Inter-sexed Children

[Raider_Red]

I am working on a case study involving inter-sexed children. I am trying to figure out all of the moral implications involved for the parents that are having to make several decisions in the process. The biggest question is whether or not the parents should choose for the child at birth and move forward with certain surgical procedures or not. Should the parent wait until the child can make a decision later on in life since it will primarily affect them the most or does the parent make that call. What I’m needing help on here is to be pointed in the direction of any Church documents, references in the Catechism of the CC, in the compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church or any other Church-backed piece of literature that might help me. I haven’t found anywhere that directly speaks to the topic at hand but I know there is information that is helpful.

I see things such as parents as a child’s legal guardian has the duty to do what’s in the best interest of the child until they are able to make decisions on their own. This particular decision is a more complicated one than others and I need to find out some things the Church would have to say to help influence my case and decision. Any help or direction would be much appreciated.

 

[OraLabora]

Consequences of changing sex without knowing the child’s sexual identity.

I realize the above case is not per se an intersex situation, but it does illustrate the danger of “assuming” you can impose a sexual identity on a child. I should think it prudent to hold off any surgery until sexual identity has been clearly established.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

What I’m needing help on here is to be pointed in the direction of any Church documents, references in the Catechism of the CC, in the compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church or any other Church-backed piece of literature that might help me. I haven’t found anywhere that directly speaks to the topic at hand but I know there is information that is helpful.

I see things such as parents as a child’s legal guardian has the duty to do what’s in the best interest of the child until they are able to make decisions on their own. This particular decision is a more complicated one than others and I need to find out some things the Church would have to say to help influence my case and decision. Any help or direction would be much appreciated.

There’s nothing official, only vague guidance and principles.

Intersex advocates - like myself, for I’m Intersexed - recommend two things, on the basis of our own experiences, and follow-up studies. I’ll get into those later.

The one thing we do know from the Church is that sex is set at birth, and surgical and hormonal intervention cannot alter that. All such changes are superficial. (See the *Sub Secretum *document on transsexuality sent to Bishops worldwide - not that it appears many have read it!)

It is the Pope’s position that “Intersex” does not exist, what appears to be ambiguous is merely hidden, that the “gender binary” is strict. We are all 100% male or 100% female, and anyone who says otherwise is not just wrong, but a danger to all humanity and contrary to God’s Natural Law. This does not appear to be an “official” position though.

The position of Science is that sex is set even before birth. Sex is set by the neuro-anatomy of the brain. Here’s a quote that may be helpful, from Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. **This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. **There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

What this means is that you cannot reliably tell the sex of a child at birth merely by looking at it. Nor by chromosome tests, nor any other test.

Usually, if the child appears normally male, they will be male. Usually. And usually, if they appear to be female, they will be female. Usually. Not Always. You bring them up as the sex you think they are, and if you’re wrong, be prepared to change.

Moreover, as sex is determined by biology, and biology is fuzzy and messy, sex is a continuum, not a binary. We are all more or less female in some areas, more or less male in others. Usually, more male in virtually all, or more female in virtually all, so the “strict gender binary” model is a really, really good approximation for nearly everyone. There really are only two sexes, effectively, it’s quite real, and those “gender theorists” who say that gender is a social construct are objectively contrary to the facts.

The consequences of this when applied to Intersexed children are that, if you toss a coin and surgically assign them a sex based on random chance, instead of being right 50% of the time (if the gender binary was strict) , you’ll be right 66% of the time. Some people can function in either gender role, they are “bigendered” to a greater or lesser degree.

If surgeons assign a sex of convenience - usually female as the surgical reconstruction is easier - then only 1 time in 3 will they be wrong. If they carefully look at chromosomes, the exact Intersex condition, and all the other areas they can, regardless of difficulty, they will be wrong only 1 time in 10. These are measured figures.

So what do Intersexed people recommend:

1. Rear the child as one sex. Which one doesn’t matter -

There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

1. Only perform whatever surgery is needed for urinary and fecal continence, and to relieve discomfort of the child. Preserve what sensation they may have, and preserve what fertility they may have. This is entirely in accordance with Church teaching on the issue.
2. By age 7, they will tell you what sex they are. Often before age 5. Then provide them with whatever hormonal and surgical options they need to become consistent.
3. And for the few who are bigendered, no surgical option may be needed, they may be quite happy with what they have.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

There are exceptions: in the case of cloacal extrophy, early intervention is recommended. In the case of CAH, intervention is not recommended.

Cases of 5ARD and 17BHDD are fraught. In these syndromes, a baby is born who is feminised, often completely. But they will masculinise later in life, sometimes completely. In those circumstances, which sex they are is really indeterminate, you absolutely have to wait. Under no circumstances should they be castrated unless they request it. They will never be able to bear children, but some may be able to father them after their change.

Feel free to contact me on this, I’m something of an expert on the issue. The person who’s the best in the world is Prof Milton Diamond, of the University of Hawaii. (He’s also the guy who exposed Money’s fraud). I can put you in contact with him.

I would also recommend - through gritted teeth - former Vatican advisor on Sexual Issues Paul McHugh’s article on “Surgical Sex” in the Right-wing Catholic religious journal, “First Things”. He is dangerously wrong when talking about anything to do with transsexuality, but he’s exactly right when talking about Intersex. He doesn’t see the contradiction inherent in his article - that for Intersexed children, sex is innate, inborn, and external appearances are not a wholly reliable guide - but for Intersexed adults external appearances are reliable, regardless of their protests.

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0093.html

The fact that the issues of Intersex and Transsexuality are confused with homosexuality shows just how poorly the area is understood in “Catholic Education”.

One more thing - there are support groups out there, for both Intersexed people and their parents and guardians. I can recommend OII - intersexualite.org/anglophone.html

 

[vera_dicere]

I’m not 100% on the teachigns of the Church on this, but it seems to me that the most important thing to consider with these children is functionality. If they are born with some form of genital structure that can not wee wee then they should be corrected. As for the assignment of gender, I really think they should be given a “non specific” name like “Sam” or “Jo/e” and be raised in a general netural enviroment, like green clothes instead of pink or blue, adn then when the child has reached an age where they can express what they “feel” on the inside, make the surgical correction then.

God doesn’t make mistakes. It is not His will to cause these defects. These defects are a result of man’s sinful nature that has led to all kinds of naughty sexual shenanigans. However, its not the child’s fault that 20 generations ago their ancestors inbred, or because their mother didn’t get enough vit. c or whatever.

I know some intersexed individuals, one raised as a male, when they expressed a perferance for female, and now they have some really bad mental issues. they also hate the Church and are a solid atheist, its hard not to think that their parents’ religious views on the “intersex” has impacted on that individual for the negative.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I know some intersexed individuals, one raised as a male, when they expressed a perferance for female, and now they have some really bad mental issues. they also hate the Church and are a solid atheist, its hard not to think that their parents’ religious views on the “intersex” has impacted on that individual for the negative.

When one is persecuted by a group, one can have either of two reactions. To become bitter and twisted, or to try to educate, persuade, and above all, understand that they are doing their best, they’re just frightened and confused.

Had I not been persecuted by many in the Catholic Hierarchy, I would not have come to love my fellow humans as much as I do, in all their errors and mistakes, their human fallibility. They do try so hard to do the right thing, and so many commit the most appalling acts of cruelty, and yes, even evil in the process.

As do I - I do try not to be evil though, preferring to err on the side of Kindness. I’m no Christian, still less a Catholic, but I try to follow the commandments that “all the laws and the prophets” are based on, despite my unbelief. I fail sometimes, being human, of course. How can I accept my own failings, forgive myself for them, if I don’t do that for others? How can I love - or even live with - my own fallibile humanity, if I don’t love others despite theirs? Maybe even because of theirs, they try so hard to overcome their shortcomings!

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 22:35-40[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 13[/BIBLEDRB]

4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up;

5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;

Exactly.

There is a good discussion on the subject of Intersex, with opinions by a Canon Lawyer in posts 18 and 20, at this thread:
What is the Church’s position on the Intersexed and Transsexed?

My own situation is described at forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5012328&postcount=146
I don’t think you could get a more theologically perplexing one. Apart from possibly my friend Petra’s, and her unborn child.

 

[Raider_Red]

God doesn’t make mistakes. It is not His will to cause these defects. These defects are a result of man’s sinful nature that has led to all kinds of naughty sexual shenanigans. However, its not the child’s fault that 20 generations ago their ancestors inbred, or because their mother didn’t get enough vit. c or whatever.

I feel you are approaching with the wrong mindset. It was once believed that a person born with something not considered “normal” was being punished for the sins of their parents. This is why the disciples asked the question they did in John 9. Jesus is direct in is answer and corrects their misunderstanding.

John 9:1 **As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

You are right that God doesn’t make a mistake. He doesn’t make a mistake when someone is born blind, or with a birthmark that covers half of their face, or missing a hand, or with downs syndrome, or with ambiguous genitalia, or with huge nostrils and really small feet (I have the latter two without a doubt). God has a purpose and a plan for each individual.

Me and my wife are having our first child in a few months and we are praying for a healthy baby. What does this mean… “healthy”? Ten fingers, ten toes, functioning heart, and many other things are playing into this but why? I going to love the child and they are going to be perfect if they come out with 6 toes, a bad heart, and a birthmark that covers their entire body. Will our daughter face challenges that she might not face if she had ten toes, a good heart and no birthmark… of course. I think this is why we have prayed for these things out of a protection for our child already.

For those who see God as Father and know that He loves us more than everyone of our biological parents, would he not want the absolute best for each and every one of us? With this in mind, I know that no matter what God provide me and my wife with, it is going to be perfect and not a mistake no matter what our child has. It is our society that says one thing is good/bad or normal/abnormal/wrong. Normal is what most people have but that doesn’t mean God wants everyone to have the same thing. I think if we look around us this is visible.

I say all of this out of love and hopefully it is received as such. I don’t have it all figured out and have so much to learn, and that is one main reason I’m on this forum. May we all help one another experience the love of God through dialogue. We have the potential to say things through love or through pride.

 

[aspawloski4th]

You will find on this subject not very much dialogue , but plenty of those who think they know it all despite not studying the subject more than a minute. The church while having a statement here and there does’t have a definative stand or opinion as of now, while many people to think they do. If you study whats known in the science currently, with the sum of the evidence you will find there is much more to one’s gender identity than the physical.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

My understanding is that the Church currently determines “true sex” by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. But things get more complicated than that.

Take an extreme case of Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. It’s not impossible, my friend is a vascular sonographer and one day he came home and told me about what happened. A teenage girl came in and she hadn’t had her first period yet, they had tried hormone pills to induce it and nothing happened, so he scanned her to look for physical abnormalities. What he found was that she was missing her uterus and her ovaries were more like undescended testes than ovaries. That is, she was biologically male but never developed masculine, and had female genitalia (even men start off proto-female in the womb) and being a girl was all she ever knew.

I don’t think anyone with a heart would tell this girl she had to change her name, take testosterone shots and live as a boy. Even if she did, she’d be a boy with female genitalia. So we know she isn’t fully female and so cannot get married, that is hard enough for a person to deal with. But compassion states that in such cases the charitable thing to do is to accept the person as the sex which they have always known.

As for infant born with ambiguous genitalia, I am no fan of surgery for something like this. Only Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia requires surgery, all other disorders are operated on for merely social / psychological and not therapeutic purposes. Presence or absence of a Y chromosome creates a binary system which can be used to assign the child as male or female, regardless of what their genitalia look like.

This is a rather different situation than with transsexuals, who choose later in life to live as members of the opposite gender. But even in that situation, I think some compassion and acceptance in economy is good and useful. It’s a fine line though between being insensitive and accepting something that is false and possibly sinful. I don’t know where that line is because you want to try to avoid at all possible someone undergoing this sort of gender transition since it’s a very difficult road which involves permanent celibacy and no possibility of Holy Orders or religious life. So it kind of leaves people in a “no man zone”. On the other hand, some people are seriously psychologically disturbed and allowing them to live as members of the opposite gender is the only way to get them to function in society and avoids serious depression, self-injury and suicide.

I think both intersexed disorders and transsexualism are something that have to be investigated on a case-by-case basis, there are too many factors to make a blanket statement.

 

[Jermosh]

I believe that they should be raised how they feel, sometimes they will switch, other times they can become asexual. The problem is that many transgender are in fact inter sexed to some point, living as a transgender is extremely stressful and in many cases full of heart-ache. I would not want that for my child, I see nothing immoral with raising them gender neutral till they can finally make a decision themselves.

My cousin had a child who was born with both genitals, but ovaries and no testicles. But they went ahead and made them a “boy” against my pleas and the Drs, they are now really having issues with him and he is already showing early stress signals from Transgender emotions at the age of 8.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I\My cousin had a child who was born with both genitals, but ovaries and no testicles. But they went ahead and made them a “boy” against my pleas and the Drs, they are now really having issues with him and he is already showing early stress signals from Transgender emotions at the age of 8.

sigh

So what do Intersexed people recommend:

1. Rear the child as one sex. Which one doesn’t matter -
   .
2. Only perform whatever surgery is needed for urinary and fecal continence, and to relieve discomfort of the child. Preserve what sensation they may have, and preserve what fertility they may have. This is entirely in accordance with Church teaching on the issue.

1. By age 7, they will tell you what sex they are. Often before age 5. Then provide them with whatever hormonal and surgical options they need to become consistent.

 

[MariaTS]

The problem is that many transgender are in fact inter sexed to some point, living as a transgender is extremely stressful and in many cases full of heart-ache.

Transgender/ed is a broad term of which intersex is included. I am intersexed, specifically transsexed, and I do not find it at all stressful. What I do find stressful is the bias, bigotry, intolerance, and hatred that I experience because people simply do not understand my condition nor do they want to. Just wanted to give you a perspective from a person who is intersexed.

 

[MariaTS]

This is a rather different situation than with transsexuals, who choose later in life to live as members of the opposite gender. But even in that situation, I think some compassion and acceptance in economy is good and useful. It’s a fine line though between being insensitive and accepting something that is false and possibly sinful. I don’t know where that line is because you want to try to avoid at all possible someone undergoing this sort of gender transition since it’s a very difficult road which involves permanent celibacy and no possibility of Holy Orders or religious life. So it kind of leaves people in a “no man zone”. On the other hand, some people are seriously psychologically disturbed and allowing them to live as members of the opposite gender is the only way to get them to function in society and avoids serious depression, self-injury and suicide.

I think both intersexed disorders and transsexualism are something that have to be investigated on a case-by-case basis, there are too many factors to make a blanket statement.

Acceptance towards transsexed individuals is referring to them by their true pronouns (or as some would say, their preferred pronouns. Also, transsexualism is an intersex disorder. Further, who says a transsexed individual is called to be celibate? One last thing, a truly transsexed individual would not undergo SRS because she (“male-to-female”) or he (“female-to-male”) would not feel they needed to change their genitals in order to be er or his true gender. A truly transsexed individual might, however, undergo castration in order for their physical appearance to be more like themselves. Castration does not make anyone unable to recieve holy orders or dedicate their lives to religious life. Trust me, I get communion every sunday and I participate in a music ministry. I have depression, suicidal thoughts, and I self harm myself, but that isn’t because of my condition, it’s because of how people treat me. I agree that intersexed disorders must be examined and investigated on a case-to-case basis.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Acceptance towards transsexed individuals is referring to them by their true pronouns (or as some would say, their preferred pronouns.

It could, yes. But again, that doesn’t mean in all cases since transsexual transition should be a last resort to ease serious, disabling psychological problems which do not respond to other treatment, not accepted as a lifestyle choice. This is why I said it should be regarded as illicit but it is possible that a few transsexuals should be accepted in economy if it does not cause scandal (i.e. “stealth”).

For example, if someone is converting to the Catholic Church and they have lived their past 20 years as the opposite sex, it might be better to accept it. This is a different situation than if someone is talking about undergoing the process, which should be opposed until it is certain this is a last resort and we are doing this to avoid a high risk of suicide.

I do not believe, though I could be wrong, that the Church has defined transsexualism as an intrinsic evil, though it certainly is an evil. If it is an intrinsic evil, (e.g. contraception, abortion, homosexual acts), one cannot perform it even for a grave reason. If it is an evil which is not intrinsic, (e.g. death penalty, self-defense, lying), then it can be performed for a sufficiently grave reason.

The secret document reported by the Catholic media a few years ago regarding transsexualism suggests that gender transition is an evil but not an intrinsic evil since it could be allowed for a sufficiently grave reason.

Also, transsexualism is an intersex disorder.

A small group of transsexual activists have tried to claim that, calling transsexualism “Harry Benjamin Syndrome”. That is, however, not the definition of “intersexed” used by the medical community. Intersexed conditions (Disorders of Sexual Development) involve physical conditions. Rarely do transsexuals of either sex suffer from physical intersex conditions, but only the psychological condition of “transsexualism” or “gender identity disorder”.

We do not know the genesis of transsexuality, like homosexuality and many other psychological disorders, it likely has multiple causes ~ different people have different reasons for choosing to undergo a gender transition.

Further, who says a transsexed individual is called to be celibate?

They are if they undergo gender transition, they cannot be married, so therefore they cannot have sexual relations, which is celibacy. I could not imagine staying married to a man who went through a sex change but if someone chooses to do that, it could not invalidate the marriage since a marriage which is valid at the time of the wedding cannot be made invalid. However, it would be a good reason to obtain an annulment since I could not think of a more dramatic dire impediment (which would have pre-existed the wedding). Having a wife (or husband) and kids would also be a very good reason to object to an individual’s gender transition.

One last thing, a truly transsexed individual would not undergo SRS because she (“male-to-female”) or he (“female-to-male”) would not feel they needed to change their genitals in order to be er or his true gender. A truly transsexed individual might, however, undergo castration in order for their physical appearance to be more like themselves.

Interesting. So you are saying that, rather than most people’s conception of a transsexual as someone who has had a sex change operation (sexual reassignment surgery - SRS), that “true” transsexuals reject the idea of genital surgery? Why would that be? So if a man undergoes genital surgery to become a woman, you would consider them still a man since “a truly transsexed individual would not undergo SRS”? I have never heard this definition before, indeed the opposite is usually affirmed.

I am curious what you mean that (male) transsexuals would “undergo castration in order for their physical appearance to be more like themselves”. I think you mean “to look more like they want to look.” I also assume you are talking about the hormonal changes induced by castration, since the testes themselves do not change a man’s appearance much. Why not stick to artificial hormones?

Something about the idea bothers me. I can understand if someone has such powerful psychological trauma that they obtain genital surgery to have their genitalia look more like those of the opposite sex, I could understand a reduction or elimination of culpability due to severe psychological problems. It seems that you are talking about castration for a secondary end ~ hormonal changes which may lead to some minor physical changes ~ and that doesn’t seem like the same in regards to a reduction or elimination of culpability.

It goes to show the inherent variety of views by the transsexual community of themselves. Transsexualism is not a monolithic condition.

(Cont.)

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

(Cont.)

Castration does not make anyone unable to recieve holy orders

It depends on what you mean by “unable”. If your question concerns validity, a male-to-“female” transsexual is still male and so it could be valid. However, it would constitute an irregularity, which would need to be dispensed, otherwise it would be illicit. I highly doubt the Church would dispense this impediment for a transsexual who wished to become a priest.
CIC 1041.1:

The following are irregular for receiving orders: …
a person who labors under some form of amentia or other psychic illness due to which, after experts have been consulted, he is judged unqualified to fulfill the ministry properly;
…
a person who has mutilated himself or another gravely and maliciously or who has attempted suicide;

A transsexual condition would be an example of a “psychic illness” which renders a man “unqualified to fulfill the ministry properly”. Voluntary castration would be an example of self-mutilation.

or dedicate their lives to religious life.

Would a transsexual really even want to live with a group of the sex that he or she was trying to escape from? I could see, perhaps, a penitent former transsexual becoming a monk or nun, if the community was okay with that, but not one who is actively expressing their disorder. Psychological disorders, such as transsexuality render someone unsuitable for religious life. There is also the issue of homosexuality and a man who at one time lived as a woman and then reverted to living as a man in order to pursue religious life would likely still have homosexual inclinations, which are unsuitable for someone living in common with other men (or woman living with other women).

Trust me, I get communion every sunday and I participate in a music ministry.

How is that related to Holy Orders or religious life? If gender transition does not involve grave sin (or there is a lack of culpability), then there is nothing forbidding you from receiving Communion. Participation in a music ministry (choir?) is also unrelated. I understand the fact that there are people, perhaps even in my traditionalist parish, who have homosexual or transsexual inclinations or an intersexed disorder. Largely that is between them, the priest and God, especially if the information is kept private. It is different when treating the issues of marriage, ordination and religious profession in regards to these conditions.

I have depression, suicidal thoughts, and I self harm myself, but that isn’t because of my condition, it’s because of how people treat me.

If you were not living as a transsexual but rather as a normal man, you would not have those social effects. Therefore there must be some compelling reason that you choose to live that way. A teenager will dye their hair green and get 20 piercings and complain that people treat them like freaks… I don’t mean to make light of the serious nature of transsexualism, but that is effectively what happens to transsexuals. Someone doesn’t voluntarily cut off their arm and then complain that people treat them different. Certainly what is at question is why they cut off their arm and whether they are culpable for the grave sin of mutilation or that some psychological disorder (e.g. Body Integrity Identity Disorder) renders the person less culpable or not culpable for the act.

A general awareness and openness in regards to people mental illnesses and other disorders is the greater context in which transsexuals need to pursue social acceptance. If a person is schizophrenic or has a learning disability, we give them greater latitude in how they act in society because they cannot be held responsible for some of their actions as much as a normal adult would be. It depends on the severity of their disorder, as with transsexualism. For people with severe conditions, even something as grave as mutilation (castration, sex reassignment surgery, mastectomy, etc.) may be not subjectively sinful, even though it is objectively evil.

There may be some cases in which a person is so fully socialized in the opposite gender that it would be possibly be acceptable to not insist that they go back to living as their birth sex, though they should be given much support if they so decide. This is very different from accepting the post-modern concept of gender as a social or psychological construction and not a God-given reality consistent with biological sex. As always, I defer to the judgment of the Church on this matter, which unfortunately remains somewhat ambiguous. The ambiguity might be necessary given the differences in individual cases of transsexualism, rendering some transitions gravely sinful and others absent of culpability, thorough discussion with a good priest is necessary.

 

[mchale]

(Cont.)

It depends on what you mean by “unable”. If your question concerns validity, a male-to-“female” transsexual is still male and so it could be valid. However, it would constitute an irregularity, which would need to be dispensed, otherwise it would be illicit. I highly doubt the Church would dispense this impediment for a transsexual who wished to become a priest.

If I understand the situation correctly, castration requires a dispensation from Rome. I know someone who had testicular cancer before they entered the seminary and had to have one of their testicles removed as treatment for the Cancer. The local bishop was very concerned regarding whether he still had one or not.

–
Bill

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

If I understand the situation correctly, castration requires a dispensation from Rome. I know someone who had testicular cancer before they entered the seminary and had to have one of their testicles removed as treatment for the Cancer. The local bishop was very concerned regarding whether he still had one or not.

–
Bill

That is interesting, because then that’s a question of physically having testes and not of the psychological state of self-mutilation, which is what is concerned in the canon I quoted.

Here is a historical reference, as eunuchs were more common back then:
Council of Nicaea:

If anyone in sickness has undergone surgery at the hands of physicians or has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy. But if anyone in good health has castrated himself, if he is enrolled among the clergy he should be suspended, and in future no such man should be promoted. But, as it is evident that this refers to those who are responsible for the condition and presume to castrate themselves, so too if any have been made eunuchs by barbarians or by their masters, but have been found worthy, the canon admits such men to the clergy.

I don’t have time to look for at it right now (heading off to Ascension Thursday Mass…) but there was a question of the marriage of those castrated or sterilized by the Nazis. Since they were not responsible for their condition, they were deemed allowed to marry. But that is quite different from elective castration, such as in the case of transsexuals or Origen…

 

[Zoe_Brain]

IIntersexed conditions (Disorders of Sexual Development) involve physical conditions. Rarely do transsexuals of either sex suffer from physical intersex conditions…

The evidence is that transsexuality does too.

I’ll give some quotes from papers whose results have not been seriously challenged.

Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35

The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

We do not know the genesis of transsexuality, like homosexuality and many other psychological disorders, it likely has multiple causes ~ different people have different reasons for choosing to undergo a gender transition.

We know the genesis of it in experimental animals. We can reliably induce it by appropriate hormonal manipulation during gestation. The same patterns of instinctive behaviour, the same neurological anomalies observed in trans people.

Some more papers on the subject - the titles tell you what’s in them.

**Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. **Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

**A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. **by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity by Garcia-Falgueras et al Brain. 2008 Dec;131(Pt 12):3132-46.

Where the HBS crowd have it right is to say that there is an anatomical cause for transsexuality. Where they have it wrong is when they say that there’s a strict binary, male brains and female brains. In fact, the brain is a complex structure, with each part conforming to a masculine or feminine stereotype to a greater or lesser degree.

Gender Identity is determined by the morphology of the lymbic nucleus. This determines emotional response, sense of smell, and a number of other areas. During gender identity crystallisation, people unconsciously (or rarely, consciously) identify with others who have similar emotional responses, and similar lymbic nucleii.

This process is described in Biased-Interaction Theory of Psychosexual Development: “How Does One Know if One is Male or Female?” by M. Diamond, Sex Roles (2006) 55:589–600

Prenatal programming and biasing work through alterations of the nervous system; thus can be said to reflect brain sex. During prenatal development the nervous system, the brain in particular, is programmed along a track that is usually concomitant with the development of other sex appropriate structures like genitals and reproductive organs. The brain, however, as in other Intersex conditions, can develop along one sex/gender path while other organs develop along another. Put simply, the brain can develop as male while other parts of the body develop as female. Further, it is important to recall that the developing nervous system controlling gender-linked behaviors is more sensitive to certain stimuli than are the tissues forming genitals and thus can be modified while the genitals are not.** I think that transsexuals are intersexed in their brains**.

Now we know for certain what causes the “bias” he hypothesised had to be responsible. Just at a time when psychologists had deduced from observation that such sexual differentiation in the brain had to exist to explain observations, neuro-anatomists were independantly finding such a difference and wondering what the behavioural effects had to be.

As Professor of Urology Dr Sid Ecker wrote to me:

Hi Zoe,

Yes, we gave our presentation to 60 plus psychiatrists from the US, AU, FR, IT, EU, UK, Holland etc.

We spoke for 2 1/2 hours on why cross gender identity was a normal inherited variation of humans. We showed how Transgender Brains think, smell, and hear like the opposite sex. We presented internationally accepted guidelines for hormonal treatment of transsexuals to be published Summer 2009.

Here are my slides and with my participants’ permission I shall send you theirs. We are now in print in the APA Syllabus and soon in the APA Journal this summer. I am checking if we were recorded.

My greatest personal compliment came from Frank Kruijver, from Holland, whose research of the human brain in TSs started it all. He thought we have taken his work very far in our understanding of the human brain. Hope you can do something with this.

Sid Ecker, M.D.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I could not imagine staying married to a man who went through a sex change but if someone chooses to do that, it could not invalidate the marriage since a marriage which is valid at the time of the wedding cannot be made invalid. However, it would be a good reason to obtain an annulment since I could not think of a more dramatic dire impediment (which would have pre-existed the wedding). Having a wife (or husband) and kids would also be a very good reason to object to an individual’s gender transition.

It is useful when looking at such issues to consider some even more rare and theologically perplexing conditions than Transsexuality.

I’m talking about the cases of dichogamous pseudohermaphroditism. Where a person is born looking like one sex, but naturally changes later in life to look like the other.

From Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency. P. Cohen-Ketternis Arch Sex Behav. 2005 Aug;34(4):399-410

Individuals with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency (17beta-HSD-3) are often raised as girls. Over the past number of years, this policy has been challenged because many individuals with these conditions develop a male gender identity and make a gender role change after puberty. The findings also raised doubts regarding the hypothesis that children are psychosexually neutral at birth and emphasized the potential role of prenatal brain exposure to androgens in gender development. If prenatal exposure to androgens is a major contributor to gender identity development, one would expect that all, or nearly all, affected individuals, even when raised as girls, would develop a male gender identity and make a gender role switch later in life. However, an estimation of the prevalence of gender role changes, based on the current literature, shows that gender role changes occur frequently, but not invariably. Gender role changes were reported in 56-63% of cases with 5alpha-RD-2 and 39-64% of cases with 17beta-HSD-3 who were raised as girls. The changes were usually made in adolescence and early adulthood. In these two syndromes, the degree of external genital masculinization at birth does not seem to be related to gender role changes in a systematic way.

Their gender identity is set by their brain’s configuration, long before birth. The fact that they change from looking female at birth to male later doesn’t change the neurology. So many resist “going with the flow” because they’re female, no matter what they look like. To others, whose gender identity is male and always was, it’s a God-send.

The symptoms vary, but the kind of change that happens in some cases is illustrated at The ‘Guevedoces’ of the Dominican Republic, with some NSFW photos.

The change due to 5ARD or 17BHDD usually comes in the late teens. Other, rarer conditions, including the ones that cause a male to female change, can happen much later. Sometimes after marriage. Sometimes after many decades. Sometimes even after children have been conceived, though this may take technical help as the body only looked male before the change, it wasn’t completely, just mostly.

One such case is in this video : youtube.com/watch?v=n_DeixA0Rsc

"My child got a front-row seat to something that has only happened to less than a hundred people on the planet in this generation. His Daddy performed a really really good Magic Trick. He turned into a girl before his very eyes…

I was 47 when something very very strange happened, and I started feminising…

Within a few months, the diagnosis had been changed from a very mildly Intersexed male to an extremely Intersexed woman…

I’d had a life, I’d had a career. I’d had a marriage. And I’d had a child. And suddenly, all of that was thrown into doubt.

We still love each other just as much. There’s rather more to marriage than just sex."

Yes, that’s me. A Theologian’s worst nightmare, it seems. All the “Theology of the Body” dogma is contradicted by my existence. Some don’t react well to that.

I must emphasise that such cases are extremely rare - though the female-to-male ones are not. But they exist. And even one counter-example is enough for disproof.

Pseudohermaphrodites face exactly the same discrimination as do Transsexuals. I speak from personal experience. And legally, quite a bit more, the legal systems in place for changing one’s documentation require evidence of Sex Reassignment Surgery. When the process is natural, such documentation doesn’t exist.

So feel free to object to someone’s transition on the basis that they are married, and have children. Heck, I objected myself. I had far too much to lose, even though I had a female gender identity (I’d picked the name “Zoe” at age 10, when I thought I’d be like other girls). I just wanted to die, without anyone knowing, because transsexuality is, well, there’s a reason why half of them kill themselves if they don’t transition. Gender Dysphoria really is that bad, trust me.

Instead, I got what some would consider a miracle. Me, one of the least deserving people on the planet, able to live with it, and not even Christian let alone Catholic. So many I know deserve it more. I can’t help feeling that there’s something wrong with the system.

So I do what I can to help others. I owe a debt I’ll never be able to repay, but maybe I can stop the interest accumulating so quickly.

 

[Jermosh]

Jermosh;6631749:

The problem is that many transgender are in fact inter sexed to some point, living as a transgender is extremely stressful and in many cases full of heart-ache.

Transgender/ed is a broad term of which intersex is included. I am intersexed, specifically transsexed, and I do not find it at all stressful. What I do find stressful is the bias, bigotry, intolerance, and hatred that I experience because people simply do not understand my condition nor do they want to. Just wanted to give you a perspective from a person who is intersexed.

I agree with you, I am just using broad terms, this is such an intricate area.

I understand your outward stress, but I would think that some have a inner stress as well. I think there is a normal desire to be “normal”, some are able to accept that their “issue” is normal, others can’t, and yes that is influenced by outside stress as well.
We have a wonderful M>F transgender as a leader in my Companies Diversity group, she is amazingly strong woman who takes her diversity headstrong, but she also admits its hard because she cannot hide it like others can. For the most part though she attributes her strength in her families support and our workplace is fairly positive with it.