Intellectual Property

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I don’t want to debate it. I just want to get Church statements regarding it. Any help?
 
A friend is questioning whether downloading MP3s is a sin. He does not believe in intellectual property, and my understanding is that the Church says intellectual property is a legitimate thing, so we would both like to see what the Church has to say about it.

I don’t want to discuss the MP3 issue. That’s a whole other thing. I just want to see what statements the Church has made on the legitimacy, justness, or lack thereof of intellectual property as a legal concept.
 
You shall not steal…
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The seventh commandment forbids unjustly taking or keeping the goods of one’s neighbor and wronging him in any way with respect to his goods. It commands justice and charity in the care of earthly goods and the fruits of men’s labor. For the sake of the common good, it requires respect for the universal destination of goods and respect for the right to private property. Christian life strives to order this world’s goods to God and to fraternal charity.
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Property is property. These days a lot of people like to justify “property” as being “material goods”… when it can encompass a lot more than that…
 
It is likely that someone who does not believe in intellectual property hasn’t the intellect to comprehend the issue. The sin of theft in this matter, therefore, would be only venial because he lacks the subjective material to render it mortal. :whistle:

So it’s not ok to steal a CD from a store but it’s OK to download copyrighted material from the Internet? Your friend is either a thief and a liar, or he is too stupid for words.
 
Actually, I think you’re mistaken on this. A person can make a pretty good case that “intellectual property” is not a valid category. It’s a lot harder to defend then you might think, when you really get into it. I don’t agree with those who reject it, personally, but they’re not necessarily stupid or immoral. In fact, I’d politely admonish you for making such hasty judgments of the inner (and so hidden) workings of people’s minds and hearts.

Now the law does protect a category known as intellectual property, and so we must obey that law. That’s clear, because even if intellectual property is not a morally necessary category, it is certainly not unjust to establish.

But my question really has nothing to do with any of this. My question is over what exactly the Church has to say about intellectual property. My understanding is that the Church does say that intellectual property is a morally necessary category - that is, it is not merely by virtue of the law that we must respect it, but by virtue of an innate moral reality, so that for example if one were to go to a place such as Thailand where no laws existed, one still must respect it. All I want is for those who are familiar with the Church’s teaching to show me the documents so I can read up more on it. They’re just not the easiest thing in the world to find if you don’t already know what they are, because while the Church has spoken on this, She hasn’t spoken very much.
 
Lazerlike42 said:
Actually, I think you’re mistaken on this. A person can make a pretty good case that “intellectual property” is not a valid category. It’s a lot harder to defend then you might think, when you really get into it. I don’t agree with those who reject it, personally, but they’re not necessarily stupid or immoral. In fact, I’d politely admonish you for making such hasty judgments of the inner (and so hidden) workings of people’s minds and hearts.

Now the law does protect a category known as intellectual property, and so we must obey that law. That’s clear, because even if intellectual property is not a morally necessary category, it is certainly not unjust to establish.

But my question really has nothing to do with any of this. My question is over what exactly the Church has to say about intellectual property. My understanding is that the Church does say that intellectual property is a morally necessary category - that is, it is not merely by virtue of the law that we must respect it, but by virtue of an innate moral reality, so that for example if one were to go to a place such as Thailand where no laws existed, one still must respect it. All I want is for those who are familiar with the Church’s teaching to show me the documents so I can read up more on it. They’re just not the easiest thing in the world to find if you don’t already know what they are, because while the Church has spoken on this, She hasn’t spoken very much.
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I don’t know of the exact documents on “intellectual property”… so if I’m not answering your question then I apologize.

This is a basic question of following the commandments, though. Was the “intellectual property” intended by the owner to be used for the benefit of all? If not, then this is considered stealing.

It’s like trying to define exactly what is “murder” for the 5th commandment…
Or trying to define exactly what is considered “adultery” for the 6th…
Do we really need to explicitly say things that should be inferred from a general statement?

If the property is intended to be private, or only to be used by those who pay for it, then that is where morality is defined.
What is the intention by the owner?

Edited to add some more quotes from the catechism…
Respect for the goods of others
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The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.191
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Even if it does not contradict the provisions of civil law, any form of unjustly taking and keeping the property of others is against the seventh commandment: thus, deliberate retention of goods lent or of objects lost; business fraud; paying unjust wages; forcing up prices by taking advantage of the ignorance or hardship of another.192
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Em_in_FL said:
I don’t know of the exact documents on “intellectual property”… so if I’m not answering your question then I apologize.

This is a basic question of following the commandments, though. Was the “intellectual property” intended by the owner to be used for the benefit of all? If not, then this is considered stealing.

It’s like trying to define exactly what is “murder” for the 5th commandment…
Or trying to define exactly what is considered “adultery” for the 6th…
Do we really need to explicitly say things that should be inferred from a general statement?

If the property is intended to be private, or only to be used by those who pay for it, then that is where morality is defined.
What is the intention by the owner?
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I agree that it ought to be a no-brainer for a devout Catholic person, at least in today’s society. The problem comes in when you consider that historically, this whole idea is rather new. People didn’t treat books like this in the past, for example. Then you get into situations like when the Boy Scouts tried to charge a royalty from everyone who sang “Happy Birthday to You” at parties because they owned the copyright on it. According to the definition you’ve provided, they were well within their moral rights to do that. That’s the thing with intellectual property - it seems a lot easier to deal with, define, and wrap your mind around at first than it does after you’ve started dealing with it for a little while. 🤷
 
Lazerlike42 said:
I don’t want to discuss the MP3 issue. That’s a whole other thing. I just want to see what statements the Church has made on the legitimacy, justness, or lack thereof of intellectual property as a legal concept.
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I couldn’t find any statement by the Church readily. But, I did find this article that alludes to church statements on IP:

papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=966681

Perhaps you can contact them for more information.

I also found this at EWTN:

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/STATMEDP.HTM
 
This you will find on the Bottom of USCCB web site

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops | 3211 4th Street, N.E., Washington DC 20017-1194 | (202) 541-3000 © USCCB. All rights reserved.

This you find on the bottom of PB 16’s ENCYCLICAL LETTER
DEUS CARITAS EST on the Vatican Web site
© Copyright 2005 - Libreria Editrice Vaticana

? so does the church believe in intellectual property?

I think so…

You need to follow the laws governing those copyrights which varies greatly according to the media and type of use.
 
Intellectual property is very important to the person who’s intellect is being violated. For example, in the business I’m in…what we ‘sell’ is our intellectual capital to clients who are asking for our insurance consulting services. As a broker, we do not handle the actual policies, or underwrite…but we offer intellectual capital…or consulting advice, so to speak. If someone were to break into our computers, and say…steal that advice…steal presentations, etc…that would be a violation of our rights…

It would classified as stealing. Downloading songs off the internet is not stealing intellectual property…that is actually taking songs that you did not pay for. But, I know many who use limewire…I’m surprised that website doesn’t get shut down…🤷
 
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