Intelligent Design

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tjm. For the last 20 years I have read thousands of book, articles and you name it on the subject of evolution. I am now satisfied that the scientific case for evolution is no more than an ideological interpretation of phenomena. I am now satisfied that the Creationists - mainly Protestants - have produced a credible alternative scientific interpretation of the phenomena used to determine these things.

I have now come to a stage in my life when I know there is no point in arguing at the scientific level because it can tell us nothing of ages with certainty. With no evolution going on now evolutionary science is nothing more than ideological assumptions, and assumptions are not science. The fossil record shows 100% fixed complete creatures. Science thinks it can convince the world by putting together a few hundred bones that they say are evolving creatures. Pathetic. So I have dumped all my scientific literature and moved over to defending creation on the basis of the Catholic faith.

I do not know what you mean by
‘Yes, with God all things are possible- God COULD have caused a flood and then made it appear as if no flood happened- however, since God is truth such deception seems unlikely’

The Earth is covered with sedimentary rock except where ignious rock upthrusted, thus globally covered with water. There are fossil graves world wide with MILLIONS of dionasurs, fish, mammals, birds, insects etc in them, proving there was flooding on a massive scale. What other evidence of a world wide flood do you need.

The ice age, which is a fact, logically (according to faith) had to occur immediately after the flood because there is evidence of its retreat to the poles. If it was before the flood the sediments would have eliminated this direct evidence. The populations of the earth originated in the mid east and spread outwards. They probably followed the ice retreat over the centuries. How would they know there was anything special going on to record it.
Have you actually read any decent science books though? in other words not books written by creationists and other people who pretty much reject much of science Cause if you have I would have a hard time believing you could still think like you do. But if your willing to read more here is a good site. evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php

And umm what do you mean no evolution going on now? Are you actually suggesting that micro evolution doesn;t happen? Most creationist even the YEC kind accept that. But speciation has occured. talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html But if your expecting one animal to turn suddenly into another or something like that then you donlt understand how evolution works.

And what do you mean that the fossil record shows fixed creatures? If your suggesting there are no transitional fossils you are incorrect. talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#pred4

Yes flooding has caused mass fossilization events however not all fossils are formed because of floods. Not to mention how to explain the neat sorting? How did some plants get to higher ground then certain animals and so on. talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#georecord I mean if the fossil record is almost entirely a result of some global flood things certainly miraclously sorted themselves out rather neatly.

As for the ice age how do you think this ice age would have occured? Right now the Milankovitch cycle is the dominant theory. culter.colorado.edu/~saelias/glacier.html

But please truly educate yourself…you will find that despite what you seem to think now scientific theories aren;t evil conpiracies like your YEC sources probably want you to believe.
 
The sincere person who really wants to be educated must first realize the solid anti-theistic bias even in Biology textbooks. The people who write these things think they are right, but have, in fact, overstepped their bounds as scientists.

We can see this in current biology textbooks:

“[E]volution works without either plan or purpose — Evolution is random and undirected.”
(Biology, by Kenneth R. Miller & Joseph S. Levine (1st ed., Prentice Hall, 1991), pg. 658; (3rd ed., Prentice Hall, 1995), pg. 658; (4th ed., Prentice Hall, 1998), pg. 658; emphasis in original.)

Humans represent just one tiny, largely fortuitous, and late-arising twig on the enormously arborescent bush of life.”
(Stephen J Gould quoted in Biology, by Peter H Raven & George B Johnson (5th ed., McGraw Hill, 1999), pg 15; (6th ed., McGraw Hill, 2000), pg. 16.)

“By coupling **undirected, purposeless **variation to the **blind, uncaring **process of natural selection, Darwin made theological or spiritual explanations of the life processes superfluous.”
(Evolutionary Biology, by Douglas J. Futuyma (3rd ed., Sinauer Associates Inc., 1998), p. 5.)

“Darwin knew that accepting his theory required believing in philosophical materialism, the conviction that **matter is the stuff of all existence **and that all mental and spiritual phenomena are its by-products. Darwinian evolution was not only purposeless but also heartless–a process in which the rigors of nature ruthlessly eliminate the unfit. Suddenly, humanity was reduced to just one more species in a world that cared nothing for us. The great human mind was no more than a mass of evolving neurons. Worst of all, there was no divine plan to guide us.”
(Biology: Discovering Life by Joseph S. Levine & Kenneth R. Miller (1st ed., D.C. Heath and Co., 1992), pg. 152; (2nd ed… D.C. Heath and Co., 1994), p. 161; emphases in original.)

“Adopting this view of the world means accepting not only the processes of evolution, but also the view that the living world is constantly evolving, and that evolutionary change occurs without any goals.’ The idea that **evolution is not directed **towards a final goal state has been more difficult for many people to accept than the process of evolution itself.”
(Life: The Science of Biology by William K. Purves, David Sadava, Gordon H. Orians, & H. Craig Keller, (6th ed., Sinauer; W.H. Freeman and Co., 2001), pg. 3.)

“The ‘blind’ watchmaker is natural selection. **Natural selection is totally blind **to the future. “**Humans are fundamentally not exceptional **because we came from the same evolutionary source as every other species. It is natural selection of selfish genes that has given us our bodies and brains “Natural selection is a bewilderingly simple idea. And yet what it explains is the whole of life, the diversity of life, the apparent design of life.”
(Richard Dawkins quoted in *Biology *by Neil A. Campbell, Jane B. Reese. & Lawrence G. Mitchell (5th ed., Addison Wesley Longman, 1999), pgs. 412-413.)

“Of course, no species has 'chosen’ a strategy. Rather, its ancestors ‘little by little, generation after generation’ merely wandered into a successful way of life through the action of random evolutionary forces. Once pointed in a certain direction, a line of evolution survives only if the cosmic dice continues to roll in its favor. “[J]ust by chance, a wonderful diversity of life has developed during the billions of years in which organisms have been evolving on earth.
(Biology by Burton S. Guttman (1st ed., McGraw Hill, 1999), pgs. 36-37.)

“It is difficult to avoid the speculation that Darwin, as has been the case with others, found the implications of his theory difficult to confront. “The real difficulty in accepting Darwins theory has always been that it seems to diminish our significance. Earlier, astronomy had made it clear that the earth is not the center of the solar universe, or even of our own solar system. Now the new biology asked us to accept the proposition that, like all other organisms, we too are the products of a random process that, as far as science can show, we are not created for any special purpose or as part of any universal design.”
(Invitation to Biology, by Helena Curtis & N. Sue Barnes(3rd ed., Worth, 1981), pgs. 474-475.)

Peace,
Ed
 
Amen! Amen! Amen!

There are a few here, including some “theologians” who will attempt to correct this flaw when they get the chance. But I’m betting that the answer will be “no.”
Exactly, and by the way saints are also even more unscientific. There is no proof for them. Defend that Mr. tjm190! 😃
Well, the world looks as if there was no flood.
I already told you that there is evidence for AND against.
If there was a flood, God certainly cleaned up the evidence- that would have been nice to know,
God certainly cleaned up the evidence of his existance too. So I guess he doesn’t exist then?
unless you believe in a God who sets up the natural world to trick us
Unless you believe in a God that promises that Christ fulfiled the ancient scriptures that according to you are just lies.
 
Hey look what I just ran across - our old “buddy” from CAF - drpmjhess. Here’s the link to the article, and an excerpt below. At one point, I thought that drhess had transmorgrophied into StA…
I have had the exact same thoughts.

He is the faith director at none other than the NCSE. Guess what they are up to? Convincing your kids that evolution is OK with your faith. Seems a problem given that they are atheists. So he is doing their dirty work?
 
I have had the exact same thoughts.

He is the faith director at none other than the NCSE. Guess what they are up to? Convincing your kids that evolution is OK with your faith. Seems a problem given that they are atheists. So he is doing their dirty work?
Devils advocate, anti-Christ, Judas.
 
Ahh of course of course why didnl;t I think of that!? 😉
…yes and a dead man just woke up and walked out of his tomb. Lazareth.

What do you make of Christ words then when he said any of you with faith the size of a mustard seed can say to a mountain move, and it will move?
 
I’m not a YEC, but many (you? I don’t remember) use the argument that God would not make the Earth appear to be billions of years old when it was really only 6000 years old. You are trying to use a similar argument - that God is trying to make purpose appear as random, or to hide evidence of his involvement - just to fool us I suppose.
Matter and energy behave probabilistically- if God can’t act through random processes, He can’t act at all.
 
Of course, haven’t you ever read Lord of the Rings?
Have you ever read the Gospel? Apparently dead people can wake up. And messiahs can walk on water, and blind people can be healed, and sick people can miraculously gain perfect health. I mean, how stupid is that!?

Apparently there is even a God, talk about laughable!
 
Matter and energy behave probabilistically- if God can’t act through random processes, He can’t act at all.
Of course he can. He can work outside of natural laws. After all, he invented / created them.

Chance is not an explanation of anything, it is a lack of one.
 
Of course he can. He can work outside of natural laws. After all, he invented / created them.

Chance is not an explanation of anything, it is a lack of one.
It is scientifically impossible for a girl to get pregnant other than to have had intercourse.
 
It is scientifically impossible for a girl to get pregnant other than to have had intercourse.
Nobody is claiming miracles don’t happen- it is completely possible God made the world look just like it would had everything evolved and there was no flood.
 
Of course he can. He can work outside of natural laws. After all, he invented / created them.

Chance is not an explanation of anything, it is a lack of one.
I know He can- hence the “Random and God can’t be present as the same time” statement is invalid.
 
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