Intelligent 11 year old says Mass is 'boring'

[Rose71]

My nephew is 11 years old and very bright. Since he was a baby, his father has brought him to Mass and his mother and I have tried to encourage him to take part and understand what is going on.

At the moment, he is constantly claiming he ‘knows all there is to know’ about God and the Bible, which means (in his words) “there is no point in going to church every week.”

I’ve explained to him that the Mass gives him a wonderful opportunity to take the time to pray and to listen to the readings, the Gospel and the sermon and most of all, the receive the Body of Christ. I’ve also suggetsed that it’s a time when he ought to be saying ‘thank you’ to God for all he has in his life, rather than expecting God to entertain him.

Sadly, none of his classmates attends Mass regularly and his ‘Catholic’ school taught him that Transubstantiation is a myth and that it’s better to do good deeds throughout the week than be awful and go to Mass on Sunday - as though that was the choice!

He’s got a very enquiring mind, but he’s been lead so much to believe that he’s soooo clever by his school that he appears to be without any shred of self-doubt when it comes to his view that the Mass is ‘all metaphorical’ and ‘there’s no point because it’s the same every week!’

I don’t want to squash his thirst for knowledge or his desire to learn and question, but I am running out of ideas for encouraging him to engage his brain in the study of the Gospel and to learn to value humility and thinking of others, as much as seeking praise for himself and always being ‘right’.

I love “The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything” but he is a bit young for that just yet. Are there any books or DVDs that will appeal to young boys who ask lots of questions, but are resolutely steadfast in the belief that they ‘know it all’?

I know I sound harsh - but the culture for relativism, secularism is particularly damaging to young boys like this who are seeking answers on the one hand, but on the other, are constantly being told how ‘brilliant’ their questions are without any values being placed on listening, self-control or humility.

 

[Xantippe]

My nephew is 11 years old and very bright. Since he was a baby, his father has brought him to Mass and his mother and I have tried to encourage him to take part and understand what is going on.

At the moment, he is constantly claiming he ‘knows all there is to know’ about God and the Bible, which means (in his words) “there is no point in going to church every week.”

I’ve explained to him that the Mass gives him a wonderful opportunity to take the time to pray and to listen to the readings, the Gospel and the sermon and most of all, the receive the Body of Christ. I’ve also suggetsed that it’s a time when he ought to be saying ‘thank you’ to God for all he has in his life, rather than expecting God to entertain him.

Sadly, none of his classmates attends Mass regularly and his ‘Catholic’ school taught him that Transubstantiation is a myth and that it’s better to do good deeds throughout the week than be awful and go to Mass on Sunday - as though that was the choice!

He’s got a very enquiring mind, but he’s been lead so much to believe that he’s soooo clever by his school that he appears to be without any shred of self-doubt when it comes to his view that the Mass is ‘all metaphorical’ and ‘there’s no point because it’s the same every week!’

I don’t want to squash his thirst for knowledge or his desire to learn and question, but I am running out of ideas for encouraging him to engage his brain in the study of the Gospel and to learn to value humility and thinking of others, as much as seeking praise for himself and always being ‘right’.

I love “The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything” but he is a bit young for that just yet. Are there any books or DVDs that will appeal to young boys who ask lots of questions, but are resolutely steadfast in the belief that they ‘know it all’?

I know I sound harsh - but the culture for relativism, secularism is particularly damaging to young boys like this who are seeking answers on the one hand, but on the other, are constantly being told how ‘brilliant’ their questions are without any values being placed on listening, self-control or humility.

How about engaging his mind? After Mass, ask him about the readings (particularly the Gospel and particularly any tricky bits) and ask him what it meant. Make him do the work. (You or the parents may want to have a look at the readings before Sunday to be on your toes.)

Also, make sure he has opportunities to serve others.

 

[Art321]

How about engaging his mind? After Mass, ask him about the readings (particularly the Gospel and particularly any tricky bits) and ask him what it meant. Make him do the work. (You or the parents may want to have a look at the readings before Sunday to be on your toes.)

Also, make sure he has opportunities to serve others.

Very good sound advice! Here’s another idea… how about taking him to a Latin Mass??
I’ve never been but have heard so many people saying how it emphasizes the mystery of the Traditions of the Mass! As well as more focus on the central theme of the eucharist!

 

[AFerri48]

I’m sure most 11 year olds find Mass to be boring. Just like a lot of kids find school to be boring. He probably views it as something he is simply being forced to do and may not understand the importance of it just yet.

I’m not sure what can be done to help this right now exactly, so just continue taking him to Mass with you. In a few years though he will be high school age, so try to make sure that he goes to a Catholic high school, as that may help him. It was during my high school years when I began taking my faith more seriously.

 

[jeannetherese]

You’ll find educational materials suitable for your nephew at the link below.
Two which I own and highly recommend (suitable for adults as well-your precocious nephew) are Know Your Mass which was created using a cartoon format and the more recently published Treasure and Tradition: The Ultimate Guide to the Latin Mass.
Either will help your nephew to dig deeper into the Mass.

May God bless you and your nephew.
Amen.

fraternitypublications.com/childrens.html

 

[GEddie]

Very good sound advice! Here’s another idea… how about taking him to a Latin Mass??
I’ve never been but have heard so many people saying how it emphasizes the mystery of the Traditions of the Mass! As well as more focus on the central theme of the eucharist!

Since he presumably knows no Latin, that would IMNAAHO only enforce the boredom factor by forcing him to listen to a strange language.

Just make sure (if you can) that if he is not yet confirmed, that he does CCD somewhere more “orthodox” than his school.

Boredom is a part of life and most kids don’t relate to the need for religion, but it will be learnt, if well-meaning adults don’t push him away from it.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Xantippe]

Very good sound advice! Here’s another idea… how about taking him to a Latin Mass??
I’ve never been but have heard so many people saying how it emphasizes the mystery of the Traditions of the Mass! As well as more focus on the central theme of the eucharist!

Yes. I also think part of the benefit of the TLM is that it can make you work harder.

Likewise, if he’s studying French in school and there’s a French Mass, take him there from time to time (that might not be feasible in your area, but for a US child doing Spanish in school, it would be very easy to find a Spanish Mass). Or make sure he has a chance to see the different Catholic churches within your area.

 

[EasterJoy]

It is perhaps time to introduce him to the idea of emotional intelligence. Someone who comes to Mass without emotional intelligence is not going to find the intellectual side is enough to keep him engaged. (Never mind that this little fellow does not remotely know “everything there is to know” about God and the Bible, as a ten minute quiz out of the Catechism could quickly prove, which is itself just the barest description of the foundations of the faith.)

People, for instance, can be at their most “boring” when they need you the most, if by “boring” you mean that the conversation isn’t revolving around you. Well, if he “knows everything” about the Mass, then he knows that it is not an exercise for his brain. It is an encounter with a Person, the Person who brings all to Himself in perfect love. That encounter requires the whole self, not just the whirring brain. In someone whose brain is used to running everything in their life, true encounters with others will require putting that brain on a leash.

Ask him what he’d say to someone who walked up to him and told him they “know all about him” and find him boring. This is someone who actually does know every fact about him, they could relate anything he can think of back to him, remember things about him that even he didn’t remember. Yep, they know you inside and out, and you, son, are boring.

Does it make you feel loved to hear that? Is that love? What do you know about God, though? Aha…so you know God is love, but you don’t love God, you’re conning yourself: Yet you have just told me that you somehow “know” the infinite God, Creator of the Universe and the Master of all things, both physical and spiritual, who designed and brought things about that no human can begin to understand, so well that you don’t need to have another thing to do with God. Really?

Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps his word, the love of God is truly perfected in him. This is the way we may know that we are in union with him: whoever claims to abide in him ought to live [just] as he lived. 1 John 2:4-6

It is like that with love of neighbor, as well:
Whoever says he is in the light, yet hates his brother, is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother remains in the light, and there is nothing in him to cause a fall.
1 John 2:9-10

In short, I would guess that this fellow is going through a very common stage that bright people go through. The main thing is not to leave him stranded in the impression that he will live the fullest life possible by indulging the minute-to-minute desires of his mind. That is as bad as living your life thinking about nothing but food. It is an empty life.

The Mass is a weekly exercise in being draw out of our deadening selves and into the Person of Christ, to renounce our dead-end choices for God’s life-giving choices, the ones that will give us a life of loving and being loved, instead of a life of just thinking about people and God as if they were dead objects.

 

[EasterJoy]

OK…so he is 11. My explanation obviously wasn’t meant for him, I think the tack is something more like this:

If you are bored at Mass, you have to ask yourself whether or not you are not being pretty boring for God to hang out with, too. You don’t feed yourself, you don’t put a roof over your own head, you couldn’t give yourself a single thing that you need to live and breathe, and the one hour a week set aside for you to love the One most responsible for taking such good care of you, and you are bored. If you’re bored with an hour set aside to being grateful to the Master of the entire Universe, you aren’t paying attention.

The Mass is not about you. How can you know everything about God and the Bible and not know that? Come on, you know that! The Mass is where you re-set your life to think about someone other than yourself, for a change. It is where you learn to be like God Himself.

So maybe he doesn’t believe that. Maybe he *wants *to think about just himself. Tell him that as much as looking after yourself seems the best thing for yourself, anyone with common sense can look around and see that people who only think about themselves are not happy people. God didn’t make us to be self-centered and happy at the same time. It is like using a bicycle as a coat-rack. If you aren’t loving other people and loving God, you are wasting yourself, including that wonderful imaginative brain God gave you. God made you to be happy forever AND God made you to love and serve. The two go together! That’s how you are wired!

Even if I had every reason to believe that he was a self-centered kid, it is better to talk to him with the assumption that he wants to love and wants to act, but doesn’t know how to do that at Mass. Go from there. Think of things for him to try to DO at Mass. A lot of what other people is doing is in the heart, after all. Well, he can’t see that, so how can he imitate what he can’t see?

At this point, I’d also venture that perhaps the issue is that this young man could use something more to do with his hands at Mass, instead of just listening, reflecting, or doing spiritual work (which can be pretty heavy lifting).

Many parishes allow grade school students to start altar serving at around his age. In my experience, a child who has a “hands on” way of interacting with others can find that altar serving changes how he sees the Mass. If he is mature enough to do it, consider that he might find altar service helps him to keep his brain focused on the Mass, instead of wandering elsewhere or training on himself. It is something to think about.

 

[pianistclare]

Since he presumably knows no Latin, that would IMNAAHO only enforce the boredom factor by forcing him to listen to a strange language.

Just make sure (if you can) that if he is not yet confirmed, that he does CCD somewhere more “orthodox” than his school.

Boredom is a part of life and most kids don’t relate to the need for religion, but it will be learnt, if well-meaning adults don’t push him away from it.

ICXC NIKA

Exactly. This child needs a good catechist. Talk to your DRE about what classes or programs maybe available to him.
Is he interested in serving at the altar? Maybe one of the Deacons could talk to him about this possibility. The “point” should have been made clear in his Formation classes. Did he ever attend any past First Holy Communion? Of he did, a talk with the DRE and Pastor may be in order. Sunday school is not babysitting. It takes more than an art and crafts mentality to engage our children. If I found out that our classes had that attitude I’d begin a major overhaul of the Formation at that parish.
Good luck!

 

[styrgwillidar]

Have him read

“Faith of the Early Fathers” edited and translated by Jurgens, at least the first volume.

I also recommend “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” by Keating
and 'Surprised by Truth" by Madrid

If he has a bright inquiring mind and they’ve been teaching him with the typical material used for 11 year olds, it isn’t anywhere near complex enough. Challenge him by asking him if he knows the early Church history, and what the original Christians believed/taught about the Eucharist. Give him ‘Faith of the Early Fathers’ and a pack of highlighters with different colors and have him go through it and highlight different subjects-

• Eucharist
• Reconciliation
• Baptism
• Church Hierarchy
  etc.

With ‘Surprised by Truth’, point out these are the stories of folks who knew far more then he probably ever will about Christian theology— yet decided to become Catholics, and understood the importance of the mass and the Eucharist.

He’s going to run into folks who’ll give him their cut and things to try and engage him with their complex view and criticism of the Catholic faith. As a bright kid, he’ll be drawn to considering it— he needs to hear the Catholic responses to the arguments/points. The above books are a good way to engage him more deeply.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Oh, forgot to add,

Challenge him to find a book with a ‘Nihil Obstat’ and ‘Imprimatur’ which declares Transubstantiation to be a myth.

ETA: What does he think of Martin Luther’s revisions to the Bible? Does he believe they were appropriate changes/discards? Why? Does he prefer the Catholic or Protestant Bible?

 

[newcalling]

I like the idea of engaging him regarding the readings. I would probably tell him that since he thinks that he knows everything about it, that it would be valuable if he could come with me and explain to me what the Sunday readings mean. Of course you understand the readings, but it engages him and he might even have valuable insight from a youthful perspective. I might also emphasize that knowledge, wisdom and understanding are gifts from God and that he has a responsibility to use that knowledge to help others understand; therefore, if he goes to mass he can hear the weekly readings and discuss them with/explain them to his friends and family, including you. You might just inspire a future priest, deacon, catechist, etc. I also agree that it is good to get him involved in a ministry: can he be an altar server?

 

[friardchips]

Very good sound advice! Here’s another idea… how about taking him to a Latin Mass??
I’ve never been but have heard so many people saying how it emphasizes the mystery of the Traditions of the Mass! As well as more focus on the central theme of the eucharist!

This can be done for the Ordinary Form too! Just go into the reasons for the parts of the Mass and why it is that these practices are expressed. Explain that the central attention of the Mass is not on him and not on the priest and it doesn’t matter whether the priest faces the people, or the wall - in the New Form the Eucharist is surrounded by the priest AND the congregation, and in the extraordinary form it is the priest with the people looking at his back but both facing the eucharist again; yet, either way, the Eucharist is the central focus and it is not bells and whistles ever which a boy of that age might believe due to lack of spiritual maturity. He needs to be aware of the spiritual aspect, possibly. Also education into religion and maybe the OT might give a backdrop for the Mass that keeps him interested.

 

[EasterJoy]

…Sadly, none of his classmates attends Mass regularly and his ‘Catholic’ school taught him that Transubstantiation is a myth and that it’s better to do good deeds throughout the week than be awful and go to Mass on Sunday - as though that was the choice!

He might like to explain why people who spend their whole lives doing good deeds have such an affection for the Mass. How much good do these people do, the ones who tell him not to go to Mass? It is rare for one of them to do as much for others as the typical member of a St. Vincent de Paul chapter. (What they are teaching you, my son, is called “rationalization.” It is a cover for laziness, and it doesn’t fool anybody.)

He’s got a very enquiring mind, but he’s been lead so much to believe that he’s soooo clever by his school that he appears to be without any shred of self-doubt when it comes to his view that the Mass is ‘all metaphorical’ and ‘there’s no point because it’s the same every week!’

If you do nothing else for that young man, impress upon him what a “bore” is. The most boring people on the planet are the people who think they know everything and who talk about how it is better to do good things for other people instead of going to Mass, and yet somehow never get around to doing a fraction of the good for other people that people who go to Mass find the time to do!

I don’t want to squash his thirst for knowledge or his desire to learn and question, but I am running out of ideas for encouraging him to engage his brain in the study of the Gospel and to learn to value humility and thinking of others, as much as seeking praise for himself and always being ‘right’…

I know I sound harsh - but the culture for relativism, secularism is particularly damaging to young boys like this who are seeking answers on the one hand, but on the other, are constantly being told how ‘brilliant’ their questions are without any values being placed on listening, self-control or humility.

Your instincts about the damaging effects of being full of yourself from the time you are in grade school and encouraged to think you are the final authority on everything are spot-on.

American grade school children consistently rank far higher on self-concept than they do in actual performance on exams testing their competence. You might want to ask him about that little statistic!

You would do this boy a favor to teach him to take the effusive praise of others with a grain of salt. He needs to know that if he continues to progress in academics he will eventually wind up in the company of his intellectual equals and some who are his betters. If he is somewhere like Harvard or Stanford, he’ll find everyone is smart and a lot of people are smarter than he is. Those who aren’t ready for that day do not do well when it comes!

I have been in places like that, and I can guarantee that people who have more appreciation for others than for themselves and who don’t expect the world to revolve around what they want will go much farther than those who are constantly annoying everyone else with their self-centered and self-important attitudes.

 

[pianistclare]

A child with an enquiring mind loses his charm when he gets into the upper grades. You will do great service to this child you love, to point him to what Christ demonstrates about humility.

I once told a precocious student of mine:
“Honey, you’re just been told you’re cute one time too many!”.

His parents thanked me.
He turned out fine. But no one had ever told him he needed to talk less and listen more.

 

[EasterJoy]

A child with an enquiring mind loses his charm when he gets into the upper grades. You will do great service to this child you love, to point him to what Christ demonstrates about humility.

I once told a precocious student of mine:
“Honey, you’re just been told you’re cute one time too many!”.

His parents thanked me.
He turned out fine. But no one had ever told him he needed to talk less and listen more.

You are a gift…gentle and yet honest. A priest friend of mine once told me that the best thing that ever happened to him as a student was when a teacher who didn’t call on him when he was bursting to show he was the only one who knew the answer pulled him aside after the rest of the class was dismissed. She told him that what he lacked was not knowledge, but self-control, and that he could only get it by practicing it. Thirty years later, he still remembered that lesson.

 

[alphawoman]

I have a theologically precocious son who occasionally has a know-it-all attitude about Mass. With his temperament, learning style, and inclinations, I’ve found these steps have helped steer him back on course:

1. Pre-read the week’s readings before Mass (ideally on Friday or Saturday, so you can have some conversation as a family). I like using a children’s missal for my son, but an 11 year old would likely prefer the adult version. Engage in perspective taking to critically evaluate the experiences of the actors in the readings from all angles, and try to include personal stories of times where you/he have felt like the various individuals in the readings.
2. Summarize weekly readings succinctly and come up with a family plan of action to put into practice one of the behaviours of people in the readings who grew closer to God as a team. Be seen actively implementing the behaviour, and talk through situations where you fall short of your goal.
3. Bring up a “big” question to which the answer requires extensive reading and reflection, and ask for his answer. When he inevitably doesn’t know the answer, talk about how to search out truth, including the need for scholarship, prayer, and participation in the sacraments. I find these humbling little questions snap my son out of egotism pretty quickly (they work for me, too!)
4. Emphasize the personal Jesus through increased time in adoration and prayer in Church outside Mass. Since my son was a toddler, I’ve tried to make a habit of dropping into the church at least once during the week outside Mass to simply be present with Jesus. Walk the Stations of the Cross. Discuss stained glass scenes or other visual art in the parish and their precipitating events. Choose a hymn to review and discuss together. I’m trying very hard to inculcate the view that Jesus is a loving brother and personal friend who we visit regularly simply because we love each other so much we can’t resist being together!

Good luck!

 

[pianistclare]

I have a theologically precocious son who occasionally has a know-it-all attitude about Mass. With his temperament, learning style, and inclinations, I’ve found these steps have helped steer him back on course:

1. Pre-read the week’s readings before Mass (ideally on Friday or Saturday, so you can have some conversation as a family). I like using a children’s missal for my son, but an 11 year old would likely prefer the adult version. Engage in perspective taking to critically evaluate the experiences of the actors in the readings from all angles, and try to include personal stories of times where you/he have felt like the various individuals in the readings.
2. Summarize weekly readings succinctly and come up with a family plan of action to put into practice one of the behaviours of people in the readings who grew closer to God as a team. Be seen actively implementing the behaviour, and talk through situations where you fall short of your goal.
3. Bring up a “big” question to which the answer requires extensive reading and reflection, and ask for his answer. When he inevitably doesn’t know the answer, talk about how to search out truth, including the need for scholarship, prayer, and participation in the sacraments. I find these humbling little questions snap my son out of egotism pretty quickly (they work for me, too!)
4. Emphasize the personal Jesus through increased time in adoration and prayer in Church outside Mass. Since my son was a toddler, I’ve tried to make a habit of dropping into the church at least once during the week outside Mass to simply be present with Jesus. Walk the Stations of the Cross. Discuss stained glass scenes or other visual art in the parish and their precipitating events. Choose a hymn to review and discuss together. I’m trying very hard to inculcate the view that Jesus is a loving brother and personal friend who we visit regularly simply because we love each other so much we can’t resist being together!

Good luck!

 

[boomerang]

1. Does his father still take him to mass? Boys will have more respect for church if their father goes.
2. Sign him up for altar service and other volunteer services at the church.
3. If his school is actually telling him things contrary to our faith, his parents need to have a talk with the principal and/or pull him out of that school.