Intercessory prayer: why?

[gearhead]

There’s something I’ve often wondered about, both with my wife in mass and in other settings: why do Catholics pray for things to happen?

I mean, you believe that God knows all and has a perfect plan, right? What’s gained by telling God something He already knows? Are you trying to get God to deviate from his perfect plan for your own benefit?

What would be wrong with sticking to prayers of thanks and worship, or at the very most, simply praying “Your will be done”?

I know this isn’t solely a Catholic thing, but I’m interested in the Catholic perspective on this.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

God’s perfect plan involves something happening because of your prayer.

If you don’t pray, that thing won’t happen.

This is all a consequence of God giving us free will. God limits His omnipotence, because He has made us the stewards of His creation.

 

[cazayoux]

There’s something I’ve often wondered about, both with my wife in mass and in other settings: why do Catholics pray for things to happen?

I mean, you believe that God knows all and has a perfect plan, right? What’s gained by telling God something He already knows? Are you trying to get God to deviate from his perfect plan for your own benefit?

What would be wrong with sticking to prayers of thanks and worship, or at the very most, simply praying “Your will be done”?

I know this isn’t solely a Catholic thing, but I’m interested in the Catholic perspective on this.

Luke 11:9-10
[9] And I tell you, Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
[10] For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Your Father WANTS to have this type of relationship with you.
You have a plan for your children to raise them to be happy and successful (however you define this).
Does this mean that your children cannot ask for things of you day to day?
Of course not.

Ask and it will be given to you.

Cheers!

michel

 

[gearhead]

God’s perfect plan involves something happening because of your prayer.

If you don’t pray, that thing won’t happen.

This is all a consequence of God giving us free will. God limits His omnipotence, because He has made us the stewards of His creation.

So… effectively, you rule over God?

Say your friend is sick and God wants to heal him. God will deny your friend His grace if you don’t specifically ask Him for it? This does not sound like a perfect plan to me.

Luke 11:9-10
[9] And I tell you, Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
[10] For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Your Father WANTS to have this type of relationship with you.
You have a plan for your children to raise them to be happy and successful (however you define this).
Does this mean that your children cannot ask for things of you day to day?
Of course not.

Ask and it will be given to you.

But a human father may not know exactly what his child wants in order to be happy. He might not know when the child is hungry, thirsty or hurt; this isn’t true of God, is it?

 

[cazayoux]

But a human father may not know exactly what his child wants in order to be happy. He might not know when the child is hungry, thirsty or hurt; this isn’t true of God, is it?

The point is that if your child asks something of you, such as a new bike, does fulfilling that request affect the overall goal for that child?

In other words, can God answer your prayer (with a yes or a no) and still guide your life to where he wants it to go?
I believe so.

michel

 

[gearhead]

The point is that if your child asks something of you, such as a new bike, does fulfilling that request affect the overall goal for that child?

In other words, can God answer your prayer (with a yes or a no) and still guide your life to where he wants it to go?
I believe so.

I’m fine with the logic that far, but I have trouble with the other side: that some necessity or blessing would be contingent upon prayer.

I don’t know any human father who would deny their child something that they actually need. For example, a father knows that his child needs to eat, so he’ll give his child dinner… whether or not the child explicitly asks for it.

 

[FCEGM]

There’s something I’ve often wondered about, both with my wife in mass and in other settings: why do Catholics pray for things to happen?

I mean, you believe that God knows all and has a perfect plan, right? What’s gained by telling God something He already knows? Are you trying to get God to deviate from his perfect plan for your own benefit?

What would be wrong with sticking to prayers of thanks and worship, or at the very most, simply praying “Your will be done”?

I know this isn’t solely a Catholic thing, but I’m interested in the Catholic perspective on this.

Why? First, because prayer is a recognition of our dependency on our Loving Father. Prayer is an exercise in humility. Second, because He has freely ordained that some of His gifts are dispensed in response to prayer - another reason for humility in the face of our poverty meeting His largesse.

"He has already seen everything before we ask Him. The whole course of events lies spread before His eternal eye, and proceeds according to the designs of His Love. He sees events and all their causes. Among their moral causes He sees also this present prayer of ours.

"Our own poor prayer, offered up from this lost corner of the universe, at this fleeting moment of time, was taken into consideration from all eternity by this omnipotent God Who holds all things in His hands. . .He heard it, where He dwells beyond time and change, where there is no before and after. . . .He saw our intention and He saw our need in the eternal simplicity of creative Thought. He welcomed our prayer before it was uttered. . . . .[Prayer] sets us already in our place in eternity, while we are still borne along on the current of time. It brings us back to the true source of our life, and associates us with this universal government by which [He makes] all things serve the true good of [His sons and daughters]. Abbe Emile Guerry, God the Father: Meditations.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So… effectively, you rule over God?

Essentially. Actually, God chooses to let you have the authority, in particular situations. That is the meaning of free will.

Say your friend is sick and God wants to heal him. God will deny your friend His grace if you don’t specifically ask Him for it? This does not sound like a perfect plan to me.

God will not deny your friend his grace, but it is not grace that heals us. It is power. God knows every little thing that happens to us, but God sees the big picture – my friend being healed is not important in the big picture. My friend can follow God while sick, he can bear witness while sick, he can find consolation while sick, etc.

It doesn’t matter that much to God if my friend is healed, but it matters to me. And so, God will give me the opportunity to ease my friend’s suffering. It’s up to me to take that opportunity.

(Mind you, God will likely heal my friend anyway – or, the body God made for him will restore itself, at least. Oftentimes, as you say, God would do what we want, without our asking.)

I don’t know any human father who would deny their child something that they actually need. For example, a father knows that his child needs to eat, so he’ll give his child dinner… whether or not the child explicitly asks for it.

But we don’t know what’s good for us, and God does. He will give us everything we need, but our prayers rarely ask for *needs *and often ask for wants.

Hope this helps. I think this is a really good question to be asking, by the way.

 

[Thing]

Came across this if its any help;

“Loose upon earth”… The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence; the power of which is here granted.

He established a Church with Authority from Him to act. If St. Peter wished to loose something upon earth he now had the power to do so.

 

[cazayoux]

Came across this if its any help;

“Loose upon earth”… The loosing the bands of temporal punishments due to sins, is called an indulgence; the power of which is here granted.

He established a Church with Authority from Him to act. If St. Peter wished to loose something upon earth he now had the power to do so.

I tend to see the binding and loosing a little differently.
If it is bound on earth, it is already bound in heaven.

It’s as if the gift given to Peter was to recognize what is already true in heaven.
Not for Peter to define truth, and heaven must obey him.

Not sure how subtle that difference seems to others, but that’s my take on it at the moment.

michel

 

[bbentrup]

There’s something I’ve often wondered about, both with my wife in mass and in other settings: why do Catholics pray for things to happen?

I mean, you believe that God knows all and has a perfect plan, right? What’s gained by telling God something He already knows? Are you trying to get God to deviate from his perfect plan for your own benefit?

What would be wrong with sticking to prayers of thanks and worship, or at the very most, simply praying “Your will be done”?

I know this isn’t solely a Catholic thing, but I’m interested in the Catholic perspective on this.

As a Catholic, it sometimes amuses me too, since I’m fully aware that God knows all of our needs before we even ask for them, and that God privdes good things to His children. So, it simply seems the answer to the question is not about outcomes, but about relationships. God wants us to ask him, and to ask others (including the saints) to ask him. He wants us to grow to be one family in faith.

When I want something, I usually ignore it, and simply trust in God to provide for my needs, simply asking, “Thy will be done.” Yet, sometimes a request does appear to be very beneficial for my family or for someone else, so I will utter an intercessory prayer on behalf of that person(s) to God to help fulfill what appear to be legitimate needs, as far as earthly needs go.

 

[Carlan]

I am not sure that this is the appropriate spot for this lesson on prayer especially since the question is about
Intersessary prayer, and this is really just an over view on prayer in general and one I was given many, many years ago, and still ,to this day, take another look at. Carlan

Prayer should be not as much to ask God to give us what we need but God convincing us of what we need.

Prayer should fill us with the Holy Spirit,
Allowing God to lead us in asking Him for
What he wants for us.
Lord, give me the power of desire for your holy word.
Give me the power of holy desire. Ps.95-100

When we adore and praise the Lord, we open ourselves up
For close relationship with Him.
He draws us to the foot of the cross….

Confession-
Forgiveness—
Thanksgiving–
This cleanses us then we commit ourselves to Him–

Commitment—
Trusting all to the Lord.

Meditation—
In prayer God guides our thoughts…new thoughts are given,
Our prayer should be in keeping with what he wants for us.

It is a discipline and we must set time aside for it.
Lord, help me to sit quietly at your feet everyday. Amen

On faith in prayer, Faith asks, humbly waits and then accepts
The results without hesitation, without doubts.

Faith is the asking , for we acknowledge by our request
That Jesus is Lord, however, hope gives us the assurance

That whatever answer we receive-be it yes or no- that reply
Is in our best interest.

It is here that love accepts with joy whatever God’s will
Requires of us.

This is the faith admired and praised and expected by
Jesus from those he has redeemed.:getholy: Carlan

 

[FCEGM]

I am not sure that this is the appropriate spot for this lesson on prayer especially since the question is about
Intersessary prayer, and this is really just an over view on prayer in general and one I was given many, many years ago, and still ,to this day, take another look at. Carlan

Prayer should be not as much to ask God to give us what we need but God convincing us of what we need.

Prayer should fill us with the Holy Spirit,
Allowing God to lead us in asking Him for
What he wants for us.
Lord, give me the power of desire for your holy word.
Give me the power of holy desire. Ps.95-100

When we adore and praise the Lord, we open ourselves up
For close relationship with Him.
He draws us to the foot of the cross….

Confession-
Forgiveness—
Thanksgiving–
This cleanses us then we commit ourselves to Him–

Commitment—
Trusting all to the Lord.

Meditation—
In prayer God guides our thoughts…new thoughts are given,
Our prayer should be in keeping with what he wants for us.

It is a discipline and we must set time aside for it.
Lord, help me to sit quietly at your feet everyday. Amen

On faith in prayer, Faith asks, humbly waits and then accepts
The results without hesitation, without doubts.

Faith is the asking , for we acknowledge by our request
That Jesus is Lord, however, hope gives us the assurance

That whatever answer we receive-be it yes or no- that reply
Is in our best interest.

It is here that love accepts with joy whatever God’s will
Requires of us.

This is the faith admired and praised and expected by
Jesus from those he has redeemed.:getholy: Carlan

Thanks for making this important point that intercessory prayer is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Also worth noting here: intercessory prayer helps us to trust God. In this way, it may benefit us, even though God would have done it anyway.

A trivial (or perhaps not so trivial) example: An hour ago, my 3-year-old daughter Dorothy and I were looking for my 2-year-old son’s cup. We had looked for 10 minutes, and I was getting frustrated. Then I heard Dorothy saying, “Father God, we ask that you would help us find Isaac’s cup.” We turned the corner and the cup was right there.

 

[Ignatius]

There’s something I’ve often wondered about.

You ask why interceed in prayer for one another? Short answer: because Holy Scripture tells us to, both explicitly written and by example.

 

[Rico_S]

Also worth noting here: intercessory prayer helps us to trust God. In this way, it may benefit us, even though God would have done it anyway.

Well, it can certainly have the opposite effect as well. I knew a 4 year old who suffered from lukemia. She had a bone marrow transplant and was struggling for her life. My family said a rosary together each day for her. We set up a 24 hour/ week long prayer vigil through our parish community during her toughest time. God was literally bombarded with prayer on this child’s behalf.

She died.

Luke 11:9-10
[9] And I tell you, Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
[10] For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Well, it can certainly have the opposite effect as well. I knew a 4 year old who suffered from lukemia. She had a bone marrow transplant and was struggling for her life. My family said a rosary together each day for her. We set up a 24 hour/ week long prayer vigil through our parish community during her toughest time. God was literally bombarded with prayer on this child’s behalf.

She died.

You’re right, that unanswered prayer can be a major difficulty, in terms of faith. When Jesus tells us to “ask and **it **will be given”, then, what is he talking about? What is it? It is quite obvious that he was not saying that he would give us whatever we asked for, because we have tried this and failed. The full passage:

1And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

2And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

3Give us day by day our daily bread.

4And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

5And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;

6For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him?

7And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.

8I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.

9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father **give the Holy Spirit **to them that ask him? (Bolding mine)

In the context of the passage, Jesus is talking about things *we *need, not things we want to happen. In particular, He is saying that we need the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is what gives us our daily bread, forgives us our sins, and keeps us from temptation.

The world is clearly not designed to conform to our wishes, but that does not mean that God will never act on our wishes. Sometimes He does not act on our wishes, but He always provides the grace for us to continue having faith.

 

[Rico_S]

The world is clearly not designed to conform to our wishes, but that does not mean that God will never act on our wishes. Sometimes He does not act on our wishes,

So, God sometimes does act on our prayers/desires/wishes…Are you saying that God hears our prayers and will sometimes do something that he would not have done had we not prayed? That we, in effect, can change the will of God through prayer? Or are you saying that our prayers will sometimes be answered b/c those requests were in line with God’s will from the start?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So, God sometimes does act on our prayers/desires/wishes…Are you saying that God hears our prayers and will sometimes do something that he would not have done had we not prayed? That we, in effect, can change the will of God through prayer?

This is what I am saying, essentially. God already allows us to make decisions that are free, right? So if I decide to go see a movie, then God has indirectly – by giving me free will – willed (or allowed) that outcome.

It is largely the same thing with prayer. By giving me the power to pray, and by answering prayers, God has given me the capacity to change his universe, in ways that would not have happened had I not prayed. Now, obviously, God will not answer any prayers that go expressly against His will, but why must we assume that our will cannot cooperate and co-create with God’s will?

Or are you saying that our prayers will sometimes be answered b/c those requests were in line with God’s will from the start?

God is outside of time. In making us free, God has made us co-creators of his world, and He is limiting Himself to abide by our decisions. If we ask Him in faith, He will give us what we need – and He will even grant many things we want and do not need. (Please note that most prayers are not made in faith. You have to trust and believe God’s power to do the thing prayed – this is an act of will, not intellect.)

Intercessory prayer is another form of executive power granted to the human person. Unfortunately (or more likely, fortunately), God has veto power.

 

[Carlan]

So, God sometimes does act on our prayers/desires/wishes…Are you saying that God hears our prayers and will sometimes do something that he would not have done had we not prayed? That we, in effect, can change the will of God through prayer? Or are you saying that our prayers will sometimes be answered b/c those requests were in line with God’s will from the start?

Good morning Rico,
Again I’ll quote from my earlier post,

 Faith is the asking , for we acknowledge by our request

That Jesus is Lord, however, hope gives us the assurance

That whatever answer we receive-be it yes or no- that reply
Is in our best interest.

It is here that love accepts with joy whatever God’s will
Requires of us.

This is the faith admired and praised and expected by
Jesus from those he has redeemed

We have to pray for the Faith to trust God no matter how he answers prayer. we don’t understand so much in this life we just have to give it up to Him in trust. Keep asking him for the grace of trust, peace will come. Carlan