… First, he says, why pray to the dead people?
The bible says that God is the Lord of the living… not the dead. The bible says that those in heaven are alive in Christ.
We see in the bible that Elijiah and Moses come down and talk to Christ about his sacrifice and death on the cross. Proving that not ONLY are those who have passed onto the next life ALIVE, but that they are aware of earthly events.
Then in Revelations, we see that the Saints and Angels take our prayers and like incense, offer them up to God. - Again, showing that they are aware of Earthly events and are actually involved in intercession.
Even in the Old testament, we see that we should not harm children because, as the bible puts it, “there angels always see the face of God” - aka “they have direct intercession with God”
I’m sure that
www.scripturecatholic.com has even MORE references from the bible about intercession saints, and angels in heaven being able to hear us.
I think he has bought into the “soul sleep” idea. He does say even if “they” are “alive” in heaven “they” would have to be “all knowing” to keep track of all the prayers. And if “they” are “all knowing” then “they” are God because only God is “all knowing”.
Challenge him on that. There is no reason that one must be ALL knowing to hear all the prayers. That is a condition that he created in his own mind. Secondly… No one is saying that those alive in heaven are doing this on their own or by their own power. This WOULD make them demi-gods. The concept is that WE can do NOTHING without God… not even exist on our own. So this would be no different in heaven. They can only hear us because God wants them to, wills them to, and allows them to. It is THROUGH him… not APART from him that they do this.
And WHY?
Because we see throughout the bible that God works THROUGH others. He can do anything he likes…but it creates a greater good if other people help each other. We are elevated and given a greater purpose if we do his will. This does not change in heaven… or why would it? Those in heaven would still WANT to help others. If you think about it… they’d want to help even more… since they are now in communion with God.
… His reply is how do I really know if someone is in heaven? What if Uncle Bill only looked like a good person and on the inside was a really bad sinner? Wouldn’t I be wasting my prayers asking him to interceded for me?
So ask him… you TRULY think that our prayers are like 1 on 1 private conversations that even God doesn’t know about… and if we pray to the wrong person, thinking they are in heaven, that our intentions, our faith, our prayers are WASTED? – He is sure of this or has so little faith in God?
First off… if he is soo concerned about someone NOT being in heaven… then fine… don’t pray to them. You should pray to those who you feel close to or feel a connection with. If you have doubt that Uncle Bill is in heaven - then don’t pray to him… that’s fine.
Secondly, stick to those holiest of people which the Church affirms are in heaven. Which there is virtually no doubt of. But it is ludicris to not pray to anyone in heaven, simply because you aren’t sure if some are in heaven or not.
Lastly, if you aren’t sure if they are in heaven… pray for their soul. The bible says that "the words of a just man availeth much. " We see in the book of Macabees, that Macabee, prayed for his fallen soldiers who had pagan amulets around their necks, causing him to doubt that they made it to heaven.
We see in the New Testament that there are 2 kinds of sins… and those which are not mortal and those which are. We are told that we can say a prayer for our brother and his sin will be forgiven (if the sin is not mortal)
Christ himself says that some sin will be forgiven in the next life, so perhaps if he is truly concerned about poor old Uncle Bill, then rather then NOT praying to him… he should pray FOR HIM. – even thought of that, hotshot?
