute (depending on the music), why even the soft playing of the trumpet in songs
such as Noel, but none of that stupid K-Love Modernized HIP type Christian stuff** ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !**** **
(Emphatically calling out to NOBODY) Get with the program people, mass is an an-
cient and sacred celebration dedicated to our Lord Jesus Christ, NOT A CONCERT **! ! ! :banghead:

**

Organ is delightful too!
​

 

[agw123]

NO GUITARS, DEFINITELY NO DRUM-SET (HATE THE SYMBOL CLASHING!!!),
but what Church needs more of are more elegant instruments, piano, cello, violin,
flute (depending on the music), why even the soft playing of the trumpet in songs
such as Noel, but none of that stupid K-Love Modernized HIP type Christian stuff** ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

**(Emphatically calling out to NOBODY) Get with the program people, mass is an an-
cient and sacred celebration dedicated to our Lord Jesus Christ, NOT A CONCERT **! ! !

**

Again, what is wrong with a guitar, esp an acoustic one. No one will be playing like Hendrix…

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Again, what is wrong with a guitar, esp an acoustic one. No one will be playing like Hendrix…

Perhaps I’m being a little too nit-picky there, but I really don’t want to allow much room for the musicians to work in.
Play more traditional church music or don’t play at all! :nunchuk:
I actually did attend a mass on the Assumption of our Lady Mary, no music, and it was actually nice, believe it or not.

 

[clem456]

The Matachines dates back for centuries and comes from the time of Spanish rule in the New World. We still have them in our parish to this day.

I looked up Matachines and the picture below appeared. We have this in our own parish, I just had never heard the word used.
On the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe our Hispanic parishioners have a long (like 15 miles) procession dressed in these native costumes. They lead a procession before Mass with the statue of Our Lady. Bass drums, shakers, toms, clickers, dancing. It is awesome.

 

[Razanir]

NO GUITARS, DEFINITELY NO DRUM-SET (HATE THE SYMBOL CLASHING!!!),
but what Church needs more of are more elegant instruments, piano, cello, violin,
flute (depending on the music), why even the soft playing of the trumpet in songs
such as Noel, but none of that stupid K-Love Modernized HIP type Christian stuff** ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !**** **
(Emphatically calling out to NOBODY) Get with the program people, mass is an an-
cient and sacred celebration dedicated to our Lord Jesus Christ, NOT A CONCERT **! ! ! :banghead:

**

Organ is delightful too!
​

I think you’re being too quick to hate the guitar. What if it really is someone strumming along on an acoustic guitar. Not all guitar music is electric guitar solos.

Also, one of my favorite songs we’ve sang in choir (as a reflection hymn after Mass) I later heard on K-Love. (“This Is The Air I Breathe” by Mercy Me)

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I think you’re being too quick to hate the guitar. What if it really is someone strumming along on an acoustic guitar. Not all guitar music is electric guitar solos.

Also, one of my favorite songs we’ve sang in choir (as a reflection hymn after Mass) I later heard on K-Love. (“This Is The Air I Breathe” by Mercy Me)

Maybe you’re right, but I’ve been kinda suffering in silence for too long at the church I’m
going, but the music appears to be changing, so I think I can relax a little now. Serious-
ly though, 1, 2, 3 Catholic churches in my area, music has been heartbreaking for me.
I like the music in the Cathedral of St. Jude
& St. Simon, BUT THAT’S SO FAR AWAY!

Modernized Style of Christian Music doesn’t belong in Church. If such
music leads people to Christ, HALLELUJAH, but keep it out of the
Celebration of the Eucharist, okay (speaking to *Nobody *again)?

 

[pnewton]

Perhaps I’m being a little too nit-picky there, but I really don’t want to allow much room for the musicians to work in.
Play more traditional church music or don’t play at all!

So, are you volunteering here or playing couch coach?

When Rome says we are to discontinue music at Mass (those without organists or choristers), then I will happily find something else to do with the time. Or when someone wants to take over, play the organ or do what it is they do.

 

[pnewton]

I looked up Matachines and the picture below appeared. We have this in our own parish, I just had never heard the word used.
On the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe our Hispanic parishioners have a long (like 15 miles) procession dressed in these native costumes. They lead a procession before Mass with the statue of Our Lady. Bass drums, shakers, toms, clickers, dancing. It is awesome.

It is impressive, but it is only once a year. Yet we have people who work on this all year long to celebrate the Blessed Virgin every December.

 

[catholictiger]

NO GUITARS, DEFINITELY NO DRUM-SET (HATE THE SYMBOL CLASHING!!!),
but what Church needs more of are more elegant instruments, piano, cello, violin,
flute (depending on the music), why even the soft playing of the trumpet in songs
such as Noel, but none of that stupid K-Love Modernized HIP type Christian stuff** ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !**** **
(Emphatically calling out to NOBODY) Get with the program people, mass is an an-
cient and sacred celebration dedicated to our Lord Jesus Christ, NOT A CONCERT **! ! ! :banghead:

**

Organ is delightful too!
​

you have a right to your opinion but at-least in the united states there is nothing clearly stated in the GIRM that says not guitars or even drum sets. I agree with your opinion but I’m just trying to stick with what is said in the GIRM.

 

[Seaoctopus]

I realize this may be a bit flippant but I would attend a tuba mass

 

[Razanir]

Maybe you’re right, but I’ve been kinda suffering in silence for too long at the church I’m
going, but the music appears to be changing, so I think I can relax a little now. Serious-
ly though, 1, 2, 3 Catholic churches in my area, music has been heartbreaking for me.
I like the music in the Cathedral of St. Jude
& St. Simon, BUT THAT’S SO FAR AWAY!

Modernized Style of Christian Music doesn’t belong in Church. If such
music leads people to Christ, HALLELUJAH, but keep it out of the
Celebration of the Eucharist, okay (speaking to *Nobody *again)?

Out of question, have you heard the song? (“This Is The Air I Breathe”) It’s actually quite nice, as far as Christian pop goes. And I personally think it’s quite appropriate for Mass. But to each his own, I suppose.

I realize this may be a bit flippant but I would attend a tuba mass

:hug3:

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Out of question, have you heard the song? (“This Is The Air I Breathe”) It’s actually quite nice, as far as Christian pop goes. And I personally think it’s quite appropriate for Mass. But to each his own, I suppose.

It’s a nice song, but if I heard that in a church (especially during mass), a small part of me would die inside. :stretcher:

 

[Horacio]

I have no intention of arguing that someone somewhere may not be able to utilize the acoustic guitar in the Liturgy. To associate it differently as I - and deem it as something appropriate.

It’s interesting you bring up the electric guitar.

I am quite confident I I have enough God given ability and imagination to accompany an organ or string section with one of my electric guitars (and effects processors) so very very few could ever identify it as anything other than what I desired the instrument to ‘appear’ to sound like. (If the instrument was hidden in a choir loft. It would be quite helpful.) I could not do this as a lead instrument. But the instrument could add some very appropriate voicing’s for augmentation. It’s possible this may come into play for some future composers. Who knows.

Great posting. Some have a very superficial understanding of musical instruments and they have been conditioned by some sources to lash out at certain things.