Insulted

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Monica37

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Ok, I have heard the Church insulted one too many times. I am really tired of it. In a conversation it gets brought up in a negative way for no apparent reason. Making fun of Communion, then “bad Catholic girls”, etc. We’ve all heard it. So I try not to bring the conversation down, but I do say that it offends me. Then I get the standard, "don’t worry, I believe in the same God you do, just not your Pope, who really isn’t part of the church anyway, but they don’t teach you that in catechism (smile).’ He was a non-Catholic. Still not wanting to bring the conversation to a fight, I say, I’m still offended, but will not discuss this here.

So here is my question to ya’ll. Do you just let it go with informing the person that you are offended or do you fight back? I am not a big fan of confrontation and am still studying my faith to really learn it. (I did have 2 Jehovah’s Witnesses walk away from me after I started explaining why I believe that the Church is the One True Church instituted by Christ and how the gates of hell shall not prevail against Her). How do ya’ll handle insults to the Church. I am torn. On the one hand, I feel that I should just state my feelings then pray for the person, but on the other hand I feel we are all called to defend the Church in such instances.
 
Maybe Sr. Emmerich can help:
Greatest Mystic of Our Time: Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich
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My favorite passage in the life of Emmerich is when Brentano said to her that he found more faith and holiness in the Protestant faiths than in the Catholic Church, but she said nothing. That night her Guardian Angel scolded her for not defending the faith. The next time she met him she said:
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“Pilgrim, If the Catholic Church was reduced to only one person, and that person was the Holy Father, it would still be the one and only Church of Christ on earth.”
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👍

And if they grumble against the Pope, you might remind them about what happened when Aaron and Miriam grumbled against Moses (Numbers 12), and that the authority of Moses was passed on until the time of Christ (Matthew 23); just as the authority of Peter will be passed on until the Second Coming of Christ.
 
don’t worry, I believe in the same God you do, just not your Pope, who really isn’t part of the church anyway, but they don’t teach you that in catechism (smile).’
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Well I used to let these pass and just go about my day thinking the person is a dunce just out to be provocative, but I don’t any more. In this particular case I would offer some thanks out loud to be in the presence of Catechism expert, rare as they are, and ask for an explanation of something. Real Presence, abortion, use of birth control, Sacraments, whatever, and let them show you what they know about the CCC.

What you’ll always find is someone who hasn’t read it and is taking someone else’s word for what it contains, then wants to condemn you for what they think it does or doesn’t say. They want to hang the question around peripheral things like Popes instead of sticking to what Jesus commanded us to do. Eat His flesh? Master, these words are hard. Yes they are, so hard that thousands of people will leap right over them to get to such important matters as Popes in Catechisms.
 
if someone is being rude you either tell them “thats rude and hurtful” and walk away, or just walk away.

if they are promulgating false beliefs (like what that guy said about “your religion” and “the pope isnt part of your church”) then you give him a good steely stare and say “if you are NOT trying to start a fight, why are you lying about my religion?”

if you dont feel comfortable debating them (i never do) then you just say “obviously you have a rude attitude and are just picking a fight… since you cant be civil i dont want to talk to you anymore” and walk.

seriously
walk

if they apologize you can talk to them again, BUT if they bring up religion in that same circumstance you just stare at them and say “i thought you didnt want to pick a fight” or “oh, i am FAR too hurt by your earlier statements to let you get started on me again”
 
1 Peter 3:15 tells us to “Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence; and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame”.

You are going to come across people who misrepresent what the Catholic Church teaches. Question is, why are they doing this? Are they doing it from not knowing the real facts?, OR, are they doing it willfully because they just can’t stand the Church? Hopefully, it’s just not knowing the real facts.

You can have a discussion with people who just don’t know the facts. But the others, forget it!

Good luck, and God Bless.
 
how would you react if you were Black, or Polish, or Asian, and your friends deliberately made insulting jokes and comments about Blacks, Pollacks, or Asians in your presence?

Is somehow insulting someone’s religion any more acceptable? If you sit there and take the insults in silence, you are agreeing with what is said. Anti-Catholicism is the last refuge of the pseudo-intellectual, and the last acceptable prejudice, and one of the surest indicators of ignorance.
 
Where falsehood is being spoken, correct it with the truth, unless you have certainty that you will not be heard. You’re not bound to toss pearls before swine.

Otherwise, be perfect as the Father is perfect, slow to take offense and quick to forgive, raining goodness on the just and the unjust alike. This is how the world will know we belong to God, and are not just one more “group” among the other groups. Forgiving does not mean excusing, but rather wishing good on the offender, rather than evil. Love as St. Paul describes, patient, kind, never rude, rejoicing in the truth, and so on.

When our enemies tempt us, I think it is always best to go back to the basics.
 
Monica37 said:
Do you just let it go with informing the person that you are offended or do you fight back?
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What’s that old quotation:
“All that is needed for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing”

That pretty much explains it. Remember that by fighting back, you are not just speaking for yourself but for all the other sheep out there that don’t have the ability to speak against these issues.
 
I have been subject to nonstop harassment from my coworker since my conversion this year. He is upset that I refused to join his Freemason lodge after I found out Catholics were forbidden to join them. I was literally ready to turn in my application and everything. To add some insult to injury, I joined the Knights of Columbus and am quite active with it.

He fancies himself an intellectual so he spends his time thinking of hypothetical questions with the hopes that I will turn away from the Church. When that doesn’t work, he tries to anger me by saying things like “I want to debate the Pope because I know I would win.”

I understand the need to defend the faith but there are just some people who it is pointless to defend against. I used to give an answer to his questions but now I just ignore him.
 
Monica37 said:
Ok, I have heard the Church insulted one too many times. I am really tired of it. In a conversation it gets brought up in a negative way for no apparent reason. Making fun of Communion, then “bad Catholic girls”, etc. We’ve all heard it. So I try not to bring the conversation down, but I do say that it offends me. Then I get the standard, "don’t worry, I believe in the same God you do, just not your Pope, who really isn’t part of the church anyway, but they don’t teach you that in catechism (smile).’ He was a non-Catholic. Still not wanting to bring the conversation to a fight, I say, I’m still offended, but will not discuss this here.

So here is my question to ya’ll. Do you just let it go with informing the person that you are offended or do you fight back? I am not a big fan of confrontation and am still studying my faith to really learn it. (I did have 2 Jehovah’s Witnesses walk away from me after I started explaining why I believe that the Church is the One True Church instituted by Christ and how the gates of hell shall not prevail against Her). How do ya’ll handle insults to the Church. I am torn. On the one hand, I feel that I should just state my feelings then pray for the person, but on the other hand I feel we are all called to defend the Church in such instances.
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Fear not. I too know exactly what you are going through. In my family I have relatives who have become “Protestants and Born Agains”. We had a incident where my Gradfather passed away and a battle was done about the Funeral. We wanted to have a Funeral Mass. But World War III erupted. They mentioned that he converted he became a “Born Again”. Believe me it was ugly. Also, at work at the different jobs that I had had. I had been confronted and cornered about my Catholic Faith as “Man Made Religion” or “I am a confused young person.” The latter was from a Jehova Witness". I also was discurage when talking about the grief and hardship by talking to a friend who was a Priest. "He gave me a response, “I am sick of of hearing about So So!” This is when I begun my task to teach myself apologetics. Believe it or not, I got my first book about Catholic Apologetics in “Family Christian Bookstores” “What Catholics Really Believe”. Also, I recieved in the mail a solicitation from “New Oxford Review”. This helped to deepen and stregthen my faith. By subscribing to “The New Oxford Review” I was put on other subscription lists, Ignatious Press, Tann Books, Catolic Answers, Etc. I began to learn about my faith and other denominations. What is really helpful is the founder of this forum Karl Keeting and Catholic Answers.

Click on this link catholic.com/library/faith_tracts.asp

Click on Non Catholic Groups, Anti Catholic Groups, Scripture and Tradition and Church and Papacy. You will find what you are looking for in answers to defend the Catholic Faith.

Also here is another good site scripturecatholic.com/ A former Freemason tells all about the history of the Catholic Church. Also, the Protestant denominations also condem Freemasonary too. He will explain it as well. Also, he gives a good outling of who started the different Protestants denominations. scripturecatholic.com/history.html

Lastly, use the internet to look up information on Catholic Apologetics. The more you learn and read. You will have a intelligent discussion and you will have them walking away thinking.
 
Yes I would defend my faith. I have on occasion done this with my neighbor and baptist cousins. And with the Mormons and Jehovah W’s. I wrote a lengthy email to my cousin about several points he had made about our faith…he never got back to me. JW’s don’t come to my door anymore, and either do the Mormon boys. I got into a lengthy discussion about the end times with my neighbor and somehow she doesn’t bring up religion anymore. I guess they know if they bring up my faith they’re going to get an ear full from me, so they don’t do it. Now some don’t back down so easily, but I don’t either.
 
I say a small prayer to the Blessed Mother for them, a sincere prayer, not a hypocritical Protestant “I’ll pray for you” prayer but a real petition that God lead them to the fullness of the faith. Then I try (and often fail) to thank God for humbling me through their harsh words, and try to remember the blasphemies Our Lord suffered in his Passion.

Of course often I’ll fail in this, often I’ll just get angry, but that above is what I try to do.

I generally don’t get into an argument with them because I’m usually hurt and angry (though I don’t necessarily show it) and I know that if I argue with them in that state I’ll probably do more harm to the faith than good.

Then there are times when I’m talking with a Protestant about religion (not argumentatively but just both of us chatting friendly) and they just say “well I don’t believe in that stuff myself but I know we both follow Christ and that’s the really important thing”, and that makes me :D, and I try to think the same of them (even if they’re wrong :p).
 
I feel similarly when my idiot brother-in-law says that at least his current marriage (his 2nd) has a “chance” or working out because at least this time he married a Catholic. This comes after I, the token protestant in the family have been married to his Catholic sister-in-law for 21 years
 
Monica37 said:
Ok, I have heard the Church insulted one too many times. I am really tired of it. In a conversation it gets brought up in a negative way for no apparent reason. Making fun of Communion, then “bad Catholic girls”, etc. We’ve all heard it. So I try not to bring the conversation down, but I do say that it offends me. Then I get the standard, "don’t worry, I believe in the same God you do, just not your Pope, who really isn’t part of the church anyway, but they don’t teach you that in catechism (smile).’ He was a non-Catholic. Still not wanting to bring the conversation to a fight, I say, I’m still offended, but will not discuss this here.

So here is my question to ya’ll. Do you just let it go with informing the person that you are offended or do you fight back? I am not a big fan of confrontation and am still studying my faith to really learn it. (I did have 2 Jehovah’s Witnesses walk away from me after I started explaining why I believe that the Church is the One True Church instituted by Christ and how the gates of hell shall not prevail against Her). How do ya’ll handle insults to the Church. I am torn. On the one hand, I feel that I should just state my feelings then pray for the person, but on the other hand I feel we are all called to defend the Church in such instances.
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It depends on what they’re doing. If they are interested in a serious discussion about Catholic doctrine and why I think it is right and they disagree, then I’ll usually argue against their point-of-view, trying to point out why I think they’re incorrect. I’ve never had problems with JWs or Mormons (I feel left out 🙂 ). The people I’ve had run ins are primarily are Funda-gelical Bible thumpers (I could probably come up with a lot more colorful descriptions for them, but I don’t want to get banned). With them, it is especially trying because they have their foolish and moronic arguments based on supposition and junk history, but they are stuck in them and, even when you present them with facts, it’s like trying to kick against the bricks.

Then they start to hurl insults against the Church (i.e. the “Whore of Babylon” BS) and it gets me so mad you wouldn’t believe. I mean, one guy, I told him I felt punching him (I didn’t, but I sure felt like it). It is very infuriating and I really don’t know what to say. The best option is probably just walk away and have as little as possible to do with them. Of course, that is easier said than done.

When Protestants insult the Church, it hits me like someone insulting my mother–worse actually, because my mother certainly had some failings.
 
Thanks for your replies. I haven’t engaged in a religious discussion with this person since. I was under the apparently mistaken belief that when someone tells you you have offended them, you should step back and evaluate your comments or keep them to yourself out of courtesy, but I guess the rules on civility have changed. Honestly, I have a friend who is a devout Muslim and he is so very respectful of my religion even though he has told me he disagrees with it (I have respectfully told him the same). The majority of insults and abuse that I have experienced is from other Christian religions which I find so sad.
I think this person has some ill will toward what he thinks the church teaches (he said politics, I think probably teachings on homosexuality, birth control, etc). I do not think he understands the teachings but I also do not think he is willing to have a discussion about it.
Thanks again!
 
I’ve had this problem as well. When I was in college, I was part of small group prepping for a presentation to the class. We met in one of the members’ dorms, who had Bible quotations all over her walls. I immediately knew I had found a kindred sprit, and also that the rest of my group were atheists the minute they they started arguing with both of us about the existence of God and other related issues. I really got mad when one of them said, “Catholics are f***ed up.” We were having a very civil discussion until that bomb was dropped. We were not too productive that night.

Then there’s my coworkers. Most atheists, one Muslim, and American Indian and a Jew. Ironically, the Jewsish woman is actually the one who most understands what I’m talking about. We can have religious discussions while staying calm. It’s the atheists who I’ve gotten into arguments with. From saying Islam was around first, and that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, to the Immaculate Conception referring to Jesus, it’s been interesting.

I do my best to stay calm and not get personal and insulting, but it can be hard.
 
Arguing with atheists is generally a waste of time; they’re sad.

Some atheists - and this is a fairly small minority - really are openminded and really would convert if they understood the reasons for faith. Those are the ones you should talk to. But most of them are spoiled brats who don’t want to make sacrifices; just try to find the good ones.

btw sorry if I sounded too harsh saying “spoiled brats” but frankly that’s true in a lot of cases; I was in that boat before, and I have a feeling a lot of you on the Traditional Catholicism board were too, so I’m not completely talking out of my rear-end here.
 
puzzleannie said:
how would you react if you were Black, or Polish, or Asian, and your friends deliberately made insulting jokes and comments about Blacks, Pollacks, or Asians in your presence?

Is somehow insulting someone’s religion any more acceptable? If you sit there and take the insults in silence, you are agreeing with what is said. Anti-Catholicism is the last refuge of the pseudo-intellectual, and the last acceptable prejudice, and one of the surest indicators of ignorance.
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I’m not sure about ignorance. Most anti-Catholics I’ve encountered have what they believe to be good reasons to be anti-Catholic. I’ve heard a few myths about Catholic history even from intelligent people I know. But we should always point out, accurately, when deliberate falsehoods are spread that insult the faith. Keeping silent does imply either that we don’t care or that it’s OK. And please don’t accept the idea that complaining leads to “free publicity” for anyone or any belief. If the Pope identifies a specific group and offers well considered criticism of some action taken by that group, is he giving them free publicity or somehow promoting them? We need to be specific, not vague, when we are insulted.

Peace,
Ed
 
Maybe some day all these hatefull attacks will stop and we’ll all be a big family, the Universal (Catholic) family. All Chistians and Non-Cristians are called to go to catholicscomehome.com.
 
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