Intent/full knowledge/ sin

[Kathrin]

This is my guess…

You were trying to do a good thing- alert the store to a problem and to “get justice”. (Your money back or a new loaf.

You were reporting truth, not making up a lie.

You were discussing the problems with the appropriate people.

You were doing it as privately as is possible in a grocery store.

You had no intention of causing trouble fir the store. Rather you were seeking to avoid scandal.

Do you think any of that sounds gravely evil?

Nooooooo of course not. Just on the heat of the thing somehow I didn’t care about the secrecy l thing anymore, and I can’t remember how conscious I was of that.
The problem/doubt here is, I guess: What if at one moment I did cross the line to evil?
I vaguely remember that MAYBE when I was told to talk to the one at the cash register, i was relieved about not having to care about the secrecy anymore, because now I didn’t have a choice, it was not my responsibility because I was TOLD to talk to her. But this also kepping in mind that probably from the beginning I was asking myself was I maybe worrying TOO much about keeping it secret, making it too complicated for myself again… oh well. I think there are too many psychological factors involved here for it to be anything near “gravely evil”.

Kathrin

p.s. I looked in the catechism; the name of the possible sin involved here is “detraction”. I didn’t see though where/whether it states when it becomes grave matter.

 

[chefmomster2]

Nooooooo of course not. Just on the heat of the thing somehow I didn’t care about the secrecy l thing anymore, and I can’t remember how conscious I was of that.
The problem/doubt here is, I guess: **What if **at one moment I did cross the line to evil?
I vaguely remember that MAYBE when I was told to talk to the one at the cash register, i was relieved about not having to care about the secrecy anymore, because now I didn’t have a choice, it was not my responsibility because I was TOLD to talk to her. But this also kepping in mind that probably from the beginning I was asking myself was I maybe worrying TOO much about keeping it secret, making it too complicated for myself again… oh well. I think there are too many psychological factors involved here for it to be anything near “gravely evil”.

Kathrin

p.s. I looked in the catechism; the name of the possible sin involved here is “detraction”. I didn’t see though where/whether it states when it becomes grave matter.

Remember that to commit mortal sin, you must KNOW it’s a mortal sin. The words I highlighted show that you were sincerely unclear.

And, YES, you are overthinking it!

 

[Kathrin]

Well I went to communion today and I felt it was really ok.
I had to remember that in my case, with my overly sensitive conscience, feeling guilty about something doesn’t necessarily mean that I had really committed a sin, or even a mortal sin… Once I remembered that again and could detach from those feelings, I kind of realized that it had not really been a big deal at all… and I highly doubt it really did damage to the store either!!!

 

[chefmomster2]

Well I went to communion today and I felt it was really ok.
I had to remember that in my case, with my overly sensitive conscience, feeling guilty about something doesn’t necessarily mean that I had really committed a sin, or even a mortal sin… Once I remembered that again and could detach from those feelings, I kind of realized that it had not really been a big deal at all… and I highly doubt it really did damage to the store either!!!

I am so happy for you! :extrahappy: That is a tremendous first step to getting a handle on your scrupulosity. If it would help, write a letter to yourself about your “aha!” moment. Include all of the clear, good, reasoned, non-scrupulous thoughts that finally came through. The things you wrote in your post above would be perfect. Then, when this happens next time, read what you wrote. Remember your progress. Remembering our successes is SO important in moving forward!

 

[Kathrin]

I am so happy for you! :extrahappy: That is a tremendous first step to getting a handle on your scrupulosity. If it would help, write a letter to yourself about your “aha!” moment. Include all of the clear, good, reasoned, non-scrupulous thoughts that finally came through. The things you wrote in your post above would be perfect. Then, when this happens next time, read what you wrote. Remember your progress. Remembering our successes is SO important in moving forward!

Dear Chefmonster
actually - and that is even better! - I had also made a lot of progress, and this now was very inmportant in terms of getting back on TRACK, insetad of letting myself slip back again. As recently I have been going to confession and asking questions agagin more frequently (even though it didn’t take me back to the amount of suffering of before, but maybe in order to avoid that I chose the wrong way: Asking too early again.)

This thing about the guilt feeling, in MY case, isn’t neccessarily the indicator of the level of sinfulness of an action, is something I had realized before… and had to remember it again, which helped. Exactly like you say, such thoughts are good to again remember in future similar situations. I don’t know if I must write them down (kind of think it is healthier for me now to not give too much thought to this whole thing again, focus on being healthy and not being somebody who needs to write this down ,)— not sure if you know what I mean?

I am stressing “in MY case”, because I am aware that a lot of people who don’t have an overly sensitive conscience also read this forum, and I guess probably for most people feeling guilty is a good indicator that they did something wrong… and feeling VERY guilty that they might have done something seriously wrong (?). I mean, that is what our conscience is for, right?

(I also do think, again, on the other hand, that a lot of people might feel guilty about something they caused without any sin, unintentionally, like let’s say somebody said something in front of other people that he was SURE they already knew, and only later realized he had given out a secret. OR let’s say somebody gives somebody else a ticket as a present, to go on a trip, and then something happens on the trip - that person might feel “guily” even though really they are not.
So I guess that is also something that happens…

But generally I would say most people’s conscience is a good indicator, doesn’t the chruch teach also that one must listen to their conscience? I mean, God gave it to us .

I have also been told that it is good to have a sensitive conscience. I agree, being conscientious and having a sensitive conscience is a good thing. Only if it gets OVERLY sensitive, to the point where one burdens oneself with unnecessary scrupling and exaggerated guilt feelings… well that is not so good anymore. But I think I can use the good parts of my sensitive conscience and be AWARE that I, as I wrote, must be careful to recognize when a guilt feeling is NOT an indicator of sinfulness, and usually with all those “doubtful sins”… well, I think if I had really committed a mortal sin, it would be more clear than that.

I can really only speak for myself.

Also not saying that detraction isn’t a bad thing. Of course it is, and it is very good to be careful about what we say about others. Or what we say aloud in front of other people. Good thing to try to not say negative things about other people at all, if it is not absolutely necessary, no matter if they are already known or not. Good thing to be a positive person. Good thing that when other people talk negatively about somebody, say something to their defense (like: There must have been a reason they acted that way; or: We should never jhudge other people because we don’t know their story, or: we should not talk negatively about other people.) Or say something like “I don’t want to know/hear this”, “I don’t want to talk bad about other people”, “this is none of my business”.

Any other (name removed by moderator)ut welcome, i am not sure if I stated this well.

Kathrin

 

[chefmomster2]

You said it perfectly!