Intelligent life on other planets

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empther said:
There is no reason other intelligent civilizations couldn’t have their own “Redeemer”, like we have Jesus.

Since Jesus is not a human person but a divine person, the Son of God would be the person of all these Redeemers.

Each civilization would owe it’s allegiance only to it own Redeemer.

The Redeemers might be aware of each other, but would not need to know details about each other’s histories.

God might choose to mix civilizations up in Heaven. On the other hand, he might choose to keep civilizations separate forever. Why? I don’t know.
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I figured the reason why this would be wrong would be obvious: revelation tells us of the Trinity. If there were more Persons of God, then the Trinity would be wrong, which means a lot of Christian doctrine is wrong.
 
chimo said:
roseproject;10354599:
Is it possible that God could’ve created other “humans” living on other planets, that is, beings created in the image and likeness of God and having a spiritual soul (even if they don’t physically look like us)?
And if this is possible, how would these “humans” obtain salvation? Would Christ have had to appear to them too…assuming that these humans would have made the choice to reject God?

Thanks in advance 🙂
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Carl Sagan was a very outspoken atheist. I’d hardly take any philosophy from him.

Does the Universe actually “exist”, or does it “exist” because we are looking at it? Quantum physics posits the latter is possible: consciousness “creates” events, etc. , well known theories regarding this. If God has created the immensity that appears to be there when we “look” for it, He has purpose for it all. There is no wasted space. In fact, it’s believed that the darkest places in the known Universe actually contain photons: light is literally everywhere, even in darkness. It’s also posited by science that there are many dimensions. This is, presumably, possible; probable? no, just possible. I think “heaven” is in another dimension (my opinion but not just mine, alone). That could be what Jesus meant when He said “The Kingdom of God is within you”…meaning, our souls.
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wittgenstein said:
There are 100,000,000,000 galaxys, each one containing 100,000,000,000 stars. Mathematically it is close to certainty that there are millions of other civilisations.
There is no empirical evidence. However,statistics is very reliable. For example,imagine a randomly shuffled deck of cards. I do not know for sure that the cards are ordered by suit and value. However, it is obvious that that is very very unlikely. Similarly, it is very unlikely that there are no other civilisations in our universe.
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Actually, statistics guarantee the existence of only one intelligent civilization: ours.

With the most favorable estimates available, the Drake equation* suggests that there is possibly 10 other civilizations in our galaxy. More realistic numbers put the number at less than 1. The closest galaxy nearby to our own is still about 75,000 light-years away, so contact with anything that could be there would be completely impossible.

*The Drake equation is at best a poor estimate and at worst a misleading equation. The values used are complete guesses and will not be known in detail until every star and planet in our galaxy is studied carefully. Since we can barely resolve Jupiter-like planets at Jupiter-like orbits in stars, it is not likely we can accurately know these values for many thousands of years (also a guess).
 
I figured the reason why this would be wrong would be obvious: revelation tells us of the Trinity. If there were more Persons of God, then the Trinity would be wrong, which means a lot of Christian doctrine is wrong.
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Who said a multiplicity of Redeemers in the universe would mean there were more Persons of God than the Trinity? I sure didn’t.

Did the birth of Jesus increase the number of divine Persons? No. Jesus’s personhood was the Son of God.

So it would be with a multiplicity of Redeemers.
God makes the rules. If he says this is ok it’s ok.
 
dailey said:
I once read that satan loves when people divert their attention away from God with this silliness. Curiosity killed the cat.
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I think that Satan loves it when people focus more on aliens and other things than on God. However, that does not mean that we should not be inquisitive. God gave us our curiosity and our intellect and our ability to use science. These are all means for us to discover more about His creation, and through that to find out more about Him. I don’t see anything wrong with contemplating what else God may have done.
 
Alberti, thanks for that info on the statistical outcomes of life on other planets if true. I’m terrible at math and even worse at statistics. So, I can’t know for sure if your claim is right or wrong.

However, your claim strikes true to me for two reasons:

(1) Biology the study of life, with respects to the universe, has a statistical sample size of one (earth). And I do know from statistics that any sample size of one is in greater error anyways.

(2) Atheists and scientists might be correct when they counter religious peoples claims that a large, orderly universe with complex forms of life means a God (Intelligent Designer) created the universe and life. Generally, they regard such an assertion as stupid. It therefore seems likewise dubious to me to assert the symmetrical about intelligent life on other planets: the universe is so large there just has to be intelligent life on other planets.

And you are right about us never being able to meet other civilizations on other planets light years away from us. The whole notion is absurd. How much energy would it take to move a ship weighed down with bodies and supplies (supplies worth 75,0000 or 14 billion years) moving at the super-warped speed of light just one way?

Not that I don’t like alien stories. I do. I like vampire stories too. I also like horror films with ghosts. And it would be an especially interesting world to me if vampires and aliens did exist. So, I would like to believe there are aliens (and vampires) but I have no reason to believe so.
 
Response to post 23.
If there is only one civilization per galaxy, that means there are 100,000,000,000 civilizations! And 1 per galaxy is very conservative .
PS: I agree that the distances involved make physical contact nearly impossible. That is why I said that there is no empirical evidence.(post 19) My point was that the math shows that it is very very unlikely that we are alone, and that a conservative estimate (even less then one per galaxy) means that there are millions of civilisations out there! Suppose, on average obviously, there are only
. 01 civilizations per galaxy. That means that there are 10,000,000 civilizations in our universe!
 
Your point? Show me where my math is incorrect. Or are cliche ad hominums your idea of reasoning? Are you saying that if I said that it is very very unlikely that a deck of cards randomly shuffeled would be entirely in order ( first spades 1,2,3,4,5…then hearts 1,2,3…) is silly reasoning? Are you saying that math cannot predict likely outcomes?
 
wittgenstein said:
Your point? Show me where my math is incorrect. Or are cliche ad hominums your idea of reasoning? Are you saying that if I said that it is very very unlikely that a deck of cards randomly shuffeled would be entirely in order ( first spades 1,2,3,4,5…then hearts 1,2,3…) is silly reasoning? Are you saying that math cannot predict likely outcomes?
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Sorry my friend, that wasn’t intended for you. I should have quoted the OP before posting. A poor attempt at humour maybe.
 
Yikes! Actually, my math was wrong ( thats what I get for doing the math in my head!:o)
I said that if there was
.01 civilizations per galaxy there would be 10,000,000 civilizations. Actually, there would be 1,000,000,000!!!
Johnnyjones,
No problem.
 
When you refer to god on this post do you mean a catholic god - it is very confusing reading posts on here which religious god is being spoken of. it can be confusing
 
Response to post 20
Why do you assume that those that understand the majesty and vastness of creation are atheists?
 
wittgenstein said:
Your point? Show me where my math is incorrect. Or are cliche ad hominums your idea of reasoning? Are you saying that if I said that it is very very unlikely that a deck of cards randomly shuffeled would be entirely in order ( first spades 1,2,3,4,5…then hearts 1,2,3…) is silly reasoning? Are you saying that math cannot predict likely outcomes?
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How is a deck of cards (created by man mind you) the equivalent of single cells and multicellular organisms let alone on the level of organization* and intelligence as that of human beings, all birthed from random molecules colliding?

*Organization: cells → tissues → organs → organ systems → organism
 
Rather… one needs to come up with the statistical odds of life being created on earth, then the statistical odds of a multicellular organism like the human being being created on earth from out of pure random events of colliding molecules.

The statistical odds of that needs to be ascertained before one can proceed to a mathematical probability of the same occurrence happening a second, third, fourth, fifth time etc… in the universe.

I hazard a guess the statistical odds of life being created on earth out of random chance, of colliding molecules, is of a practical magnitude of zero. And I’m no mathematician or statistician.
 
wittgenstein said:
Response to post 20
Why do you assume that those that understand the majesty and vastness of creation are atheists?
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I don’t. I was suggesting there is a logical symmetry between the atheists proposition and the proposition that just because the universe is vast does not mean it has intelligent life elsewhere.

And I don’t think you really grasp the complexity of just the human being. A human looks simple but at the level of the cell it is a complex city of molecular machinery function in what would appear to be an intelligent and purposeful manner. And most cells in the human body can function as any other cells (form any tissue or organ from blood to skin) except the cells communicate with one another and only activate certain genes so the cell can turn into a cell for the skin or heart or blood or bone or whatever.

Supposedly this all out of a random events. The Empire State Building in New York City is made out of molecules too and is less complex than the human being, why then did not statistical odds favor the Empire State Building being birthed out of random colliding molecules with no need of human architect and engineers?

I would seem to me that even with 60 trillion universes (not just our universe) the chance of multicellular life like humans being created is zero.

So, it’s not hard for me to fathom that in a universe with a statistical size of one (our universe with all it’s galaxies), that the random chance of complex, intelligent life like humans being created on a single planet in a single galaxy is so extraordinarily rare as to be life existing only on planet earth.
 
Response to post 34
What you quoted was in response to johnnyjones. However, he informed me that what I had thought was him addressing me was actually him responding to the OP. That is why I said," no problem". (post 31)
I was not accusing you of making ad hominums. I was accusing Johnnyjones of making ad hominums against me. I later found out that his post was not a response to mine.
 
empther said:
There is no reason other intelligent civilizations couldn’t have their own “Redeemer”, like we have Jesus.

Since Jesus is not a human person but a divine person, the Son of God would be the person of all these Redeemers.

Each civilization would owe it’s allegiance only to it own Redeemer.

The Redeemers might be aware of each other, but would not need to know details about each other’s histories.

God might choose to mix civilizations up in Heaven. On the other hand, he might choose to keep civilizations separate forever. Why? I don’t know.
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I guess the question would be if they say that Christ died once and for all, would that count for those on other planets or just our own?
 
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