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Having scanned the recent posts on this forum, it doesn’t appear that anyone has posted about this already, but I think the topic does cut to the heart of the concept of Catholic social justice.
Has anyone seen the BBC news footage of the Intelligence Squared debate on the above proposition - that the Catholic Church is a force for good in the world?
If not, you can find the - edited - footage at www.intelligencesquared.com. There you will also find briefing notes on the issues relevant to both sides of the debate.
A few comments I would like to make on the debate itself before throwing the question out there for discussion (and no doubt opening up a giant can of worms in the process!).
Firstly, if I retained even a tenuous grip on my former faith, I think I would have been bitterly disappointed in the Catholic side of the debate. They didn’t mount a strong case at all, and they said very little of value - certainly nothing that would reassure any wavering Catholic of the efficacy and honour of their church. Their case amounted to little more than a dismissal of the criticisms - without a satisfactory answer - and a flat denial of the possibility that the church could be considered a harmful organisation. It was the emperor’s new clothes all over again.
As for the opposition, whilst I did think that Christopher Hitchens came across as a bit of a bully boy (which is his style, and unfortunately can detract from the validity of much of what he says) I felt particularly moved - almost to tears - by Stephen Fry’s speech. He made the most extraordinarily eloquent and impassioned plea for recognition of the harm done by the church - not only from the abuses to which it has historically turned a blind eye, but from the oppression and discrimination woven into the very fabric of its dogma. And it is important to note that at no stage did he attack faith itself - only the institution of the church.
So, on balance, when you weigh the good that has been done by those within the church against the harm that the church as an institution has either tacitly allowed or actively encouraged, I think the best that can be said is that the Catholic Church is a neutral entity.
So, what do others think? Is the Catholic Church a force for good in our world?
And if you think not, what could be done to make it so?
This kind of hysterical regurgitation of the Black Legend is a post reformation commonplace but is noteworthy not for what it includes but for what it does not.No
Abolish the Papacy and teach the bishops that acting as pimps for predatory priests & religious is not part of their job description (AFAIK, that is). Better still, bring them to trial for their crimes, bang them up, and throw the key. Catholicism is a disease that can be cured only by total abolition. Not that any other Church is much better. What was good enough for the Nazis at Nuremberg after the War is definitely good enough for these criminals - Hitler did at least not pretend that the Nazi Party was the One True Church; so the crimes of the Catholicism are worse, proportionately, than those of the men hanged or imprisoned at Nuremberg.
What’s Catholicism ever done of good, or of non-criminal things, that other people haven’t ? Only things that have precious little to do with what it is allegedly for - it wasn’t founded to be arty, so no defence by mentioning its art (much of which is hideous anyway) is relevant. Jesus didn’t say “Go, forth and found universities” either - he had different priorities. He wasn’t bothered about civilisation - unlike the CC. He “preach[ed] the good news of the Kingdom of God” - also unlike the CC. He and the CC have very little in common - and it shows. Boy, does it show !