Intercession of the Saints

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pheonix
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Pheonix

Guest
I’m currently discussing the intercession of the saints with someone who asserts that the concept is unbiblical/contrary to Sacred Scripture. I’ve provided him with some scriptural references, logical and reasonable deductions, and evidence from the history of the Early Church (i.e. the writings of the Early Church Fathers). He, however, is ignoring this and demanding “where does Scripture teach intercessory prayer to the saints?”

I understand the Church doesn’t subscribe to sola scriptura, but are there any additional scriptural references to the intercession of the saints? I know of some of the verses in Revelation and Hebrews 12:1 point toward such a concept, but are there any others?

Thanks in advance! 🙂
 
Job shows the need to ask intercession by others.
7 After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite: “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8 Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did what the LORD had told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.
Job 42:7-9. The Lord will not accept the prayers of Eliaphaz, Bildad and Zophar; they must route their prayers through Job.

If the prayers of the living Job are efficacious, the prayers of the saints around God’s throne should be more so.
 
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”
4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.**
7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
**
What had Jesus planned for his first miracle? Someone who could heal the sick, cure the lame, make the blind see, and bring the dead to life? Whatever it was, it didn’t regard wedding refreshments, but Mary’s intercession on their behalf-- even though they were unaware of her actions-- caused him to change his own plans regarding himself.
 
“Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. Elijah was a human being like us; yet he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain upon the land. Then he prayed again, and the sky gave rain and the earth produced its fruit.”
James 5, 16-18
 
Though not strictly intercessory, there are a couple places in the protocanoncal Scriptures where people on earth pray to or prayerfully address the angels, asking them to bless or praise the Lord:

Bless the LORD, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! (Psalm 103:21)

Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host! (Psalm 148:2)

There are also a couple places in the deuterocanonical Scriptures where people on earth pray to or prayerfully address the angels or the spirits and souls of the just, asking them to bless, praise and exalt the Lord:

Angels of the Lord, bless the Lord, praise and exalt him above all forever. (Daniel 3:58)

Spirits and souls of the just, bless the Lord, praise and exalt him above all forever. (Daniel 3:86)
 
I’m currently discussing the intercession of the saints with someone who asserts that the concept is unbiblical/contrary to Sacred Scripture. I’ve provided him with some scriptural references, logical and reasonable deductions, and evidence from the history of the Early Church (i.e. the writings of the Early Church Fathers). He, however, is ignoring this and demanding “where does Scripture teach intercessory prayer to the saints?”

I understand the Church doesn’t subscribe to sola scriptura, but are there any additional scriptural references to the intercession of the saints? I know of some of the verses in Revelation and Hebrews 12:1 point toward such a concept, but are there any others?

Thanks in advance! 🙂
check this site…scripturecatholic.com

Also…intercession from the Bible…(someone beat me to Job 42):

2Sam 12…13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

15 After Nathan had gone home, the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and he became ill. 16 David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and spent the nights lying in sackcloth** on the ground. **17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.
 
It seems like the protestant is not really trying to understand and thereby conflicting with the first commandment. My point being if he is in obstinate doubt he is not being reasonable. And Pope Benedict XVI said, “Anyone who acts irrationally cannot become a disciple of Jesus.” (Homily; March 28, 2012)

The scriptures you gave from Revelation, Hebrews and Sacred Tradition is enough to inspire a reasonable person to pursue other questions in order to understand in your way of believing in what you believe.

He ends the homily saying, “Let us walk in the light of Christ who alone can destroy the darkness of error. And let us beg him that, with the courage and strength of the saints, we may be able, without fear or rancour but freely, generously and consistently, to respond to God. Amen.” If the protestant is not responding to you responding to God then there is no common ground for reason and that might be doing more harm then good.
 
“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
St. Thomas Aquinas

“I don’t condemn I don’t convert”
David Newman
 
I found these quotes, which may help…

James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8, 29 - the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected. How fervently and persistently we pray makes a difference.

When considering intercessions, I first think of the Memorare.

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.

The actual author of the Memorare is unknown. It has been traditionally attributed to the abbot St. Bernard of Clairvaux from the 12th century. This is possibly because it was championed by another Bernard, the French priest Claude Bernard, who used it extensively in his ministry to the poor and to prisoners (including some quite hardened criminals!) in the 17th century.

Claude Bernard credited reciting the Memorare with curing him of a serious illness. He had some 200,000 copies of the prayer printed up and distributed in leaflets in various languages during his lifetime. (This was no small feat in the days before desktop publishing, Kinko’s and the Internet!)

Church teaching holds that Mary is the Mother of the Church and our mother as well “in the order of grace” (that is to say, spiritually) as we read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 969).

Upon her death and assumption into heaven, “God chose her to be the treasurer, the administrator and the dispenser of all his graces, so that all his graces and gifts pass through her hands,” according to St. Louis De Montfort, the celebrated 18th century French priest best known as a champion of devotion to Mary.

Mary’s wonderful role in assisting in our salvation has been praised by many Saints and Church fathers alike over the centuries. St. Lawrence Justinian summed up the feelings of many of them when he once referred to the Blessed Mother as “the ladder of paradise, the gate of heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and man.”

Do you have a particular problem you feel you can’t share with our Creator? Or perhaps you think he’s too busy? He’s never too busy to hear a sincere request for His aid and guidance. (Indeed, he’s never too busy for any of us, period!) Still, we are always welcome to ask His mother to help us. In fact this delights our Lord!

As De Montfort once put it, by asking Mary to approach Him for us “we are practicing humility, something which always gladdens the heart of God!” (St. Francis de Sales once wrote in this regard that “God so loves humility that He instantly hastens to the soul in which he sees it.”)

Keep in mind again that when we pray to Mary we also pray through her to her Divine Son, Jesus!
 
I come from a Protestant background myself and was taught that “praying to saints” was wrong, one must pray only to God Himself. The difficulty is that Protestants believe Catholics are asking the saint to carry out the intention, they fail to understand that it is a request for intercession. Remind your friend that Protestants have never had any problem with asking living family and friends to pray for them - asking the saints to intercede on their behalf is no different.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top