Intelligent Design is Self-refuting

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edwest211 said:
The odds are extremely low, to the point where it falls into the impossible category.
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Here’s the thing. Such estimates (“it must be impossible”) are clearly wrong because it DID happen.
Either your estimate is simply incorrect, or we are missing some key pieces of information, or - yes- we got very lucky. But, here we are.
 
A standard reply. My point is this: the current explanation is wrong. One can’t actually go back millions of years. And discontinuity in rock strata exist. Uniformitarianism is wrong and catastrophism can be shown. You can buy a tree right now that has gone missing for 200 million years. How it survived all the intervening catastrophes is unknown.
 
John Lennox -
The obvious and common response to his statement that the cosmological argument is still valid because “God wasn’t created” is to simply say then to say that the universe then wasn’t “created”.
The theist will then respond with “what about the Big Bang” and so forth.
But then you could simply say “The multiverse wasn’t created” or the “Vacuum potential wasn’t created” or “Mathematics and physical probability wasn’t created”.

The point is that none of the cosmological arguments stand up to any scrutiny because they all rely on special pleading. In other words, the theist wants to claim a special case for “God”, but no one else can for their origin of existence. Why can’t the universe be cyclical, and be infinite? Why can’t there be an infinite multiverse that spawns Big Bangs ‘all the time’? Why do YOU get to say that God is special but I can’t claim similar special pleading? Cosmological arguments have been dead for hundreds of years.

Besides, it’s a ridiculous approach anyway. Cosmological arguments are DEIST. Even if correct, they actually disprove and contradict what a theist wants you to believe.
 
edwest211 said:
Uniformitarianism is wrong and catastrophism can be shown.
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Completely ridiculous. Gradualism in Geology is as widely accepted as Evolution in Biology. There is no debate. Catastrophic events of course have occurred. The comet that killed the dinosaurs is one such example. A billion years from now, evidence of climate change could be explained as another.
But such events do not contradict Gradualism - far from it. Are you a young earth creationist?
The only reason catastrophism would be brought up in a religion forum is to justify YEC, which is not what it even means.
 
edwest211 said:
A standard reply. My point is this: the current explanation is wrong. One can’t actually go back millions of years. And discontinuity in rock strata exist. Uniformitarianism is wrong and catastrophism can be shown. You can buy a tree right now that has gone missing for 200 million years. How it survived all the intervening catastrophes is unknown.
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Hey, so you accept that the planet is at least 200 million years old? That’s a step in the right direction. I’ll save that snippet of info in case it’s needed at some time.
 
LateCatholic said:
Gradualism in Geology is as widely accepted as Evolution in Biology. There is no debate.
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There was a huge debate until recently. The uniformatarianists had to recant.

See the Mystery of the Megaflood
 
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buffalo said:
There was a huge debate until recently. The uniformatarianists had to recant.

See the Mystery of the Megaflood
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Your video talks about “millions of years”. Are you now asserting that the earth is more than 10,000 years old? The Washington floods happened at the end of the last Ice Age about 14,000 years ago, well before the YEC date for the origin of the universe.
 
rossum said:
Your video talks about “millions of years”. Are you now asserting that the earth is more than 10,000 years old? The Washington floods happened at the end of the last Ice Age about 14,000 years ago, well before the YEC date for the origin of the universe.
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The point is that catastrophism is once again accepted. In addition, the power of water to shape the landscape is huge in a very short time.
 
buffalo said:
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rossum:
Your video talks about “millions of years”. Are you now asserting that the earth is more than 10,000 years old? The Washington floods happened at the end of the last Ice Age about 14,000 years ago, well before the YEC date for the origin of the universe.
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The point is that catastrophism is once again accepted. In addition, the power of water to shape the landscape is huge in a very short time.
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Maybe they mentioned millions of years so that they wouldn’t lose their funding. Isn’t that your usual excuse for shooting yourself in the foot?
 
buffalo said:
The point is that catastrophism is once again accepted. In addition, the power of water to shape the landscape is huge in a very short time.
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Floods have been happening for a very very long time. Floods do not go against uniformitarianism. Once every 100 years on average we will have the biggest flood for 100 years.

Your problem is that a single large flood about 4,300 years ago is incapable of doing what you want it to. How does a single large flood form millions of layers, as in the Green River formation, with some of those layers having footprints of wading birds? Do you know any birds with legs 15 cubits long?

You are happy to ply us with videos about events you think happened well before God created the earth 6,000 years ago. Why do you think that such videos will convince us that the earth is only 6,000 years old? Beats me.
 
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