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Sample
Guest
I thought the first punishment in the Bible was for seeking knowledge. It’s not clear exactly what kind of knowledge was involved so I wouldn’t interpret it as being necessarily evil.
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Luna_Lovecraft
Guest
When you consider the sheer size our galaxy and consider that we’re in just one of probably 170 billion galaxies, I think the chances of us being the only sentient life forms in the universe is tiny.
Luna
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Sample
Guest
Luna Lovecraft,
It is spell-binding, isn’t it? Not more than a hundred years ago we were only aware of one galaxy, our own. Now there are countless galaxies.
Yes the universe is vast.
However, it’s not the size of the universe that gives me reason to postulate that life may be found elsewhere, but the rather the recent discovery of exo-planets outside our own solar system. The immensity of the universe does do something else, however. It demonstrates just how much space is hostile to life as we know it. Even here on earth, 2/3rds of the planet will kill life instantly.
Interestingly, in a few trillion years, if there is a galaxy with a planet full of astronomers, when they peer out into their night sky they will once again think their galaxy is the only one in existence. Just like we did a hundred years ago. But these distant astronomers will be wrong in a different way than we were wrong.
Galaxies are retreating from one another and will one day red-shift out of detection from every other galaxy. The universe to that astronomer will look static and eternal, just as we thought a century ago. And like I said, they’ll be wrong! Isn’t that wild? If the poll about life elsewhere were conducted in that future galaxy, you would have likely have unanimity that there was no life beyond their galaxy.
We are living in just the right time to be able to know these things which I find truly fascinating, humbling, and poetic even.
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wanstronian
Guest
I would agree.
Agreed by whom? A finite number squared is still a finite number, so by definition not impossible.
But anyway, you miss the point. It would be unbelievably improbable if humans evolved more than once, entirely independently. But of course, this isn’t how humans, or any organisms, actually evolve.
No - this is incorrect, as ThinkingSapien has explained.
True - but this does not mean we all came from one man and one woman.
I don’t call it anything, because there is no force that intelligently drives evolution. The “force,” or process, is entirely natural, and well-explained by the Theory Which Must Not Be Discussed. There is no intelligence required nor apparent.Whether you call the force that intelligently drives evolution and selects superior traits to supercede inferior traits “God” or something else (“chance” or “natural selection” etc.) is immaterial.
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tonyrey
Guest
It is unnecessary to go into the details of what occurred in the past:
- Both life and intelligence **are **inexplicable solely in terms of physics and chemistry.
- There is no reason to suppose the laws of nature** are **different since the advent of life and intelligence.
- Everything in the universe before the advent of life and intelligence** is** (in principle) explicable in terms of physics and chemistry.
- So there is another factor that caused the advent of life and intelligence.
- There is no reason to suppose that factor no longer exists.
- What **is **that factor?
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Gaber
Guest
Save for the words “caused” and “exists,” that’s not bad.
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tonyrey
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tabycat
Guest
Way would God not create more then one intellagent race? He’s proven that he has a sense of humor (the duckbill platerpus). 
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buffalo
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They didn’t? Source?
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Gaber
Guest
tonyrey;9355763… said:
(in principle) explicable in terms of physics and chemistry. We do not know by chemistry or physics that intelligence did not operate as a Principle with or without the bugaboo of anthropomorphized “purpose” before the appearance of what we call “life forms” (an excruciatingly limited view of what Life is manifested as) here or possibly elsewhere, those two not in fact distinct to Principle.
So having the constraint of misunderstanding what constitutes Life as form, flavored and informed by a particular dualistic paradigm, we can through ignorance construe a cause, which in fact is more simply the unfolding of Being Itself as whatever form, seemingly discreet or in wholeness.
The factor of Life technically IS, and is not a product of its extant forms. So existance is not an exact term referring to what is mistaken as “cause.” The idea of “cause” is a malfunction in analysis of the linear sequential grammar of English and other languages that grammar not being congruent with fact. What IS, as Being, has no “cause” and is therefor not extant. Such an idea is subtle, but takes on meaning with the kind of discovery you have claimed is not the proper concern of philosophy, while it is at the root of anything useful in that department. But yours is an “ascending” approach, as is Catholicism classified as an ascending approach, so you must by the limitations of your logic use “cause” and “exists.” In other words, those words may be valid in your paradigm, but not in a broader picture.
It seems you are not interested, so why ask?
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pgnat1
Guest
The Director of the Vatican’s Observatory, Fr. José Gabriel Funes, said in an interview with the Vatican daily, L’Osservatore Romano, that believing in the possible existence of extraterrestrial life is not opposed to Catholic doctrine.
The 45-year-old Argentinean priest heads the Vatican Observatory, founded by Pope Leo XIII with offices at Castelgandolfo, near the Apostolic summer palace, and another in Tucson, Arizona. Fr. Funes has been in charge of the Observatory since August 2006.
The astronomer began the interview titled, “The Alien is my Brother,” by saying that, “Astronomy has a profound human value. It is a science that opens the heart and the mind. It helps us to put our lives, our hopes, our problems in the right perspective. In this regard, and here I speak as a priest and a Jesuit, it is an apostolic instrument that can bring us closer to God”, said Fr. Funes in the interview.
Regarding the beginning of the universe, Fr. Funes says that he personally believes that the “big bang” theory seems to him the most plausible, and that it does not contradict the Bible. “We cannot ask the Bible for a scientific answer here. At the same time, we don’t know if in a near future the ‘Big Bang’ theory will be superseded by a more complete and precise explanation of the origin of the universe.”
When he was asked about the possibility of extraterrestrial life, the Director of the Vatican Observatory responded that “it is possible, even if until now, we have no proof. But certainly in such a big universe this hypothesis cannot be excluded.”
Asked is he sees a contradiction between the Catholic faith and believing in aliens, he said, “I think there isn’t (a contradiction). Just as there is a multiplicity of creatures over the earth, so there could be other beings, even intelligent (beings), created by God. This is not in contradiction with our faith, because we cannot establish limits to God’s creative freedom. To say it with St. Francis, if we can consider some earthly creatures as ‘brothers’ or ‘sisters’, why could we not speak of a ‘brother alien’? He would also belong to the creation.”
Fr. Funes says that taking the image of the lost sheep in the Gospel, “we could think that in this universe there can be 100 sheep, equivalent to different kinds of creatures. We, belonging to human kind could be precisely the lost sheep, the sinners that need the shepherd. God became man in Jesus to save us. In that way, assuming that there would be other intelligent beings, we could not say that they need redemption . They could have remained in full friendship with the Creator.”
“But if they were sinners?” L’Osservatore’s journalist asks.
“Jesus became man once and for all. The Incarnation is a single and unique event. So I am sure that also they, in some way, would have the chance to enjoy God’s mercy, just as it has happened with us human beings.”
catholicnewsagency.com/news/believing_in_aliens_not_opposed_to_christianity_vaticans_top_astronomer_says/
The 45-year-old Argentinean priest heads the Vatican Observatory, founded by Pope Leo XIII with offices at Castelgandolfo, near the Apostolic summer palace, and another in Tucson, Arizona. Fr. Funes has been in charge of the Observatory since August 2006.
The astronomer began the interview titled, “The Alien is my Brother,” by saying that, “Astronomy has a profound human value. It is a science that opens the heart and the mind. It helps us to put our lives, our hopes, our problems in the right perspective. In this regard, and here I speak as a priest and a Jesuit, it is an apostolic instrument that can bring us closer to God”, said Fr. Funes in the interview.
Regarding the beginning of the universe, Fr. Funes says that he personally believes that the “big bang” theory seems to him the most plausible, and that it does not contradict the Bible. “We cannot ask the Bible for a scientific answer here. At the same time, we don’t know if in a near future the ‘Big Bang’ theory will be superseded by a more complete and precise explanation of the origin of the universe.”
When he was asked about the possibility of extraterrestrial life, the Director of the Vatican Observatory responded that “it is possible, even if until now, we have no proof. But certainly in such a big universe this hypothesis cannot be excluded.”
Asked is he sees a contradiction between the Catholic faith and believing in aliens, he said, “I think there isn’t (a contradiction). Just as there is a multiplicity of creatures over the earth, so there could be other beings, even intelligent (beings), created by God. This is not in contradiction with our faith, because we cannot establish limits to God’s creative freedom. To say it with St. Francis, if we can consider some earthly creatures as ‘brothers’ or ‘sisters’, why could we not speak of a ‘brother alien’? He would also belong to the creation.”
Fr. Funes says that taking the image of the lost sheep in the Gospel, “we could think that in this universe there can be 100 sheep, equivalent to different kinds of creatures. We, belonging to human kind could be precisely the lost sheep, the sinners that need the shepherd. God became man in Jesus to save us. In that way, assuming that there would be other intelligent beings, we could not say that they need redemption . They could have remained in full friendship with the Creator.”
“But if they were sinners?” L’Osservatore’s journalist asks.
“Jesus became man once and for all. The Incarnation is a single and unique event. So I am sure that also they, in some way, would have the chance to enjoy God’s mercy, just as it has happened with us human beings.”
catholicnewsagency.com/news/believing_in_aliens_not_opposed_to_christianity_vaticans_top_astronomer_says/
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bearer
Guest
No, it was for disobeying God’s commandment.
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wcknight
Guest
I think it’s very possible and more than likely that astronomers from other galaxies have far surpassed us by many thousands or millions of years. The universe is over 13 billion years old, while our technological age started just a hundred or two hundred year ago. Imagine a civilization that had a million year or a BILLION years head start. We are barely even new borns compared to these folks.
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Gaber
Guest
Yes, again we might ask who it was in the spacecrafts that the moononauts saw parked near their exploration site.
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tonyrey
Guest
The problem is how any form of life could survive for so long in this universe …
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wcknight
Guest
Given human nature, life would probably destroy itself after a few hundred generations. BUT maybe with a less destructive more co-opperative nature, a civilization may be able to survive indefinitely.
It may be possible for an advanced civilization to eliminate problems like envy, greed, jealousy etc.
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tabycat
Guest
npatrol: Maybe checking up on their “little brothers and sisters”.
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Gaber
Guest
Who knows? What fascinates me is the privatization of all that stuff. As we see nowdays, corporations are the new nations and governments. What if they were future stockholders? Or corporate headhunters?
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tabycat
Guest
Maybe using very little government help, we may still get out of the ‘crib’ (the Moon) and into the ‘playpen’ (the rest of the Solar System), and we may come face to face with our ‘big brothers and sisters’ (the Aliens).
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