Intercession of Saints in Scripture

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But the reason why Jesus never spoke of “Salvation” as the goal of the Christian is because He is Salvation (our Life is hidden in Christ); Jesus allowed the death of Lazarus not only to bring him back but to Reveal that He has the Power over death:
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?” (St. John 11)
Jesus, the God that Saves, is Salvation!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Don’t get me wrong. I’m a Catholic from the cradle who believes in the communion of saints. But is there ANY directive in Scripture that we should pray to them?
is it required/mandated we pray to them? No. But, when the serpents were biting the people, God so ordered and mandated the Stake with the serpent in gold to be made/erected. And there, the people were told to touch it, to throw the curse off. Then again, the Staff of Aaron was so mandated, and which thus was an assistance to Moses to the flight of people from Egypt and many other things. And then finally, that one well equipped work mandated by God, which even King David sung before in joyous song and praise, the Ark of the Covenant (besides the Ark of Noah that God so mandated.)

Our Lady, through the Holy Spirit’s prompting through the centuries, to keep us souls, especially us human members of the body of Christ (The Church) on course from straying (especially straying too far.) Our Lady did employ the necessity of praying for souls, and to Bless, Adore, and Believe in Jesus Presence, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in all the Blessed Tabernacles throughout the world (the Eucharist.)

And in that sense, we have this beautiful prayer demonstrated from Mary’s remarkable life as a woman and a saint, and if any more could be said, the Mother of God. Thus, we have the Holy Rosary.

It isn’t required to pray to the saints. But it helps. And nevertheless serves the disposition of justice and mercy: the Salvation of Souls. Two prayers to consider:

Jesus forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need of thy mercy.
And…
Oh Remember Most Gracious Virgin, never was it know to anyone, who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession, was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly onto to you, Oh Virgin of Virgins, my Mothers. To you do I come. Before you I stand. Sinful and sorrowful Oh Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions. But in your mercy, hear and answer us.

As Jesus said of His Father (Who art in Heaven…) He is the God of the living, not the dead. And there the Apostle’s at the Transfiguration could see Jesus talking to two person’s on each side of Him: Elijah and Moses.

Saints are the souls of the God of the living, not the dead. So therefore, as Jesus conversed with them. And as Saint Paul instructed we should pray for each other. Think that stopped at Heaven’s front door, or continued (Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven…)
 
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Jesus never called them Apostles!

The narrative is not Jesus speaking, it is the writer of the Gospel who from the knowledge and information gathered many years after Jesus’ Ascension uses a term which means “sent.”

Yet, we know, from commonsense surmising, that when Jesus sent the Twelve and then the 72 and so on the term “Apostle” would have most likely surfaced.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Please, reread my replies and Scriptures. Christ was not around when the NT was Written.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Considering that you believe Jesus didn’t name the Twelve Apostles Apostles, I’d advise you to read Scripture.
 
You are still caught in you own dilemma.

Not once did Jesus state “Apostle/s.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
There are many things that aren’t advised that are in the Psalms. One psalm literally says “Blessed are they who dash your infants across a rock.”
Certainly one must understand the context. God created human beings, and He alone has the right to end their lives. There are many instances of the death penalty in Scripture. Characterizing the commandment of God as “not advised” seems odd.

I agree that not all that is written is “to” us, though everything that is written is for our instruction. So I guess my question is, what is it about the Psalms that use this imperative (directive) tone do you think is contrary to the will of God for us?
Now, since you are kin on specifics, could you please cite the Biblical passage where Jesus actually calls the Disciples Apostles and that/those passages where Jesus stated “eternal salvation” or “eternally saved.”
I think a scriptural imperative to refer to God as Trinity should also be included.

And maybe the table of contents of the Bible as well?

Or perhaps a "scriptural directive’ that we should worship on Sunday, rather than Saturday?
Considering that you believe Jesus didn’t name the Twelve Apostles Apostles, I’d advise you to read Scripture.
You know, you are sounding a little hostile.
 
I think a scriptural imperative to refer to God as Trinity should also be included.

And maybe the table of contents of the Bible as well?

Or perhaps a "scriptural directive’ that we should worship on Sunday, rather than Saturday?
This reminds me of a person that claimed to be Jew–he openly denied the New Testament and rejected it as construct… I could well have turned around and insisted upon the same about the Old Testament… but it would only serve to confuse rather than enlighten either of us and whoever were reading through the exchange; people get so caught up in making a point that they forget reason and the purpose that they are suppose to have (Jesus) as the end goal.
Considering that you believe Jesus didn’t name the Twelve Apostles Apostles, I’d advise you to read Scripture
You know, you are sounding a little hostile.


…actually, I pushed the button first; I just couldn’t take another repeat response; I apologize to all for my curtness.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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“Whom He named Apostles” is clear enough for me. Why isn’t it clear enough for you?
 
Luk_6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
I agree, it is quite clear in the holy writ.
 
The urgency of your original query suggest that it must be stated in Scriptures; since it is not stated (Jesus’ was not quoted as saying it) it goes that you have run into the same conundrum that legalists do: only you are the determining factor of what is “expressly” stated or what can be inferred.

While it is true that we have the Gospel Writer making the statement that Jesus Called the Twelve Disciples and Apostles, it is also true that not once does Jesus refers to them as “Apostles;” so we have to ascertain that what is being transmitted in the retelling of Jesus’ Missionary experience actually took place.

Now, we can tell from Jesus’ direct engagement that He called the religious elite hypocrites; we can also tell that Jesus Commanded that His Disciples be one in Him; we can also tell that He Delegated His Authority to Cephas… each of these examples are not a an inference or a retelling from a third party but instances where Jesus is actually being quoted as making such statements.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Did Jesus make such statement or did the Writer offer the additional information as a conclusion to his narrative?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
While it is true that we have the Gospel Writer making the statement that Jesus Called the Twelve Disciples and Apostles,
Which means He did call them Apostles. There’s no need to dance around it.
 
You are the one doing the dancing.

I am attempting to show how even in Scriptures we find development of Doctrine and we find missing directives that are not Written (such as the directive to Write the New Covenant Scriptures and to establish the canon of the Bible, and Jesus actually being quoted as calling His Disciples Apostles [other than a third party’s disclosure]) yet, you who have set the sky (or is it the third Heaven) as the limit now want to reverse the issue by claiming Jesus was actually quoted as saying “Apostle/s” when He was not.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Can this get any more circular:

a) you demand decreed statement
b) there’s none
c) I offer Biblical proof that the Church evolves through the Unfolding of the Word of God, as the Holy Spirit and Jesus work in the Church, which is the Body of Christ
d) I offer Biblical text where there are indirect examples of such decrees
e) you counter with but a third party said that Jesus said
f) I counter with Jesus was not quoted as saying/stating
g) a third party stated that Jesus said/stated
h) it shows development
i) it shows that we can trust that the Church is organic (capable of growth)
j) it shows that mandates and decrees can be part of the Oral Tradition (not existing in Writings for years or at all)
k) you and I will never come to terms
l) let’s let this go

…but if you insist, here’s the winning trophy: ta-da you win! 🏆

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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