Interested in Byzantine Catholicism

[apharman]

Hello everyone. As someone who has always felt comfortable being a Roman Catholic, I stumbled upon the beauty of Eastern Catholicism quite recently and I am deciding to go attend a Divine Liturgy soon. I have many questions and I was hoping they could be answered.

1.) I was looking at the closest Byzantine Church to my house and it says "Daily Liturgy: 9:00, Sunday Liturgy: 10:00. Will the daily Liturgy be different from the Sunday Liturgy? Will there be some sort of a missal inside to help guide a newcomer?

2.) I was looking at the following calendar (see link below) and realized how different it was to the current Roman calendar. Do Byzantine Catholics have holy days of obligations to attend?

byzcath.org/index.php/resources-mainmenu-63/2013-liturgical-calendar

3.) I am interested in many of the fasts and they seem rigorous which really appeals to me. Can you explain the nature of these fasts and the duration? I see the dormition fast is coming up and I want to participate in it.

4.) Anything else I should know before going?

Thank you for spending your time reading this. May the Peace of Christ be with you always!

 

[rciadan]

The weekday liturgy is shorter.
Just go. It will be a little confusing at first but you will “get it” quickly and you will love it!
Don’t be afraid to ask the priest questions. I am sure he will love your interest.
Welcome to the Light of the East!

 

[MassEffectDude]

I went to my first divine liturgy this past weekend, the church I went to did have a written book with the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom inside it.

 

[babochka]

The weekday liturgy is shorter.
Just go. It will be a little confusing at first but you will “get it” quickly and you will love it!
Don’t be afraid to ask the priest questions. I am sure he will love your interest.
Welcome to the Light of the East!

Not significantly. . There are no omitted parts, such as the Roman rite omitting the Gloria and the Creed on weekdays. The Divine Liturgy is still sung, incense is still used. In my experience, the homily is shorter and the distribution of communion is shorter because there are fewer people. The wording of a few of the prayers is slightly different, but not in a way that affects the length of the liturgy. I went to a Divine Liturgy of Tuesday in which I was the only person in the congregation. The homily was omitted and the singing was on the fast side, and it just over an hour. Our liturgy on Sundays ususally lasts an hour an 20 minutes or so. That’s just about enough time for a homily and to distribute Communion to a large number of people.

 

[UncleBill]

Not significantly. . There are no omitted parts, such as the Roman rite omitting the Gloria and the Creed on weekdays. The Divine Liturgy is still sung, incense is still used. In my experience, the homily is shorter and the distribution of communion is shorter because there are fewer people. The wording of a few of the prayers is slightly different, but not in a way that affects the length of the liturgy. I went to a Divine Liturgy of Tuesday in which I was the only person in the congregation. The homily was omitted and the singing was on the fast side, and it just over an hour. Our liturgy on Sundays ususally lasts an hour an 20 minutes or so. That’s just about enough time for a homily and to distribute Communion to a large number of people.

Depends where you go and what jurisdiction the parish belongs to…I have never been to a Ukrainian Catholic Liturgy on a weekday that was sung…always recited and no incense, and VERY abbreviated. Usually finished in about 30 min give or take.

 

[PennyinCanada]

There will be a little black book that you can follow along but for the first time it might be nice just to watch what’s going on and listen.

There are prayers for the deceased placed along the way in the book. If you are not doing a liturgy for a deceased person, those are skipped over, and sometimes, if you aren’t familiar with that, the Liturgy moves along, leaving one wondering where they jumped to. lol

When I went during the week, the Liturgy was spoken because there weren’t any singers there that could lead. Sunday was always sung. We loved going to Vespers on Saturday evening, the words were a catechism in themselves, very powerful!

The Eastern Rite tends to minimize the humanity of Christ and emphasize His divinity. This suits my sensibilities, and maybe yours too. Best wishes and let us know how it goes!

 

[Aramis]

1.) I was looking at the closest Byzantine Church to my house and it says "Daily Liturgy: 9:00, Sunday Liturgy: 10:00. Will the daily Liturgy be different from the Sunday Liturgy? Will there be some sort of a missal inside to help guide a newcomer?

If it’s a ruthenian church, very likely there will be a people’s-book with annotated chants. the big green one is a pain to use because of the multiple melodic options. The thin green one has only one option printed, but is much easier due to no page skips, but may not be the melodies in use.

If it’s Ukrainian,Melkite, or Romanian, then probably a book with the texts but not the music…

The daily liturgy changes a couple of the responses, and is slightly shorter in general, but the flow overall is the same. Ours tends to be 45 minutes to one hour, since the optional litany extension isn’t taken on weekdays (takes 5min) and smaller crowds tend to sing slightly faster, vs about 1 hour to 1hr 15 min for sunday. (Easter runs 2-3 hours.)

2.) I was looking at the following calendar (see link below) and realized how different it was to the current Roman calendar. Do Byzantine Catholics have holy days of obligations to attend?

Yes, but they don’t all match the Roman obligations.

3.) I am interested in many of the fasts and they seem rigorous which really appeals to me. Can you explain the nature of these fasts and the duration? I see the dormition fast is coming up and I want to participate in it.

Dormition: the falling asleep of Mary in death, her soul being admitted to heaven, and then her body being assumed 3 days later, perfected, and reunited to her soul, the first to experience what the general resurrection at the end of time portends…

4.) Anything else I should know before going?

Wear comfortable shoes; you’ll be standing longer, perhaps the entire liturgy.

If you have problems with incense, take your appropriate meds. It may range from trivially light to cut-it-with-a-knife thick clouds.

Communion is from a spoon. Step way forward, stating your name if the priest didn’t ask earlier, then tilt the head back, open wide, keep the tongue down, say nothing.

Thank you for spending your time reading this. May the Peace of Christ be with you always!

And with you!

 

[CDB1718]

1.) I was looking at the closest Byzantine Church to my house and it says "Daily Liturgy: 9:00, Sunday Liturgy: 10:00. Will the daily Liturgy be different from the Sunday Liturgy? Will there be some sort of a missal inside to help guide a newcomer?

The main difference they’re trying to convey is that it is at 9 in the morning during the week, but 10 in the morning on Sunday. In some parishes, there might be a liturgical difference as well. You have to go to find out. I recommend going on a Sunday first unless that’s a burden to you in which case you go when you can.

3.) I am interested in many of the fasts and they seem rigorous which really appeals to me. Can you explain the nature of these fasts and the duration? I see the dormition fast is coming up and I want to participate in it.

The externals are easy to control, so many people start out wanting to maintain strict fasts, but they don’t have a depth of prayer and experience to make those fasts spiritually beneficial. It gives a feeling of excitement and mastery to read all the classics, wear a prayer rope, and keep strict fasts. Then they burn out after a couple years and have to start over. Starting over is so daunting that it isn’t uncommon for them to reject Eastern Catholicism at that point instead of starting back at the beginning and laying a healthy foundation.

If you want to participate in the fasts, the most important thing is to be humble and submit yourself to the guidance of a confessor or spiritual director who will give you a fasting discipline to maintain. Most at your stage will pridefully think the discipline is beneath their abilities. Obey the confessor in humility by not going beyond his guidance and the extra zeal will be able to be put to a strengthening of your prayer life, liturgical experience, and spiritual readings so you can grow into the fast over the years. That’s a real fast you should be striving for. If you aren’t ready for that, accept it and drop the idea completely.

4.) Anything else I should know before going?

Everything you do should be about converting your heart. Don’t worry about the externals as they’ll flow from experience and grace.

 

[babochka]

Depends where you go and what jurisdiction the parish belongs to…I have never been to a Ukrainian Catholic Liturgy on a weekday that was sung…always recited and no incense, and VERY abbreviated. Usually finished in about 30 min give or take.

Wow, I didn’t know that. I guess my experience is pretty limited. I didn’t know that a Divine Liturgy could be spoken. I honestly can’t imagine how a Divine Liturgy could be completed in 30 minutes or how it would even be if spoken. I hope to never find out.

 

[rciadan]

Wow, I didn’t know that. I guess my experience is pretty limited. I didn’t know that a Divine Liturgy could be spoken. I honestly can’t imagine how a Divine Liturgy could be completed in 30 minutes or how it would even be if spoken. I hope to never find out.

At my parish, on Sunday the DL is about 1.5 to 2 hours long, depending if there is a panachida or metavania (I am surely not spelling that correctly). Also, we pray the third hour before the Liturgy. Typically we are in church from 10am till about 12:15 or 12:30. But it goes by so fast and is so awesomely intense that you have no idea that the time has passed!
During the week, usually on Saturday because our pastor is not present during the work week, the liturgy is more like 45 minutes to 1 hour.
Moleben on Friday is usually only about 15 to 30 minutes, but that is not a Divine Liturgy.

 

[Aramis]

We also pray third hour prior to liturgy, but I don’t count that in the time.

 

[5Loaves]

3.) I am interested in many of the fasts and they seem rigorous which really appeals to me. Can you explain the nature of these fasts and the duration? I see the dormition fast is coming up and I want to participate in it.

I think +Fr Alexander Schmemann has an excellent teaching of fasting, in his book Great Lent, Journey to Pascha It begins on page 50. Just click on the > to enter the book and then click on “The Two Meanings of Fasting” in the table of contents.

It’s highly likely there will be several people on Ancient Faith Radio doing podcasts on fasting and the Dormition Fast closer to the time. I would look for Archimandrite Irenei for one of those. He’s an excellent teacher.

 

[rciadan]

We also pray third hour prior to liturgy, but I don’t count that in the time.

The 1.5 to 2 hrs I quoted does not include third hour. It is just the Liturgy and the panachida or metavania. We always have one or the other. Byzantines pray for the dead more than any Latin Parish I was ever at.

 

[babochka]

The 1.5 to 2 hrs I quoted does not include third hour. It is just the Liturgy and the panachida or metavania. We always have one or the other. Byzantines pray for the dead more than any Latin Parish I was ever at.

So the panachida takes 20 -30 minutes or so. I’m not sure what metavania is, so I don’t know how long it lasts. Maybe I know it by a different name? Your typical Sunday Divine Liturgy lasts from about 70 to 100 minutes then. And your weekday (Saturday) liturgy lasts 45 minutes to an hour? What is missing from the Saturday Divine Liturgy that is present on Sunday that accounts for so much time? Maybe you can omit a litany or two, but those really don’t take up much time. I can understand if the liturgy is spoken (ouch!), but if it is sung, what accounts for that much time difference?

 

[CDB1718]

So the panachida takes 20 -30 minutes or so. I’m not sure what metavania is, so I don’t know how long it lasts. Maybe I know it by a different name? Your typical Sunday Divine Liturgy lasts from about 70 to 100 minutes then. And your weekday (Saturday) liturgy lasts 45 minutes to an hour? What is missing from the Saturday Divine Liturgy that is present on Sunday that accounts for so much time?

Mirovanije. A festal blessing with an anointing and blessed bread dipped in wine. It’s usually given after Vespers on the feast’s vigil. Panichydas are memorial prayers for the dead usually held on Saturday or a non-festal weekday.

In smaller parishes where people drive farther, many of the parish’s activities are moved to Sunday to allow the faithful to participate. You might find 3rd Hour, Confessions, Liturgy, panachyda, lunch, and a catechetical session on the same day. In large parishes, you might find back-to-back liturgies with everything else spread out through the week. It just depends on the parish.

 

[UncleBill]

The 1.5 to 2 hrs I quoted does not include third hour. It is just the Liturgy and the panachida or metavania. We always have one or the other. Byzantines pray for the dead more than any Latin Parish I was ever at.

Panachida on a Sunday? Not good

 

[babochka]

Mirovanije. A festal blessing with an anointing and blessed bread dipped in wine. It’s usually given after Vespers on the feast’s vigil.

Ok, ok. I know what that is. Thanks for clarifying.

In smaller parishes where people drive farther, many of the parish’s activities are moved to Sunday to allow the faithful to participate. You might find 3rd Hour, Confessions, Liturgy, panachyda, lunch, and a catechetical session on the same day.

We are one of those small parishes. We have few local parishioners and Sunday is our only opportunity to be together, and the way you describe it is frequently the way things are done. Sometimes we’ll even throw vespers into the mix as well, on important feasts. Usually we do Forgiveness Vespers and Kneeling Vespers on their respective Sundays, after lunch. ) It might not be technically liturgically correct, but it is a very pastoral practice that allows the faithful to participate more fully in the liturgical life of the Church.

 

[rciadan]

So the panachida takes 20 -30 minutes or so. I’m not sure what metavania is, so I don’t know how long it lasts. Maybe I know it by a different name? Your typical Sunday Divine Liturgy lasts from about 70 to 100 minutes then. And your weekday (Saturday) liturgy lasts 45 minutes to an hour? What is missing from the Saturday Divine Liturgy that is present on Sunday that accounts for so much time? Maybe you can omit a litany or two, but those really don’t take up much time. I can understand if the liturgy is spoken (ouch!), but if it is sung, what accounts for that much time difference?

I am not sure. I am still learning, but the Mirovanije, a festal blessing with an anointing and blessed bread or the panachida (one or the other) are almost always done just after the actual DL ends. Either one takes may 10 minutes and the total time is from 10:30 to about 12:15 - 12:30. (I am “guesstimating”) Now that you make me really think about it, it is about 2.25 to 2.5 hours, all inclusive, from 3rd hour through Mirovanije…

 

[rciadan]

Panachida on a Sunday? Not good

Why? We only have a priest available maybe Friday evening, Saturday morning, and Sunday, and very few parishioners come other than Sunday. I must say, I am one that usually misses Saturday because I have children and get caught up with different activities they are involved in.

 

[Peter_J]

4.) Anything else I should know before going?

That going to a Byzantine liturgy isn’t a big deal. Possibly you’ll come out thinking “How could I have ever lived without this?” … but it’s also alright if you come out thinking “Not my cup of tea.” At least you’ll have gone the one time.