Intercession of Mary

[delberto]

Although it is the teaching or dogma of the Roman Catholic Church that praying to Mary and asking her to intercede for sinners is biblical, this practice has no basis in Scripture. In fact, only the sinless "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29) is an acceptable mediator between the sinful heart of man and God. The Bible tells us that, “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11). And again, “Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:10-12).

Why paray to Mary, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak and pray to the bloke in the sky?

 

[YourAverageJoe]

Although it is the teaching or dogma of the Roman Catholic Church that praying to Mary and asking her to intercede for sinners is biblical, this practice has no basis in Scripture.

Actually, asking anybody to pray for you is biblical. Its all over the new testament! Jesus started his rebutalls to the scribes most often with "Haven’t you read?

If you were in heaven, would you pray for me?

In Christ!

 

[LilyM]

Although it is the teaching or dogma of the Roman Catholic Church that praying to Mary and asking her to intercede for sinners is biblical, this practice has no basis in Scripture. In fact, only the sinless "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29) is an acceptable mediator between the sinful heart of man and God. The Bible tells us that, “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11). And again, “Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:10-12).

Why paray to Mary, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak and pray to the bloke in the sky?

So why on earth was Mary involved at all in the miracle of Cana? If Jesus didn’t want us to wrongly get the idea that Mary could intercede for us, then why didn’t HE cut out the middlewoman and produce the wine without her asking?

Why did He make a point of saying that He in fact performed this miracle ahead of its due time - ‘my hour is not yet come’ - if not to teach us that Mary’s requests are very important to Him???

 

[delberto]

It seems a little bit far fetched to imagine that the blessed virgin keeps a running total of prayers that are bombarding her every minute of the day. As an agnostic, i feel that humans need to stop relying on prayer as a means of helping themselves or others. Perhaps when mankind starts to look inwards for solutions instead of looking for divine intervention we may solve a few of our problems.

If Mary is listening to me just now, i pray that she gives us the power to stop praying and to problem solve ourselves.

Can anyone give me any examples which will hold up to scrutiny by the scientific world that prayer actualy works?real solid evidence, not the " i know it to be personally true" scapegoat.

 

[YourAverageJoe]

Paul asked his followers to pray for him, in fact, he prayed endlessly for the Churches he founded. Read the beginning of all Pauls letters and you shall see. Your argument dont stick!

 

[AshleyBelle]

It seems a little bit far fetched to imagine that the blessed virgin keeps a running total of prayers that are bombarding her every minute of the day. As an agnostic, i feel that humans need to stop relying on prayer as a means of helping themselves or others. Perhaps when mankind starts to look inwards for solutions instead of looking for divine intervention we may solve a few of our problems.

If Mary is listening to me just now, i pray that she gives us the power to stop praying and to problem solve ourselves.

Can anyone give me any examples which will hold up to scrutiny by the scientific world that prayer actualy works?real solid evidence, not the " i know it to be personally true" scapegoat.

Sure… look into some of the apparitions throughout history, attributed to our Lady Do a google search on “Lourdes, France” and you’ll find several well documented and proven miracles!
Prayer is our way of acknowledging that though we are to be an INSTRUMENT for good, the power to do good is not our own:)

 

[delberto]

 Prayer is our way of acknowledging that though we are to be an INSTRUMENT for good,  the power to do good is not our own:)

Ofcourse the power to do good is ours alone.
Your statement implies that athiests are incapable of doing good on their own. Would it also be true then that we are incapable of doing evil on our own?
Regaring Lourdes- yep its well documented but hardly proven.
Ufo’s are sighted here in Bonnybridge, Scotland all the time, also well documented/ witness by loads of people. Does that mean UFOs are proven?

 

[LilyM]

It seems a little bit far fetched to imagine that the blessed virgin keeps a running total of prayers that are bombarding her every minute of the day. As an agnostic, i feel that humans need to stop relying on prayer as a means of helping themselves or others. Perhaps when mankind starts to look inwards for solutions instead of looking for divine intervention we may solve a few of our problems.

If Mary is listening to me just now, i pray that she gives us the power to stop praying and to problem solve ourselves.

Can anyone give me any examples which will hold up to scrutiny by the scientific world that prayer actualy works?real solid evidence, not the " i know it to be personally true" scapegoat.

For one thing, prayer is the source of strength for a lot of people through which they find the strength to do the good practical works they do, and FIND or even BECOME those solutions that you speak of.

Mother Teresa being one example - I’m sure she would’ve said that her rich prayer life was the fuel which fired her to do a lot of practical good for others who needed it.

Same with John Paul 2 - his strong faith and great prayer life was the source of his strength which enabled him to boldly speak out against Communism, for one thing, which example contributed to its downfall.

 

[delberto]

Same with John Paul 2 - his strong faith and great prayer life was the source of his strength which enabled him to boldly speak out against Communism, for one thing, which example contributed to its downfall.

Why didnt he speak out against capatilism?surely, if we look to the past month or so we can see the greed of bankers etc.
Communism sounds ok to me. At least the principles of it.

 

[narrowpath]

God and the saints, being outside time, are not, as you put it, being constantly bombarded by prayers… C.S. Lewis gave a good anology.

If you are writing a book, and you wrote that “Mary heard a knock at the door, and immediatly answered it”, you could first write, “Mary heard a knock at the door”. Then, you could could wait a few hours, even days, before writing “and immediatly answered it.”. For you, a long time has passed, but for Mary, a few seconds only.

God/Mary/saints are the writer. We are Mary.

 

[narrowpath]

When a government has as much control as they do in communism, corruption is almost assured. Look at every communist society that has ever existed.

 

[LilyM]

Why didnt he speak out against capatilism?surely, if we look to the past month or so we can see the greed of bankers etc.
Communism sounds ok to me. At least the principles of it.

My parents fled communism. My sister went back for six years to study. Nothing especially good about it in theory or practice.

If it was so wonderful then where are the huge queues of people from capitalist countries applying to move TO Communist ones?

 

[jmcrae]

Although it is the teaching or dogma of the Roman Catholic Church that praying to Mary and asking her to intercede for sinners is biblical, this practice has no basis in Scripture.

Wow, yesterday you were “looking for God” and today you are an expert in Scripture! I always find it so amazing how quickly the Holy Spirit works in our Protestant brethren.

In fact, only the sinless "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29) is an acceptable mediator between the sinful heart of man and God.

Nobody claims that Mary is a mediator. She is an intercessor.

The Bible tells us that, “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11). And again, “Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:10-12).

It is precisely because of Christ, that Mary has eternal life and is able to intercede with us in Heaven, rather than being in Hell or Hades, which was where all of humanity went, before Christ died on the Cross for our sins.

Why paray to Mary, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak and pray to the bloke in the sky?

Because Jesus said, “Behold, I give you a new commandment: that you love one another as I have loved you.” John 13:34.

It’s not about “me and Jesus, all alone together, and to heck with the rest of you.” We are called into relationships with one another (including the Saints in Heaven), as well as with Jesus.

 

[delberto]

Wow, yesterday you were “looking for God” and today you are an expert in Scripture! I always find it so amazing how quickly the Holy Spirit works in our Protestant brethren.

I am not a protestant… im agnostic and am not against the catholic church any more than any other organised religion.
Each to their own thats what i say.
Never been an expert on anything either.

Still waiting to see shining examples of the intercession of mary.

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae;4369480:

Wow, yesterday you were “looking for God” and today you are an expert in Scripture! I always find it so amazing

how quickly the Holy Spirit works in our Protestant brethren.

I am not a protestant… im agnostic and am not against the catholic church any more than any other organised religion.
Each to their own thats what i say.
Never been an expert on anything either.

Then how do you know for a fact that there is “no basis in Scripture” for Mary to intercede in prayer for us? Is this just something you’ve heard, and if so, are you in the habit of repeating things you’ve heard as though they were fact, without checking it out for yourself?

Mary interceded in prayer at the end of the first chapter of Acts, actually; she prayed with the Disciples in the Upper Room for nine days, for the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. This was the world’s first Novena prayer. So, there’s your first example of Mary praying for the Church.

 

[LilyM]

Still waiting to see shining examples of the intercession of mary.

Have to bring up JP2 again - he had a great devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, and credited her intercession with his survival of the attempted assassination against him in 1981. Can’t get much more of a ‘shining example’ than Our Lady helping save your life, can you?

 

[Ag_not]

Why paray to Mary, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak and pray to the bloke in the sky?

No reason what so ever. It’s perfectly valid. And absolutely correct to do so. At Mass today, the priest reminded us that the saints are in heaven. They’ve passed the test.

When I was learning to ride enduro, I rode with some great riders, riders I’ll never be as good as, but I watched them, studied them, talked to them, got advice from them, and I learned soooo much from them. Now, the objective was to ride the course, set the max laps in the time available, hit all the special stages, and win. Easy. I didnt need to consult anyone. Just get the bike and me through scruiteenering and go. When I got friendly with some of the other more well connected riders, I was getting invites to all sorts of events, stuff that would never happen for me normally as I wasnt well connected.

Now, our objective is to get to heaven. But the saints have run the course. They know the best lines to take on the tricky corners, they’ve been there. Done it. Got the teeshirt.

So why not talk to them? Study their lives? Read their writings? Learn from them.

And given we know they’re in Heaven, they are in the presence of God our Father in heaven. You think they haven’t got God’s ear???

I know who I’d like putting a word in for me - and Jesus being a good Jewish Boy - are you seriously telling me He’d be brave enough to ignore the strongest Jewish Mother in history

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Hi Delberto,

Before posting a new thread please research your topic here for official information.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=214374

I hope that helps

 

[adstrinity]

Why paray to Mary, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak and pray to the bloke in the sky?

If you mean The Trinity, we pray to Him.

…But, of course, this post will be ignored so you can continue to stroke your proud ego on disagreeing with Jesus and His Followers.

 

[Church_Militant]

Although it is the teaching or dogma of the Roman Catholic Church that praying to Mary and asking her to intercede for sinners is biblical, this practice has no basis in Scripture…

Why paray to Mary, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak and pray to the bloke in the sky?

1. As an professing agnostic, why do you even care enough to ask?
2. Why do you, an agnostic attempt to argue from a typical anti-Catholic allegation that “this practice has no basis in Scripture…”?
3. Communion of Saints