Intention/wanting a mortal sin, but not committed

[Lizzy1980]

Hi all,

Got a question: I was hoping my fiance would start passionately/French kiss me. I knew it would have been a mortal sin if we did it. We didn’t do it because he didn’t initiate.

I know that the Catechism 1857 says that it must be COMMITTED (we didn’t passionately kiss, so it wasn’t committed), but St. Ignatius says, “when one gives consent to the bad thought, to act afterwards as he has consented, or to put it in act if he could (is a mortal sin).” So, I’m a little confused.

 

[MichaelHowling]

Christ mentions a similar situation:

“Even if a man LOOKS at a woman lustfully…they have already commited adultry in their heart”.

Commited thoughts/desires are as sinful as the action in regards to the individual willfully commiting the thought.

DId you know back then…if a parent told a child: “hey, think about what you are doing!” …The parent wouldint point to the brain…He’d point towards the heart! They thought thoughts and such, came from the heart. …just a fun fact.

In your case…to have a feeling of wanting a strong embrace from someone you love isin’t soooo horrible. Actually, a very naturalthing! You are expressing in your body and inate truth…You want to be “one” with this person! That’s a good thing! IF you sinned here…did your mental intention you were entertaining : was it simply lustful , a fake love directed only to pleasure for yourself OR was it more pure. If it had a more pure attitude to it (you noticed the GOOD …not just feely/physical sexual attributes to your loved one, maybe you didn’t sin at all!

God bless

 

[JRKH]

When in doubt consult your regular confessor.

Peace
James

 

[R_C]

a very natural thing! You are expressing in your body and inate truth…You want to be “one” with this person! That’s a good thing! IF you sinned here…did your mental intention you were entertaining : was it simply lustful , a fake love directed only to pleasure for yourself OR was it more pure

When in doubt consult your regular confessor.

:clapping:

Some acts belong in wedlock, but it’s the intention what truly makes the difference, in my understanding. Not all acts are done out of lust…they can spring out of sincere love. Two spouses kissing out of love for one another is much difference from two people kissing to experience the pleasure of the senses that this gives, in a selfish way.

Remember that the members of the unmarried couple have one great dignity, and the spouses have another great dignity. Each person in each state of life has great privileges and small duties. Embracing them, even if it takes some effort, brings true joy

 

[Bookcat]

Yes seeking that which is lustful is grave matter.

Intending it but not being able to carry it into action is also grave matter.

(Mortal sin requires grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent)

Mortal sin can take place interiorly --such is still committed.

See CCC intro about kinds of sin.

Bring the matter to confession – and note if there is any doubt in terms of the knowledge or consent.

 

[Zekariya]

Christ mentions a similar situation:

“Even if a man LOOKS at a woman lustfully…they have already commited adultry in their heart”.

I just want to add…

If I desired to look at porn and intended to look at porn but, when I tried the internet wasn’t working, I would still be guilty of the sin because in my heart I committed this sin though my actions did not.

 

[Bookcat]

I just want to add…

If I desired to look at porn and intended to look at porn but, when I tried the internet wasn’t working, I would still be guilty of the sin because in my heart I committed this sin though my actions did not.

Correct

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#II

 

[R_C]

I just want to add…

If I desired to look at porn and intended to look at porn but, when I tried the internet wasn’t working, I would still be guilty of the sin

Great point. Especially if I started to pull my hair out and got really mad at the internet, or other most probable gestures that express deliberate consent

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Yes seeking that which is lustful is grave matter.

Intending it but not being able to carry it into action is also grave matter.

(Mortal sin requires grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent)

Mortal sin can take place interiorly --such is still committed.

See CCC intro about kinds of sin.

Bring the matter to confession – and note if there is any doubt in terms of the knowledge or consent.

This is correct. For example, if one intends to rob a bank, but doesn’t because he chickens out at the last minute, or is stopped by the police, etc before he has a chance to rob the bank, he still technically committed a grave sin in that he had intended to.

 

[Bookcat]

This is correct. For example, if one intends to rob a bank, but doesn’t because he chickens out at the last minute, or is stopped by the police, etc before he has a chance to rob the bank, he still technically committed a grave sin in that he had intended to.

Right --or even if he repents later* before *the external act.

 

[MHT32]

I never understood why “passionate” kissing was a mortal sin, especially if it didnt tempt either person into any sexual thoughts/activity. Anyone help me on this?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I never understood why “passionate” kissing was a mortal sin, especially if it didnt tempt either person into any sexual thoughts/activity. Anyone help me on this?

The problem is your statement is more a theoretical construct of the imagination than a fact supported by the usual empiricial reality - esp for males, and esp when repeated.

Good luck with that one.

BTW “passionate kissing was a mortal sin” is prob not an accurate way of expressing things. Passionate kissing between the unmarried might be “grave matter” but it takes full intent and full understanding of what one is doing for this human act to be called a “mortal sin.”

Hormonal teens, by the very fact that they are acting under passion, prob do not have full intent. However if they purposely allowed/fuelled that passion to arise…that is another matter.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Right --or even if he repents later* before *the external act.

I think real life is not as clear cut as the morality manuals make out.
Depending on circumstances and maturity of those involved, sometimes not executing the interior intent into outward action can signify a lack of “full” intent in the first place. It depends on why it wasn’t carried through of course. If a young man “chickens out” it may be because he finally summoned enough bravery/conscience to overcome some inner/exterior coercion/temptation. This does not excuse culpability but may lessen it. Of course pure cowardice would not appear to offer much mitigation re intent.

It all very well to judge things as if we see inside people’s heads. most of the time we only see the outside - and even our own interior motivations/conflicts we sometimes cannot understand .

 

[JRKH]

I never understood why “passionate” kissing was a mortal sin, especially if it didnt tempt either person into any sexual thoughts/activity. Anyone help me on this?

Don’t know if I can really be of much help…but I will try…

Frankly I have never heard that “passionate kissing” is a mortal sin in and of itself.
However, the term itself is rather imprecise. Just what constitutes “passionate” may differ from person to person. Likewise one needs to know that the object of the “passion” is. So - what “passion” is being considered here?

Obviously in the case of kissing we are concerned with “passionate” in terms of sexual desire and arousal. The interconnectedness of the activity with arousal and desire can very swiftly move into temptation and inappropriate behavior.
You kiss…It’s nice…you desire more…you kiss more and more deeply…It’s nicer…you desire even more kissing…unintended arousal begins…that feels nice and feeds desire and so forth…

I hate to use the cliche term “slippery slope”…but in many cases that is exactly what it is - and I think we have all been there.

Naturally as young people…the first time these things happen they come as a surprise. So we cannot have committed a mortal sin since knowledge is defective. However as we move forward in our dating relationships our culpability increases.
If we choose to knowingly and actively seek out this stimulation and arousal because we desire this…then we are playing with fire…

I will stop here because, as I say, interaction of age, experience, curiosity, desire and arousal all play a pert and this is best discussed with a parent or a confessor.

Peace
James

 

[Bookcat]

I think real life is not as clear cut as the morality manuals make out.
Depending on circumstances and maturity of those involved, sometimes not executing the interior intent into outward action can signify a lack of “full” intent in the first place. It depends on why it wasn’t carried through of course.

I was discussing when one has indeed formed the intention to commit an external mortal sin with full knowledge and complete consent. Such has is the beginning of mortal sin. If he repents it is good and he has prevented himself from making matters much worse for himself. And he should thank God he did not carry it into external act and seek right away perfect contrition and confession as soon as possible --and follow Christ with joy.

Now could it be the case that one is strongly “tempted” but has not given in as described above --but does stop and repents of any sin there-- and now is in a state of doubt --did I knowingly give complete consent? Yes -it could be a “good sign” that he did not if say he could have easily did the external sin but did not…

Their confessor would be a good help.

Temptations can be strong – and one ought to take care not to confuse temptation with consent --as some do in their seeking to live a Christian life.