Inter-religious Prayer and Dialogue

[Augustine87]

I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. No one comes to the Father but by Me. - John 14:6

If Jesus Christ is who we must pray through to reach the Father and be heard, then it stands to reason for any Christian, that the Prayers of any other religion that doesnt acknowledge Jesus Christ as our Mediator aren’t heard. How, then, can any Christian become a part of Inter-religious prayer. We should be showing them the good news of Jesus Christ, so that they may be saved, not patting them on the back, saying, you are ok just the way you are. I mean Muslims don’t even consider God to be the Father, because Allah does not beget nor is he begotten. Am i right?

 

[Eleve]

If Jesus Christ is who we must pray through to reach the Father and be heard, then it stands to reason for any Christian, that the Prayers of any other religion that doesnt acknowledge Jesus Christ as our Mediator aren’t heard.

Wrong on so many levels:

1. That quote from Jesus is only relevant to salvation, which is only through his sacrifice on the cross. It cannot be applied to prayer, or else (among other things) the prayers of Old Testament Jews would not be heard by the Father.
2. Even the Lord’s Prayer does not go through Jesus. It is made directly to “Our Father, Who art in Heaven.”
3. There is no indication in this or any other passage that belief in God the Son is necessary for God’s grace to work through Him. This would be contrary to the Church’s teaching on Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.
4. God is all-knowing. How can a prayer not be heard by Him?

 

[Augustine87]

Wrong on so many levels:

1. That quote from Jesus is only relevant to salvation, which is only through his sacrifice on the cross. It cannot be applied to prayer, or else (among other things) the prayers of Old Testament Jews would not be heard by the Father.

There are many things that changed after Christ established His New Covenant. The prayers of the Jews were heard because God had a Covenant with them. Were the Prayers of monotheists (Zoroastrians), outside of God’s Covenant with the Jews, heard during the time of the Old Testament? That is why God establishes Covenants, so that men might have access to Him. If you aren’t within that Covenant, then you are talking to thin air.

 

[Eleve]

Thin air? God only exists if you believe in him?

 

[DebChris]

Is the OT irrelevant? Did God not hear the prayers of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Did He not respond to Elijah?
Muslims believe they are the descendants of Ishmael, the other son of Abraham. See Genesis Chapter 17 in which Abraham, at the age of ninety-nine is told that he will have a son by his wife Sarah:
Then Abraham said to God, “let but Ishmael live on by your favor.”
God replied, “Nevertheless, your wife Sarah is to bear you a son, and your shall call him Isaac. I will maintain my covenant with him as an everlasting pact, to be his God and the God of his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I am heeding you. I hereby bless him. I will make him the father of twelve chieftains, and I will make of hm a great nation. But my covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.”
All male members of Abraham’s household were circumcised, including Ismael.

 

[Augustine87]

As for Ishmael, I am heeding you. I hereby bless him. I will make him the father of twelve chieftains, and I will make of hm a great nation. But my covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year."

God maintained His covenant with Isaac’s people, not with Ishmael’s, so that kicks the Muslim’s claims to God out on the street. Jesus’ New Covenant was the fulfillment of the Old one. The Old Covenant is now cut away and the New Covenant is grafted on, and that kicks the Jews claims to God out on the street. Christians, who by the way were first Jews who accepted God’s New Covenant, are now the true Children of Israel, because they accept God’s continually unfolding plan. Don’t you people ever read Scott Hahn’s Covenant Theology?

 

[Eleve]

God maintained His covenant with Isaac’s people, not with Ishmael’s, so that kicks the Muslim’s claims to God out on the street.

Nobody here is affirming Islam, although if I were I hardly suppose I would accept God’s covenant with Isaac, as described in the Torah, as a premise.

Jesus’ New Covenant was the fulfillment of the Old one. The Old Covenant is now cut away and the New Covenant is grafted on, and that kicks the Jews claims to God out on the street. Christians, who by the way were first Jews who accepted God’s New Covenant, are now the true Children of Israel, because they accept God’s continually unfolding plan. Don’t you people ever read Scott Hahn’s Covenant Theology?

Is that the Church’s theology, or Scott Hahn’s theology?

 

[Augustine87]

Is that the Church’s theology, or Scott Hahn’s theology?

Their theology is one and the same. Scott does not come up with new theology, he merely explains the Church’s current biblical theology. He is Professor of Theology at Steubenville Catholic University. He is praised often by this very website, and is very much approved by the Church.
Now I will ask, “Do you people read much?”

 

[DebChris]

Dialogue, by definition is communication across differences. There can be no communication without first starting with that which is held in common. Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all descendants of Abraham.
Does God hear the prayers of those who are not Christian? Has God changed? Does He go back on His Word?
When Hagar ran away from Sarai, the Lord’s messenger found her by a spring in the wilderness on the road to Shur:
Besides, the Lord’s messenger said to her: You are now pregnant and shall bear a son; you shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard you, God has answered you.
While the covenant does indeed remain with Israel, Ishmael continued to be blessed. His mother’s prayer was heard. Abraham’s prayer likewise was heard even before God made his covenant with him and his descendants forever (see Romans 4).

While I may be familiar with the work of Scott Hahn, no, I have not read his Covenant Theology. I would suspect too that he would be at odds with the OP’s interpretation of his work.
My primary source for what the Church teaches comes from the CCC and the US Bishops with their* United States Catechism of the Catholic Church* based on the CCC. The last I looked, it is the bishops in union with the pope who make up the magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church, not a lay theologian regardless of how gifted.
I have other books on my reading list. There are two millennium of saints to read.

 

[Augustine87]

My primary source for what the Church teaches comes from the CCC and the US Bishops with their* United States Catechism of the Catholic Church* based on the CCC. The last I looked, it is the bishops in union with the pope who make up the magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church, not a lay theologian regardless of how gifted.
I have other books on my reading list. There are two millennium of saints to read.

I have many bookshelves covered with Saints, Popes, and Doctors of the Church as well.
My point is why must we equally yoke ourselves with those who deny Christ’s saving power? Those who deny Jesus as Lord and Savior for all who believe on Him. He is the Beginning and the End. If you trust in Him and follow his commandments He will save your soul that was born headed to Hell. Saint Paul is probably rolling his eyes in heaven when he looks down here and sees all this “you’re ok, i’m ok, we’re all ok; so long as we feel happy following any religious tradition that makes us feel good, because in the end they all lead to god” liberal mess. He was a man that was not afraid of getting into it with a Rabbi or a Pagan who failed to recognize Jesus Christ as LORD. The Catholic Church is weakening, and becoming smaller every day because Catholics everywhere are adopting this attitude about the Gospel. We are going to be our own demise if we don’t stop trying to get all buddy-buddy with those who reject God. If you reject the Son then you have also rejected the Father.

 

[Eleve]

And the Son told us to shun nonbelievers?

 

[DebChris]

I have many bookshelves covered with Saints, Popes, and Doctors of the Church as well.
My point is why must we equally yoke ourselves with those who deny Christ’s saving power? Those who deny Jesus as Lord and Savior for all who believe on Him. He is the Beginning and the End. If you trust in Him and follow his commandments He will save your soul that was born headed to Hell. Saint Paul is probably rolling his eyes in heaven when he looks down here and sees all this “you’re ok, i’m ok, we’re all ok; so long as we feel happy following any religious tradition that makes us feel good, because in the end they all lead to god” liberal mess. He was a man that was not afraid of getting into it with a Rabbi or a Pagan who failed to recognize Jesus Christ as LORD. The Catholic Church is weakening, and becoming smaller every day because Catholics everywhere are adopting this attitude about the Gospel. We are going to be our own demise if we don’t stop trying to get all buddy-buddy with those who reject God. If you reject the Son then you have also rejected the Father.

Who says we have yoked ourselves who deny Christ’s saving power? How can they hear the word of God unless we first engage in conversation, not with the attitude of “I have the answer and you are wrong,” but rather by learning first what it is that we do have in common?
Those who do not believe, first see the life we live before they will hear the words we say. One of the differences between Catholic missionaries and those of other denominations is the acceptance of religious and other traditions that are not at odds with the Catholic faith. Pagan traditions such as the Christmas tree become Christianized to represent the eternal life that we have received.
What kept the sheik from converting to Christianity after meeting with St. Francis? It was how Christians lived their lives contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The first command that we are to follow is that of love.
Or as my father used to say, “You will not receive respect unless you first show respect.” Respecting another person’s viewpoint and listening to what they have to say does not mean engaging in activities/worship contrary to our own personal conviction and faith. So yes, we do set boundaries.
Each of the major religions shares the golden rule, although its wording may differ slightly based on culture. This is where I start all conversations.

 

[Augustine87]

Who says we have yoked ourselves who deny Christ’s saving power? How can they hear the word of God unless we first engage in conversation, not with the attitude of “I have the answer and you are wrong,” but rather by learning first what it is that we do have in common?
Those who do not believe, first see the life we live before they will hear the words we say. One of the differences between Catholic missionaries and those of other denominations is the acceptance of religious and other traditions that are not at odds with the Catholic faith. Pagan traditions such as the Christmas tree become Christianized to represent the eternal life that we have received.
What kept the sheik from converting to Christianity after meeting with St. Francis? It was how Christians lived their lives contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The first command that we are to follow is that of love.
Or as my father used to say, “You will not receive respect unless you first show respect.” Respecting another person’s viewpoint and listening to what they have to say does not mean engaging in activities/worship contrary to our own personal conviction and faith. So yes, we do set boundaries.
Each of the major religions shares the golden rule, although its wording may differ slightly based on culture. This is where I start all conversations.

You say all this, but the reality is the Church is becoming smaller at a faster rate than it ever has before. It’s influence on the world is decreasing. I completely agree with respect for the person, but not his/her views if they are contrary to God’s plan of salvation. You are perverting the Gospel to say wat you want it to say. Because you are a coward for the faith. Why did the Pope not evangelize to all the other religious leaders at his meeting in the United States back in '08. That seems like it would have been a perfect opportunity to spread the faith. Men die trying to spread the Gospel and you people want to hold hands with the ones who kill them.

 

[Eleve]

You say all this, but the reality is the Church is becoming smaller at a faster rate than it ever has before.

The Church is growing. It more than doubled in size from 1950 to 2000. And it is growing at an even faster rate than the world population.

Why did the Pope not evangelize to all the other religious leaders at his meeting in the United States back in '08.

Would you expect the leaders of other faiths to change their minds so trivially?

 

[Claire_from_DE]

As for Ishmael, I am heeding you. I hereby bless him. I will make him the father of twelve chieftains, and I will make of hm a great nation. But my covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year."

Although Ishmael didn’t inherit the promises of the covenant, God still cared for him.

God maintained His covenant with Isaac’s people, not with Ishmael’s, so that kicks the Muslim’s claims to God out on the street. Jesus’ New Covenant was the fulfillment of the Old one. The Old Covenant is now cut away and the New Covenant is grafted on, and that kicks the Jews claims to God out on the street. Christians, who by the way were first Jews who accepted God’s New Covenant, are now the true Children of Israel, because they accept God’s continually unfolding plan. Don’t you people ever read Scott Hahn’s Covenant Theology?

By a covenant, God binds a people to himself. But God isn’t limited by the covenant from extending his grace and care to other individuals.

 

[DebChris]

You say all this, but the reality is the Church is becoming smaller at a faster rate than it ever has before. It’s influence on the world is decreasing. I completely agree with respect for the person, but not his/her views if they are contrary to God’s plan of salvation. You are perverting the Gospel to say wat you want it to say. Because you are a coward for the faith. Why did the Pope not evangelize to all the other religious leaders at his meeting in the United States back in '08. That seems like it would have been a perfect opportunity to spread the faith. Men die trying to spread the Gospel and you people want to hold hands with the ones who kill them.

You do not know me or the stands I have taken in defense of my beliefs. The accuser of our brothers has been cast out, who accused them day and night. Have you lived where the Christian faith is not the dominant faith? I have and I am again headed to such a place. The lives we live say more than our words. If I do not respect the person I meet on the street, how will he/she listen to the Gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ? The best form of evangelization begins with relationship building, with the building of trust.
St. Paul did not set out to antagonize the world, at least not after his conversion. He no longer killed for his faith. Rather those to whom he spoke refused to believe. Yes, he did use that which was held in common to begin his preaching. In Athens, he pointed to the statue in honor of the unknown god. Shipwrecked on an island, the natives saw that he was unharmed when bitten by a poisonous snake.
I am on God’s timetable. My job may simply be to plant the seed of faith as others observe how I live my own life.

I read a story of a Native American who converted to Christianity because he saw in the Communion of Saints similarities to the 14 generations in which a person is affected by the lives of the seven generations who lived before him and affects the lives of the seven generations who come after. For a Muslim, it was the Koran that brought him to Christ. Muslims believe that the devil touches a newborn. There is only one person who remained untouched, Jesus Christ. It was during one of the Muslim prayer times that he saw a vision of Christ and was converted. I do not underestimate the power of God to touch hearts.