Intercession of The Theotokos

[Miserissima]

With the prayer rule I’ve often said the prayer, “Most Holy Theotokos, Dave us,” and have a question about it.

It just struck me to ask: is it hyperbolic speech? I know that both Eastern and Western Catholics believe that Mary has no power on her own to save but is the most powerful and beloved intercessor boxy to Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Explaining Western Marian prayers to non Catholics is one thing (i.e. calling her ‘our life, our sweetness,.and our hope’). Being apologetic about the comparatively enhanced Marian devotion is a new ballgame for me.

 

[TRH1292]

Well, as Jimmy Akin pointed out someplace in an article I no longer know of the location of, “Save” can be spoken of in different sense. The common Old Testament was often “Deliver” as opposed to “redeem”. So it could be mean “save us” as in deliver us out of the trouble we are in through your intercessions. But it is not language I would normally use unless I said “Save me out of this situation I am in” very explicitly.

 

[Vico]

From the Akathist of the Dormition, Ikos 12:
Praising your all-venerable Dormition, we sing hymns to your going up to the heavenly realm, O Queen and Mother of God. Sanctify, glorify, and save all who lovingly sing to you:
From the Office of Consolation to the Most Holy Theotokos, Ode 6, Irmos:I believe, O Virgin, that through your intercession you save and protect my life, dispelling many temptations and casting out the cunning snares of the devil. Now I implore you without ceasing: Deliver me from my corrupting passions.

 

[Miserissima]

Well, as Jimmy Akin pointed out someplace in an article I no longer know of the location of, “Save” can be spoken of in different sense. The common Old Testament was often “Deliver” as opposed to “redeem”. So it could be mean “save us” as in deliver us out of the trouble we are in through your intercessions. But it is not language I would normally use unless I said “Save me out of this situation I am in” very explicitly.

I
I can’t find that exact same article and yes, I looked for it too!

The verbs you gave such as ‘save’ and ‘deliver,’ still imply that Mary has the power to do so.

Perhaps by idiomatic speech coupled with correct catechesis, in addition to a lacking in translation has makes it difficult for English speakers to grasp.

 

[TRH1292]

I
I can’t find that exact same article and yes, I looked for it too!

The verbs you gave such as ‘save’ and ‘deliver,’ still imply that Mary has the power to do so.

Perhaps by idiomatic speech coupled with correct catechesis, in addition to a lacking in translation has makes it difficult for English speakers to grasp.

I actually found it. It’s on pages 26-32 in The Salvation Controversy.

 

[TK421]

I
I can’t find that exact same article and yes, I looked for it too!

The verbs you gave such as ‘save’ and ‘deliver,’ still imply that Mary has the power to do so.

Perhaps by idiomatic speech coupled with correct catechesis, in addition to a lacking in translation has makes it difficult for English speakers to grasp.

1 Corinthians 9: 20-22
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) so that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law) so that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, so that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that I might by all means save some.

^

This is perhaps one example among many, but when we say that one is ‘saving’ another, it is not to say that we deny that it is by the grace of God that this comes about, or that one creature is saving another creature by their own power, or a creature is saving themselves by their own power. Even in everyday life, if one had a key person in their life that won them over to Christ, the person might say that they ‘saved’ them, but this, too, is not a denial that grace comes from God.

Although as a creature, one is powerless on his or her own, they are by Sovereign decree a participator in the saving work of God, and indeed, for a creature in Heaven, whose pleasure is inseparable from God’s pleasure, this is made perfectly true.

 

[Vico]

With the prayer rule I’ve often said the prayer, “Most Holy Theotokos, Dave us,” and have a question about it.

It just struck me to ask: is it hyperbolic speech? I know that both Eastern and Western Catholics believe that Mary has no power on her own to save but is the most powerful and beloved intercessor boxy to Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Explaining Western Marian prayers to non Catholics is one thing (i.e. calling her ‘our life, our sweetness,.and our hope’). Being apologetic about the comparatively enhanced Marian devotion is a new ballgame for me.

St. Seraphim kept a little took with this rule.

15 decades:

Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos,
Mary full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
for thou hast borne Christ the Savior,
the Deliverer of our souls.

After each decade say

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness,
O blessed Mother of God,
in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray;
but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities,
for thou art the salvation of all Christian people.

reu.org/public/prayers/0008.txt

 

[marywarfield]

With the prayer rule I’ve often said the prayer, “Most Holy Theotokos, Dave us,” and have a question about it.

It just struck me to ask: is it hyperbolic speech? I know that both Eastern and Western Catholics believe that Mary has no power on her own to save but is the most powerful and beloved intercessor boxy to Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Explaining Western Marian prayers to non Catholics is one thing (i.e. calling her ‘our life, our sweetness,.and our hope’). Being apologetic about the comparatively enhanced Marian devotion is a new ballgame for me.

It is because she bore the Savior of our souls in her
womb. Her active fiat gives her the description
“salvation of the Christian race”. Mary is for US. We
are created within her in the spiritual sense.
St. Louis De Montfort discusses her role in salvation
of Christians in his book Secret of Mary
ewtn.com/library/Montfort/secret.htm

 

[Googler]

Immaculata said, you have no idea the depth of the love you have for God. Say wonderful things to Him and say wonderful things to others. Giving God glory is the cause of our happiness. Knowing, loving, and serving Him is our purpose in life. To the extent we give Him glory, the more happy we’ll be. God blesses those who bless Him.
Mary, take over.

 

[Miserissima]

Thanks, all. I just a quick needed reassurance on words of veneration in context. Thank you!

 

[prodromos]

Throughout the history of the Church, Panagia (Mary) has continually played a very active role in saving the faithful Christians. She saved the entire city of Constantinople from destruction on one occasion in the siege of Constantinople of 626 after Patriarch Sergios and the faithful made a procession around the city with her icon. The kontakion “To thee, the Champion Leader, we thy servants dedicate a feast of victory and of thanksgiving as ones rescued out of sufferings, O Theotokos; but as thou art one with might which is invincible, from all dangers that can be do thou deliver us, that we may cry to thee: Rejoice, thou Bride Unwedded.” was written in honor of her intercession.

 

[Googler]

prod, I heard there is a Marian feast day for every day of the year among the Orthodox. Tell me, do you believe Mary ever died?
Oh, also, what does that mean, Bride Unwedded? Thanks.

 

[prodromos]

prod, I heard there is a Marian feast day for every day of the year among the Orthodox.

That is a bit of an exaggeration, though every Saturday is dedicated to all Saints and especially Panagia, our Lord’s mother and there are many feast days throughout the year commemorating miracle working icons of Mary and other times where she powerfully interceded in times of great difficulty.

Tell me, do you believe Mary ever died?

Yes, she died. This was also originally the teaching in Rome.

Oh, also, what does that mean, Bride Unwedded? Thanks.

It is a reference to her ever virginity. She was betrothed but never married, so there was no consumation of the marriage.

 

[grandfather]

I

The verbs you gave such as ‘save’ and ‘deliver,’ still imply that Mary has the power to do so.

Perhaps by idiomatic speech coupled with correct catechesis, in addition to a lacking in translation has makes it difficult for English speakers to grasp.

Surely you pray for others. You pray for health, salvation and other blessings for others. If God hears and answers your prayers, others are benefitted by your intercession. By the power of your prayer they come to grace. Do you then have the power to bring spiritual benefit to others?

Of course Mary has the power to save and deliver. The power is given to her by God and she uses it freely as she wills according to her maternal instinct and love of her children. She is Queen of Heaven and Mother of God. Angels serve her. She protects and saves her children.

 

[Miserissima]

All, I’m totally on board with Marian doctrine.

I’m just looking for the hyperbolic language context.