Inter-religious marriage (Catholic and Non-Denominational Christian)

[jlalonde14]

My Father was conservative catholic, Mother lutheran, sister Dalia Lama, other sister liberal catholic, brother Christian denomination

anyway it is diversity.

Tough deal but easy fix. Catholics believe they have ultimate truth and so do Christians. Everyone thinks only my religion makes it to heaven, hmmm

I would celebrate what you have in common with Christ which is so much and so very little on the secondary issue you disagree. Move forward in Christ for the sakes of kids and great family life. God Bless.

Thank you

 

[KellyPalmer]

I think a reminder of last Sunday’s readings would be nice. Whoever is not against us, is for us.

 

[KellyPalmer]

FWIW, I married a Protestant 12 years ago. He was raised in an anti-Catholic home and I knew I could not push him to Catholicism so I did not. Eventually, he came to admire my faith and chose to learn more on his own. He eventually went through RCIA and converted and now I am very very thankful to God for making that happen in our lives. God gave me my husband even though he was not Catholic and everything happened in His time.

 

[Dubay]

I will pray you find peace, love and Christ in your heart. Your post seems awfully angry and lacks forgiveness. A foundation of negativity is never what any Christian should espouse.

+J.M.J.
You should NEVER, NEVER marry a Protestant or anyone who is not a Traditional Catholic in a state of sanctifying grace. Such a marriage would never be blessed by the Lord God, and you would be putting your immortal soul in serious danger of damnation. Your Protestant wife will most likely pervert / weaken your Faith, and you may very well lose it. You have misused the glorious title of “Christian” above. While you refer to a Protestant as a “Christian,” she is in fact a heretic who has rejected Papal Infallibility, Transsubstantiation, the Immaculate Conception and Assumption of Our Lady, devotion to the Saints, the Priesthood, the place of Sacred Tradition, and many other INTEGRAL parts of true Christianity, namely the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church etc. and taken in its place all the Sola fide, Sola Scripture falsehoods. No one who “believes strongly in the Catholic Church and its [her] teachings” would do such a thing.

Despite what has been said above - YES, these are two religions : that which was founded by Jesus Christ, His Spotless Bride the Catholic Church - and the perverted heretical shoot-off founded by Martin Luther & company which shamefully and deceitfully calls itself “Christianity,” namely Protestantism.

Remember, outside the Church there is no salvation. There are no “levels” of Grace and Truth in different Protestant religions. It is either Truth or not, either the One True Church or not. You either scatter FOR our Blessed Redeemer or AGAINST Him.

Would you ever even think of bringing up children as Protestants, just to please your Protestant wife ? How shameful and cowardly ! Are we to please men (or women,) especially heretics in a state of mortal sin, or please Jesus Christ ? If you truly loved your wife, you would marry her only on the condition that she:

1. leaves her false Protestant religion and embraces Traditional Catholicism
2. agrees to raise your children in Catholic Tradition, including having as many children as God wills, teaching modesty, etc.

If you would so dare as to bow down to your wife in regard to salvation, the most important business of your life as St. Alphonsus says, what you are doing is not manly, not virtuous, and despicable in the sight of the Lord God. Doing this, and then bringing up children in Protestant error will earn them a definite place in Hell - and for you, right at the very bottom. The Catholics who “believe strongly in the Church and her teachings” and then reject them are the ones burning the furthest down in the pit of Hell. They spit in the face of Jesus Christ, Who suffered and died for your salvation. And what about the children ? YOU WOULD BE TEACHING THEM LIES. Remember what Our Lord said to those who led the little children astray - it would have been better to have had a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea, still never to have been born…

A marriage like you said would never be blessed by the Lord God or by the Catholic Church. It would be an abomination before His eyes. But remember, Our Lord wills you to be saved ! As a father, you DO need to ensure the salvation of your wife and children as well. If your Protestant fiancée is not willing to leave error, then it is not God’s Will for you to be married. Instead, look for a good Traditionalist Catholic woman, a woman of God and a true daughter of Mary. God will provide, and He will reward you with a special place in Heaven if you obey Him and do His Will. Speaking of which - Who better to ask for help in knowing and doing perfectly the Will of God than the Blessed Virgin Mary Herself ? Run to Her and ask Her for help ! She is Our Mother of Perpetual Help and She WILL help you and all who invoke Her !

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Thank you for the response. I do not understand how I am “endangering” my soul if the children were raised Christian and not Catholic. Do you believe Christians do not go to heaven? The ultimate goal as a father is to get your family to heaven, correct?

The problem is threefold:

1. In order to be validly married in the Church, you MUST promise to try to raise them Catholic (and your wife must at least be aware of this promise). Breaking this promise is breaking a promise to God and very bad. Catholics who try to get married outside the Church are not validly married and are living in grave sin (so long as they know this etc). So there is no way to be married without making the promise, and no way to try to raise your Children as non-Catholics without breaking it.
2. Any given non-Catholic Christian may or may not go to heaven on an individual basis (just like any given Catholic), but confusion about the truth is a hindrance rather than a help. The more truth you know, the easier it is to follow it. While there is a fair amount of truth present in all Protestant sects (some more than others) it is Catholicism that contains the fullness of truth and thus the information that will give a person the best shot and leading the life God wants them to lead, and eventually joining Him in heaven. Catholics by definition believe this. If you are Catholic and you do not do your best to pass this truth to your children, then you are not doing your best to pass on to them best means to live a Godly life and see God in heaven. This is a grave contradiction of your duties as a parent.
3. Catholics believe Catholicism to be true, to be the fullness of the Christian faith. Agreeing to teach your children otherwise when you believe this to be true is agreeing to lie to your children and deny part of Christ’s teaching to them.

Of course, your fiance may very well believe something similar about her faith, and this could present a problem. My dad is Baptist(ish) and my mom is Catholic. The four of us children are Catholic, but from what I hear there was some… friction early on. I may not have been born, and I certainly wasn’t old enough to remember, but from what I hear it was tough.

Of course, that was 30-something years ago. Their marriage worked out and is working out well. It’s certainly possible and I wish you all the best in yours - but this issue could be problematic.

It might be good to join a marriage prep course now. They’ll go over all this I’m sure.

 

[Communication]

There are a lot of energetic posts here. I just wanted to add from my personal opinion that I think you could peacefully and successfully raise children understanding both religions as an inter-religion couple. But I do think the success of it may depend on the personality of the two of you. To summarize an important aspect of a personality theory in psychology, everyone is either dominant in values and ideals, or impersonal analysis. Everyone has both, but it would be helpful to identify which you and your partner are dominant in. If you are both impersonal and objective, great, you can talk things out and teach things without emotions and values getting in the way which would most-likely lead to very open-minded children. If only one of you is impersonal, then that one will have to understand the reasoning behind the decision and will likely have to explain the reasoning to the value type. If you are both value oriented it will be very difficult to teach the children to stay open-minded to both religions, because disagreements are common between these types and they could be very unbending to someone being perceived as trying to compromise their opinions. I hope you find this useful in your engagement and marriage plans.

 

[SMHW]

John, it probably would have been better had you posted this in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum. You would have gotten responses from people who know a great deal about the rules and regulations of marriage between Catholics and non-Catholics.

The first thing you need to do is to meet with your pastor. Your priest can explain what is required. The priest is allowed to do certain things but he must abide by the laws of the Catholic Church and by any special rules put in place by the bishop in charge of your diocese.

When someone is baptized as a Catholic (or formally received into the Catholic Church) he becomes subject to the laws of the Catholic Church in addition to the laws for which God holds all Christians and non-Christians accountable. One of the laws that Catholics must obey is to be “married in the Church”. In this case the word “in” does not refer to a physical location but rather means “according to the rules and regulations of” and the word “Church” refers specifically to the Catholic Church. If you fail to follow the rules of the Catholic Church you cease to be a Catholic in good standing and your “marriage” would not be recognized as valid by the Church.

One of these “Catholic regulations” is that you may not marry someone who is not Catholic unless you have the permission of the bishop. Another rules is that you cannot be married in a location other than a Catholic church unless you have a dispensation from the bishop. Now it is usually fairly easy to get permission to marry a non-Catholic Christian. (For purposes of this discussion, “Christian” mean someone who was baptized according to the Trinitarian formula.) You can usually get a dispensation to get married in the church of the non-Catholic spouse but if you want to get married in another location the bishop would have to approve it.

Even if you chose to marry in a location other than your parish church you will still be expected to complete Catholic marriage preparation. One of the things the Church will expect is that you promise to do all in your power to have your children raised as Catholics. Your intended will not be required to make such a promise but she will be notified of the promise you make.

Congratulations on your engagement and prayers for this period of preparation.

 

[St_Donatus]

Thank you

I noticed that Dubay is the one you responded to. Is this because this answer is the one you want. First, pray to God about this for understanding. Remember, don’t expect his blessing on your relationship if you can’t put him first. You need to discuss this with your fiance. She needs to know that to be true to your faith, you MUST bring the kids up Catholic.

If you saw a thousand dollar bill float by your window while flying on a plane, would you jump out of the plane to get it if the flight attendant told you it was safe? How important are your future children to you? Ever since the time of Christ the Catholic Church has said that there is no salvation apart from his Church. That remains today. Jesus also said that only those baptized would be saved. Dubay’s family situation is a perfect example of what happens in mixed marriages. Most of his family aren’t even Catholic anymore.

Many people leave the Catholic Church or don’t join the Catholic Church because it requires that you not partake of the sins of this world. Yes, some protestants will end up in heaven, but with much difficulty and that only if they have invincable ignorance.

I followed Dubay’s recommendation many years ago to my great regret. My daughter has no religion and has many issues. She doesn’t have God to rely on. My non-Catholic wife from whom I am divorced after only two years, has ruined my daughters life. (She had custody.) I wanted several children but my ex-wife wanted to party and have fun. My ex-wife has had a miserable life without God and has attempted suicide several times. Do you really want to take the risk? I am sure your fiance is a much finer person than my ex-wife, but similar issues could come up if you don’t take a stand now.

You need to pray to God for understanding. He will bless your efforts and your love for her if you put him first. If you don’t, don’t expect his blessing on your relationship.

 

[mountee]

You have received excellent information regarding the Catholic Church and its rules and teaching regarding marriage. I agree with most of what has been stated and the advice you have been given. I am married almost 40 years to a non-Catholic and we have raised 2 children who are Catholic and they and their spouses are raising our 5 grandchildren Catholic. I would like to say something to you regarding your future marriage and I hope you won’t mind, it is just based on my experience. As you go down the years you will find that if you and your wife share a faith and its rules and regulations you will be enriched by the sharing and your children will see a unified presence. Can you successfully raise children in a “mixed” religion marriage, of course, but is it easy, my experience says no. I would urge you to try to come together on this ahead of time. One thing that you have learned today and you cannot unlearn it is, to be a true Catholic you must follow the rules, which have already been stated clearly. One of those rules is that you promise to do your best to raise your children Catholic. I feel you have some soul searching to do as this does not fit with all you have stated. God bless you both as you travel this path.

 

[Jose045]

Hi. I am in a similar situation.

Remember to avoid saying someone is Christian and the other Catholic. We Catholics are Christian-the first ones and the ones with the fullness of the faith. The person is Protestant or Catholic, but both are Christians.

My situation, as I said, is similar. My fiance was baptized Catholic and as a child was pulled into the Pentecostal ideology. Now she is “non-denominational”. We are to be married in a couple of weeks and I am very torn. You see, we are supposed to be married in the civil court, not a church, because that is “neutral”. Later, in the spring or summer, we will have the marriage Con-validated in the Catholic Church. I am doing this because I love her and she has been through a great deal with the BS in other “churches”. She is very wary of institutions because of some very negative experiences. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church appears to her to be very overbearing in some things and though she wants to learn more she is a bit apprehensive.

I have tried to explain but there is only so much a person can do before it comes across as forcing things.

We’ve known each other for 13 years and she is very devout and very caring. I can’t imagine a more trustworthy Christ loving woman. She has, among other things, held herself until marriage-and she is 40. This kills me because it would make a wedding at the Church so much more meaningful.
I know she loves me and I love her… but again I am extremely sad that she will not concede to a marriage in the Church. I know I won’t be able to take the Eucharist until the Con-validation and that is really getting me depressed-but my hope and prayers are that by suffering a bit I can help her come back.

I must also say that because of this I am struggling with a developing pronounced dislike of Protestantism (not the people but the ideology). The more I see of it, especially the non-denominational/evangelical side, the more I notice sheer ignorance wrapped in arrogance and willful blindness. The comments so many make about Catholicism range from ignorant to bigoted to just plain asinine beyond comprehension. It’s just such chaos-institutionalized chaos propagated by blatant refusal to accept any authority but personal opinion! I see the DE-formation, honestly, as something satanically inspired. Thank God our separated non-Catholic brothers and sisters are not so, but they do contribute to the division of Christ’s church when they try to “recruit” Catholics and when they offer erroneous doctrine.

Anyway, good luck. My prayers to you and yours, and if anyone reading this will say a prayer for me and mine I will appreciate it.

Deus lo vult!
:knight1:

 

[pensmama87]

…but again I am extremely sad that she will not concede to a marriage in the Church. I know I won’t be able to take the Eucharist until the Con-validation and that is really getting me depressed-but my hope and prayers are that by suffering a bit I can help her come back.

Now and then I read this on the forums - “I am sad that I won’t be able to take the Eucharist.”

I am going to be blunt here, but I am not trying to be mean or rude: are you aware why you will not be able to take the Eucharist? Because that marriage ceremony in court does not count. From the time that occurs, until the convalidation (which is a Church wedding, by the way) - you will be fornicating if you sleep with your “wife.”

Sometimes on CAF and in other places we don’t put it like that because the couple already went through the civil ceremony and had zero idea at the time what they were getting into. But you know. Why on earth would you put your mortal soul in danger by doing what you’re planning on doing? Just wait until the Church wedding. *That’s what a convalidation is. * The usual pomp and circumstance doesn’t usually accompany it because the big party already happened, but it’s still a wedding. Why would your intended be willing to go through with a wedding after the civil ceremony, but not instead of? If you’re in the US or many other countries, the priest can give you the same legal documentation you’ll get at the civil ceremony.

 

[Xantippe]

pensmama87 said:

“I am going to be blunt here, but I am not trying to be mean or rude: are you aware why you will not be able to take the Eucharist? Because that marriage ceremony in court does not count. From the time that occurs, until the convalidation (which is a Church wedding, by the way) - you will be fornicating if you sleep with your “wife.””

Yes–it would be really sad to do so well up to that point and then “choke” at the end. Plus, if your future wife ever converts, it’s going to make her feel bad and regretful about the beginning of your marriage, which would be very sad.

Please explore your options–there are a lot of good, pastoral ones that will work in your situation.

 

[Jose045]

You guys were not rude. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut!

What options do you mean?

The problem I am having is that she was part of a Pentecostal “church” as a child for many years. She experienced a great amount of control and psychological/spiritual abuse there so she is traumatized. She has turned to the “non-denominational” ideology because it does not feel controlling, and she sees the Catholic Church as a huge institution: holding a lot of power/control. I want to explain things to her but it hits a wall in that she thinks I am not thinking for myself etc.sometimes.
This situation has shown me just how evil and diabolical the DE-formation was!

 

[pensmama87]

I guess what is tripping me up is that she’s willing to do the convalidation at all despite her serious misgivings regarding the Church. If she is, then why does she want to do a civil ceremony in addition?

Here’s what I see as your options:

1. Just wait for the church wedding. You’re going to have to go through all the same prep anyway.
2. Move the civil ceremony much closer to the wedding, like the day before. Wait to consummate the marriage until after the real wedding.
3. Continue with ceremonies as planned but live as brother and sister until the real wedding.
4. Postpone the wedding so you can discern whether this woman is worth jeopardizing the fate of your eternal soul. She doesn’t understand this, but you do - you know that if you proceed as planned, you won’t have access to the sacraments until the marriage is convalidated.

(I know you said this woman is 40, but have you discussed what you will do if you have children? Many women are fertile into their 40s. You’re under an obligation to raise your children Catholic, and she would be informed of this obligation. Based on what you’ve said here, I don’t know that that would go over well.)

 

[Jose045]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I sat down and wrote her a letter explaining the situation. I did this so that my point can be made without interruptions or sidetracking. She has read it and we are going to discuss options.
In the letter I explained that she, as a non-denominational Christian, is free to marry in any church, at the beach, a house, etc. I, as a Catholic, must marry in the Church/have the marriage convalidated. I explained the importance of the Eucharist and that I won’t be able to take it until marriage is convalidated.
I also explained that since she has held herself even onto being 40, she needs a real wedding in a real dress in Church, not in some city courtroom. What celebration would that be?
I also told her that if she truly believes that some of the things I do as a Catholic (like praying to saints/Mary, etc.) are wrong then she has to reconsider us marrying as that would make me a heathen and against God. Either what I believe is right or it is horrifically wrong. I asked her to not just ask why something is wrong, but to ask IF it is wrong and why, and base her reply on honest research and the truth. God, after all, is always right.
We are going to talk about it.
We have been living together like brother and sister for about six months. I moved over 2,000 miles after losing my job because she found out I was homeless (living in my car) in the snow and became sickly worried. I tried to stay firm and say no but she had a way with saying she needed my help etc. I haven’t been able to find a job yet and we wound up in the same place. Now she lost her job. I am praying that I find a job soon.
We have not had intercourse, but my goodness sometimes it is difficult! She is 40 but does not look it at all. She is a gorgeous woman in every way: her personality, her face, her body…
What gives me strength has to be God. I also think of the damage it would do for us to ruin such a thing. And I think that this is a battle for our souls.
I have thought of letting a preacher friend do the vows and then we can get the marriage convalidated. But if we still have to go through all of the requirements to get the convalidation before we consummate the marriage-what’s the point?
My priest said he will marry us as soon as all the requirements are done.
We’ve known each other for over 13 years so this is a “unique” situation.

Let me add that I keep learning just how awful the De-formation and its effects are. She said she used to go to a church that had a communion service and even called it the Eucharist. I was shocked. Its no wonder there is so much confusion and refusal to return to the Church! So many of these “churches” have absolutely no shame at all about taking what’s convenient from Catholicism and calling it their own. I’ve heard people complain that the Church used to quell heresy even by force. Now I understand why.

 

[elizabethdraper]

***3. Continue with ceremonies as planned but live as brother and sister until the real wedding.

---

I did this with my husband. We didn’t sleep in the same room or kiss or anything. However, were not allowed to go to confession or receive communion. The priest said that the civil ceremony was a sin, and it would have been better just to live together as brother and sister, without the civil ceremony, so we could have continued receiving communion.

 

[Jose045]

The civil ceremony is cancelled. We are continuing a celebration but only for getting the marriage license.

We spoke yesterday about this. She became very upset at first but then calmed down. She does just not fully understand yet, but I am confident that with love, patience, and God’s work she will come to understand. I have to try really hard though because some of the beliefs are so nefariously undermining approaching the truth.

She believes that Jesus implemented an invisible church so I am going to sit with her later and show her how the bible does not back that up but in fact refutes it.

It is only through entering her world that I have seen just how damaging the de-formation was, and how terribly chaotic Protestantism is. I am still learning things that are just so contrary to reason and faith that it seems only the blind and the mad would follow it. I believe that the height of evil is when good is misrepresented to propagate error. Dear God-that so many people are so adamant about what they don’t know!

Yesterday someone we know (who is in her same faith group) had a car accident-not serious just a dent. We went to the person and she was fine (as was the other driver). We went to eat and the comment was made by this person that the devil is surely furious and trying to do her harm because she misplaced her cell-phone yesterday and then she had the accident. The devil is just given way too much credit! It is very frustrating!

Anyway…

Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut-it has been a great help. I hope you continue to give opinions. And some prayers would be helpful.

Thank you!

:knight1:
Deus lo vult!

 

[MJJean]

What’s your priest like? Is he a warm and welcoming person? The reason I ask is that it could make a big difference to your fiance and your marriage, not to mention future inter-faith understanding.

I was raised loosely Lutheran. We didn’t attend services very often, but my mom believed. I became Pagan as an teen and into adulthood. I met and married my husband, who was raised Catholic. He’d fallen away and was also Pagan at the time. Civil ceremony. Together we journeyed from Pagan to Atheist to Agnostic.

Around Easter 2013 my husband decided to attend Mass for the first time in over 20 years. I had no objection, after all he is an adult and free to practice whatever religion he wishes. After a little while, about 2-3 months, I got curious and attended Mass with him. I was very nervous and had a lot of misconceptions about the Church and it’s teachings. I was sure I wouldn’t be welcome there, etc. I am now in the process of conversion to Catholicism.

I did some research on my own through reputable websites not only into the teachings of the Church, but the reasons why the Church has those teachings. I spent some time talking to the priest and the nun who is pastoral assistant. They were kind, compassionate, welcoming, and all around awesome. God lead me to the Church, but that priest and nun made me feel truly welcome and that’s what made all the difference.

Perhaps you could get your future wife to meet with your priest and talk about her issues and concerns in addition to the Church rules and why they exist. Perhaps she would even be willing to take RCIA. One does not have any obligation to convert if they take RCIA and there are many people who take the classes as a refresher if they are reverting, because they simply want to learn about the faith, or because they are converting. If not, there are plenty of good books often recommended here such as Rome Sweet Rome and Catholoicism for Dummies. If she doesn’t want to convert, fine. But she would at least understand your faith and why you do what you do and believe what you believe.

In case you’re wondering, yes, we are in an invalid marriage due to me having been previously married and divorced and my husband having been a Baptized Catholic who did not marry in the Church or with a dispensation. So, I have applied for annulment and we are waiting as patiently as possible to have a convalidation once the annulment is complete. Trust me, you want to marry validly. If you do not it will always nag at you. Do it right, marry before a priest or at least get a dispensation to marry otherwise.

Since you mentioned being unemployed I imagine money might be an issue. You can marry in a small ceremony in the priests office if need be. Doing it right doesn’t have to mean a lot of muss and fuss and expense.

 

[Jose045]

MJJean,
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Your story is one of redemption and I pray your journey into a Church marriage is swift and happy.

My priest has been very nice-he does not mince words though, which I find refreshing. I am in the process of starting the classes for marriage. The RCIA idea is a great one. I will volunteer to go again if she agrees.

I agree about doing it right. The idea of a civil ceremony was tearing my insides out. I felt like a traitor and a coward. I have spoken to her and the civil ceremony is off.

The greatest hurdle is really the confusion that she has been taught. It is very frustrating because these Hispanic “churches” (I am Hispanic) are very good at distorting the facts.

As I mentioned in another post-Hispanics who leave Catholicism and especially those who are adamant evangelicals/non-denominationals are the worst. I believe it is because the Catholic Faith is so engrained into the Hispanic culture that it takes a particularly nefarious system of lies and deceit to make the abandonment work.

I’ve heard these “churches” even claim they are giving communion and use the name Eucharist. They have no shame at all.

It is a huge obstacle when someone believes-has been taught-that Jesus founded an invisible church.

These "churches"also do a lot of anti-religion talking-basically saying that Pharisees represent religious people. It’s a clever way to remove the idea of an authority.

It’s a mind game played very expertly. But it is still amazing to see people reject authority and bounce from preacher to preacher, each with different ideas, and have no problem with that. It is basically a blinding sickness I believe. It is bizarre.

So I have to carefully get my fiance to open up to the idea that the Catholic Church is THE Church, but at least for now that she at least agrees to a wedding in the Church. She is still very apprehensive.

I mean, it says a lot when someone calls themselves “non-denominational” but does not want to marry in the Catholic Church because its not their faith. A yard, beach, house, park, or most any denomination is fine-but not the Catholic Church. It’s pretty sick.
I will continue to pray, for you as well.

May God bless you and your husband with a swift blessing of your marriage!

:knight1:
Deus lo vult!

 

[BunnyLover]

Hi everyone,

I recently got engaged to my beautiful fiance back in July. We are planning on getting married Spring of 2014. I am Catholic and she is Christian. We are both very faithful in our religions. I believe strongly in the Catholic Church and its teachings. She is very unfamiliar with Catholicism and I have slowly introduced it to her and brought her to mass with me. Anyways, my main concern and question(s) are since we are of different religions, can we have a priest say our wedding even though she is not Catholic and do I receive the sacrament of marriage? Also it has been her dream to have a beach destination wedding. Will a priest do a marriage outside of a Church? Thanks.

John

See if you can find a Catholic Shrine that is located by the shore. You will have an easier time getting a dispensation to be wed at a shrine than to be wed on a beach alone.