Intercessory prayer

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Help… I need proof that we should ask Mary to intercede for us. In the words of the person asking- “not something that I would have to twist and look at in a certain view to arrive at the same interpretation as you do.”

I’m at a loss… could someone help me out here?
 
oh, and I’m pretty sure they want biblical proof, since they’re sola scriptura

:confused:
 
Study the role of the OT Gebira, which was the queen Mother, in ancient Israel. I’ll see if I can find it in my notes.

Basically, with the numerous wives that the Kings of Israel had, the queen was the Mother of the King. Her role is to intercede on behalf of the populace and take their petitions to the king. That is what Mary, the Mother of Christ the King, does in the New Israel.
 
OK, here is something I did for our adult class. I’m sorry that its long.

I want to read to you two passages involving Bathsheba. The first one takes places during David’s reign as Israel’s king. “So Bathsheba visited the king in his room….Bathsheba bowed in homage to the king, who said to her, "What do you wish? (1 Kings 1:15-16)” The second one takes place during Solomon’s reign as Israel’s king. “Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king’s mother, WHO SAT AT HIS RIGHT. “There is one small favor I would ask of you,” she said. “Do not refuse me.” “Ask it, my mother,” the king said to her, "for I will not refuse you” (2nd Kings 2:19-20).

What is the difference in these two scenarios? Why does Bathsheba get so much better treatment from Solomon than from David, who obviously loved her immensely? Not only does Bathsheba get more respect from him, but Solomon places a chair “at his right”, which is a sign of authority in the ancient monarchies. We see this in the Gospel of Matthew 20:21, “She (James and John’s mother) answered him, ‘Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.’"

The difference is that in David’s Kingdom, Bathsheba was one of his many wives. Solomon, too, had many wives. According to 1st Kings 11:3, “He had seven hundred wives of princely rank and three hundred concubines…” Now, let me ask you, which one of these wives should be the queen? Any system of determining which wife would be queen would open up a bloodbath among those next in line for the queen’s position. Instead, ancient kingdoms, including Israel, made the King’s mother the Queen. This position, the Gebira, is Bathsheba’s position in Solomon’s Kingdom. The role of the Gebira was as the chief intercessor for the common man, as evidenced by Bathsheba, who was taking a request to the King Solomon for Adonijah, “for he would not refuse her”.

There are other places in the Old Testament that show the queen mother in ancient Israel had real power. Jeremiah is speaking for the Lord in chapter 13:18-20, “**Say to the king and to the queen mother: come down from your throne; From your heads fall your magnificent crowns.**The cities of the Negeb are besieged, with no one to relieve them; All Judah is banished in universal exile. Lift up your eyes and see men coming from the north. Where is the flock entrusted to you, the sheep that were your glory?” Also in 2nd Kings, the King of Babylon is fixing to route Jerusalem. “Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, himself arrived at the city while his servants were besieging it. Then Jehoiachin, king of Judah, together with his mother, his ministers, officers, and functionaries, surrendered to the king of Babylon… (2nd Kings 24, 11-12). We know from Scriptures that groups of people were most often listed in order of importance. That’s why Peter is always listed first among the Apostles.

Are these just exceptions to the rule in the Davidic Kingdom? Of course not. Throughout 2nd Kings and 1st and 2nd Chronicles, each king that is listed is paired up with his mother. So why is this important? Because one of Jesus’ missions was to restore the Davidic Kingdom. God had promised King David a kingdom that will last forever. The Messiah, from the stump of Jesse (David’s father), would renew this kingdom. In 2nd Samuel 7, verses 12-14, “And when your (David’s) time comes and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your heir after you, sprung from your loins, and I will make his kingdom firm. It is he who shall build a house for my name. And I will make his royal throne firm forever. I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me…” Jesus, of course, is the new King, but it had to be proven to the Jews that Jesus came from the house of David. Matthew does this in chapter 1, detailing the lineage of Jesus. But he traces Jesus’ lineage through Mary, thus introducing her as the queen mother, as well. Do we see this queen anywhere else in the New Testament? Revelations, Chapter 12, verse 1, “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars”. This woman is Mary. It’s interesting to note that John never used Mary’s name in his Gospel. He called her “Woman” or “Jesus’ mother”. Similarly, John calls her “Woman” when describing the Queen in Heaven in Revelation. Is this Queen Mary? It says in verse 5 that her son is “destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod” – a direct quote regarding the Messiah from Psalm 2. This child can only be Jesus, so the Woman would be Mary.

What is Mary’s role as Queen of Heaven? As intercessor for the common man, since she is the Gebira of the New Israel. Do we see her performing this role anywhere in the New Testament? In John, chapter 2 at the wedding of Cana.
 
Certainly the dead cannot pray, but the living can. And what are the saints except the living? They live fully in God, more fully than we do, and yet do we not pray for one another? So than what is stopping them from asking God to show us His Mercy?
 
Thanks for the replies! NW- I basically shortened * paraphrased your post. It was all fine and dandy until the guy I’m debating with got down to the part about revelation. here is his reply:

"Except that you missed out where it says the lady “cried out in pain. Mary was sinless, and pain (particularity child birth) is a result of sin. Right?”
To which I simply replied: “pain =/= sin”

I was discussing this debate with a friend, who directed me to this paragraph from New Advent
After bringing forth her Son, Mary “wrapped Him up in swaddling clothes, and laid Him in a manger” (Luke 2:7), a sign that she** did not suffer from the pain and weakness of childbirth. **This inference agrees with the teaching of some of the principal Fathers and theologians: St. Ambrose [56], St. Gregory of Nyssa [57], St. John Damascene [58], the author of Christus patiens [59], St. Thomas [60], etc. It was not becoming that the mother of God should be subject to the punishment pronounced in Genesis 3:16, against Eve and her sinful daughters.
newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

I am very confused, Rev 12:2 states that “2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.” Could someone help me out again? :confused:
 
Queen Esther is a prophetic type-indicator for Mary. She interceded with the king for the safety of the Jews at the risk of her own life. The king loved her for her beauty, integrity and dignity.

Mary is a member of the Body of Christ. All members can pray for each other, whether living or deceased, because they are alive in Christ.

Who better to intercede with the Son than His mother? Jesus was reluctant to perform a miracle at Cana. (“My time has not yet come.”) She didn’t argue or reason with Him; she simply turned her attention to the waiters and told them to do whatever Jesus told them. She assumed that He would do as she requested.

Jesus gave Mary as mother to all of us in the person of John at Calvary.

And lastly, maybe the best reason to do it is that it works. It even works for sceptics.
 
All wonderful articles. Thanks!!! I will too use them to explain intercessory prayer to Mary
 
First, you will probably want to establish that it is a praiseworthy thing to ask other Christians to pray for you. You could cite the example of St. Paul who, by means of letters, often asked distant Christians to pray for him. (Colossians 4:3; 1 Thessalonians 5:25)

Next, you will probably want to establish that Mary is a Christian who is now probably in heaven. You could cite Mary’s presence among the disciples of Christ after His ascension and on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:14; 2:1) and John’s vision of the mother of the Word of God in heaven. (Revelation 12:1)

Then, you will probably want to establish that it is OK to address those in heaven. You could cite Psalm 103:21 and Psalm 148:2, where the psalmist asks the angels to praise the Lord, and, if the folks you are speaking with will accept the deuterocanonical verses of Daniel, Daniel 3:58, 3:86, where the three young men in the fiery furnace ask the angels of the Lord and the spirits and souls of the just to bless the Lord.

Finally, apply logic:
If it’s a praiseworthy thing to ask even distant Christians to pray for you and Mary is a Christian in heaven and it’s OK to address those in heaven, then it is a praiseworthy thing to ask Mary to pray for you.
 
Thanks for the replies! NW- I basically shortened * paraphrased your post. It was all fine and dandy until the guy I’m debating with got down to the part about revelation. here is his reply:

"Except that you missed out where it says the lady “cried out in pain. Mary was sinless, and pain (particularity child birth) is a result of sin. Right?”
To which I simply replied: “pain =/= sin”

I was discussing this debate with a friend, who directed me to this paragraph from New Advent

newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

I am very confused, Rev 12:2 states that “2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.” Could someone help me out again? :confused:
Your friend is forgetting how rich in meaning Revelation is.

This following thread addresses it. Don’t worry, it’s pretty short.
 
Help… I need proof that we should ask Mary to intercede for us. In the words of the person asking- “not something that I would have to twist and look at in a certain view to arrive at the same interpretation as you do.”

I’m at a loss… could someone help me out here?
Construct a large double-blind study on intercessory prayer.

Or…research the studies that have already been done:

templeton.org/newsroom/press_releases/060407step.html
 
how do we know that the main purpose for the queen was to be an intercessor for the common folk?

in the future I really should avoid debating with people on topics that I know next to nothing about :confused:
 
how do we know that the main purpose for the queen was to be an intercessor for the common folk?

in the future I really should avoid debating with people on topics that I know next to nothing about :confused:
It’s basically the ONLY role we see the Gebira performing in the OT. Look at the scene where Bathsheba takes the petitions of adonijah (?) to Solomon.
 
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