Interested in living a modern day Eremitical way of life?

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Br_John_Marie

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Called to help in the salvation of souls through our prayers and little sacrafices.

We are a small new community of men and women hermits started by laity studing at the Angelicum and Gregorian universities in Rome during the Holy Year 2000.

While we are Carmelite at heart, our way of life closely resembles that of the Carthusians / Camaldolese. Our vision (and rule of life) is to live in seperate hermitages, the men on one side of the property and the women on the other.

We are devoted to our Blessed Mother, spend several hours a day in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, and are obedient to the Magesterium and the Holy Father. Presently, we are under a bishop in the Netherlands.

Please let us know if you would like to know a little more about us and our charism. Br John Marie
 
May I ask, how did this community go from being a lay community to becoming a religious community (are you a canonical religious order approved by Rome?)

How long did that process take and what was involved in that?

I am very interested in how new religious communities are formed.

The Lord bless you mightily!
 
May I ask, how did this community go from being a lay community to becoming a religious community (are you a canonical religious order approved by Rome?)

How long did that process take and what was involved in that?

I am very interested in how new religious communities are formed.

The Lord bless you mightily!
If I’m reading Brother’s post correctly, he is not saying that they are a religious community. He is saying that they are an emerging community under one of the bishops in the Netherlands.

Usually this is the way that a community begings. You begin as a private association of the faithful (you can have priets or not). When the bishop recognizes you publicly, you then become a public association of the faithful. An good example of this are the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word. •

**Our community is a canonically recognized Public Clerical Association of the Faithful in the Diocese of Birmingham in Alabama, ** franciscanmissionaries.com/about_us.html

A public association can make public vows, if the bishop grants them permission. They can have ordained members, with the bishop’s permission, such as the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word do.

After the community grows and proves that it can be independent the bishop can elevate it to a diocesan congregation. The bishop must submit their constitutions to the Sacred Congregation for Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life and they must approve of them. But the congregation remains under the jurisdiction of the local bishop. Thousands of congregations around the world are diocesan. The Franciscan Friars of the Renewal are a diocesan congregation. Diocesan does not mean that they are diocesan priests or brothers. They are religious, but they are under the canonical authority of a bishop instead of the Holy See.

Legally the bishop is the superior general, though the community may elect it’s own major superior who answers to the bishop. The bishop may authorize the congregation to travel outside of his diocese and establish houses in other dioceses as long as those bishops give them permission to enter their territory, just as they do for any other religious community.

If a congregation grows large enough and can support itself, the bishop can petition the Holy See to elevate them to a religious institute of Pontifical Right. These are the communities that you may be thinking about when you asked about being approved by Rome. There are not many communities of Pontifical Right, but they do number in the hundreds.

The Church rarely grants the status of religious order to religious communities. This is a very distinct status with certain privileges. Almost all religious communities are congregations, not religious orders. There are very few religious orders.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
If I’m reading Brother’s post correctly, he is not saying that they are a religious community. He is saying that they are an emerging community under one of the bishops in the Netherlands.

Usually this is the way that a community begings. You begin as a private association of the faithful (you can have priets or not). When the bishop recognizes you publicly, you then become a public association of the faithful. An good example of this are the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word. •

**Our community is a canonically recognized Public Clerical Association of the Faithful in the Diocese of Birmingham in Alabama, ** franciscanmissionaries.com/about_us.html

A public association can make public vows, if the bishop grants them permission. They can have ordained members, with the bishop’s permission, such as the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word do.

After the community grows and proves that it can be independent the bishop can elevate it to a diocesan congregation. The bishop must submit their constitutions to the Sacred Congregation for Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life and they must approve of them. But the congregation remains under the jurisdiction of the local bishop. Thousands of congregations around the world are diocesan. The Franciscan Friars of the Renewal are a diocesan congregation. Diocesan does not mean that they are diocesan priests or brothers. They are religious, but they are under the canonical authority of a bishop instead of the Holy See.

Legally the bishop is the superior general, though the community may elect it’s own major superior who answers to the bishop. The bishop may authorize the congregation to travel outside of his diocese and establish houses in other dioceses as long as those bishops give them permission to enter their territory, just as they do for any other religious community.

If a congregation grows large enough and can support itself, the bishop can petition the Holy See to elevate them to a religious institute of Pontifical Right. These are the communities that you may be thinking about when you asked about being approved by Rome. There are not many communities of Pontifical Right, but they do number in the hundreds.

The Church rarely grants the status of religious order to religious communities. This is a very distinct status with certain privileges. Almost all religious communities are congregations, not religious orders. There are very few religious orders.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
thank you very much for this detailed information. I am wondering how hard it is to move from each of thee stages to the next. How difficult is it to start a private association of the faithful? Do you need permission to do this at all? Thanks again.
 
thank you very much for this detailed information. I am wondering how hard it is to move from each of thee stages to the next. How difficult is it to start a private association of the faithful? Do you need permission to do this at all? Thanks again.
Canon law allows the faithful to establish private associations. However, if you want to do ministry in a diocese under that name, then you have to become a public association. Only the local bishop can acknowledge you as a public association. This is done by a letter that he writes for the association. There are many kinds of public associations. Not all of them are religious communities or societies of priests. The Legion of Mary is a public association of the faithful. The Maryknolls are a clerical association of the faithful, obviously public, because they function within the Church withher blessing, but they are not male religious. They are secular priests.

You asked how hard it is to move from each of these stages to the next. They are not really stages. They are what we call a canonical status. Each canonical status brings with it some obligations and some privileges. That’s why most religious communities never become Canonical Congregations of Pontifical Right. They are not interested in asking for this, because they do not need to be submitted to the Holy Father to live their religious life. As long as they have a bishop who gives them canonical approval, that’s enough to make them a religious community. These men or woman just want to live the religiuos life. They are not really interested in the privileges that come with Pontifical Right. Usually the bishop may feel that a community deserves these priveleges and submits the name of the congregation to Holy See for Pontifical status. Of course this has certain privileges. One of them is that the community just needs a bishop’s permission to enter his diocese. Once they have that permission, they can begin their ministry or create their institutions without having to answer to the bishop. The bishop cannot suppress them once he gives them permission to erect a community in his diocese. The bishop has to go to Rome to get Rome to ask the religious community to leave his dioceses. The bishop can forbid them to enter any parish or institution that belongs to the diocese. But he cannot forbid that they run their own.

Another privilege that comes from being a Pontifical community is that the Church frees you from accountability to the laity. In other words, the laity cannot make claims to the religious community, a secular order or a society that has Pontifical Right. This has created many problems today, because most lay people do not know about Pontifical Right. This was very well understood once-upon-a-time when the Church was smaller and people had constant contact with bishops and even with Rome.

Today, we have less direct contact with bishops and the Pope. Most lay people do not know that they do not have a legal right to ask religious for accountability to them. So, people demand accountability in different situations. When they get no response, they get angry.

I’ll give you an example. People are still seathing over Fr. Jenkins, Notre Dame and President Obama. The truth is that Fr. Jenkins belongs to the Brothers of the Holy Cross. The Brothers are a congregation of Pontifical Right. Only the pope can ask them for an explanatioin. The bishops cannot ask, the laity cannot ask, the cardinals cannot ask. I guess everyone can ask. They don’t have to respond. That’s what I’m trying to say. They are protected by the Pope. Unless the Pope says that Fr. Jenkins has to explain, he does not have to do so. We may argue that he should do so out of kindness, but we can’t force him. The Church protects him. This was done to avoid having lay people dictating to religiuos how to live or how to do ministry. It was also important because many wealthy families tried to control religious. Others wanted to tell religious orders who to accept. While the Church has always encouraged the apostolate of the laity, she has always wanted to keep the laity at arms length from her religious. In a certain sense, it does protect the religious life from outside influences. Unfortunately, many religious have not taken advantage of that privilege and have gone looking for outside influences to bring into the religious life.

Along with privileges, there are also restrictions. A religious who belongs to a religious community of Pontifical Right cannot leave without a dispensation from the Holy See. No bishop, no major superior, and no Congregation in Rome can grant the dispensation unless the Holy Father delegates that authority. This has been done. Sometimes there are too many requests for the pope to handle. The Holy Father delegates this authority to a Prefect. But he can take it back whenever he wants to do so. That’s one restriction. Another restriction, if you can call it that, is that a pope can call any institute of Pontifical Right to serve anywhere in the world. This is not the case with the diocesan congregations. The diocesan congregations are for the service of a diocese, even though they are religious. A bishop can send some to another diocese of that bishop will accept them. But the Holy Father will not call diocesan religoius to abandon their home diocese to serve someplace else. That would be unfair to the diocese that founded the congregation.

I hope this helps everyone understand what it means to be of Pontifical Right.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Canon law allows the faithful to establish private associations. However, if you want to do ministry in a diocese under that name, then you have to become a public association. Only the local bishop can acknowledge you as a public association. This is done by a letter that he writes for the association. There are many kinds of public associations. Not all of them are religious communities or societies of priests. The Legion of Mary is a public association of the faithful. The Maryknolls are a clerical association of the faithful, obviously public, because they function within the Church withher blessing, but they are not male religious. They are secular priests.

You asked how hard it is to move from each of these stages to the next. They are not really stages. They are what we call a canonical status. Each canonical status brings with it some obligations and some privileges. That’s why most religious communities never become Canonical Congregations of Pontifical Right. They are not interested in asking for this, because they do not need to be submitted to the Holy Father to live their religious life. As long as they have a bishop who gives them canonical approval, that’s enough to make them a religious community. These men or woman just want to live the religiuos life. They are not really interested in the privileges that come with Pontifical Right. Usually the bishop may feel that a community deserves these priveleges and submits the name of the congregation to Holy See for Pontifical status. Of course this has certain privileges. One of them is that the community just needs a bishop’s permission to enter his diocese. Once they have that permission, they can begin their ministry or create their institutions without having to answer to the bishop. The bishop cannot suppress them once he gives them permission to erect a community in his diocese. The bishop has to go to Rome to get Rome to ask the religious community to leave his dioceses. The bishop can forbid them to enter any parish or institution that belongs to the diocese. But he cannot forbid that they run their own.

Another privilege that comes from being a Pontifical community is that the Church frees you from accountability to the laity. In other words, the laity cannot make claims to the religious community, a secular order or a society that has Pontifical Right. This has created many problems today, because most lay people do not know about Pontifical Right. This was very well understood once-upon-a-time when the Church was smaller and people had constant contact with bishops and even with Rome.

Today, we have less direct contact with bishops and the Pope. Most lay people do not know that they do not have a legal right to ask religious for accountability to them. So, people demand accountability in different situations. When they get no response, they get angry.

I’ll give you an example. People are still seathing over Fr. Jenkins, Notre Dame and President Obama. The truth is that Fr. Jenkins belongs to the Brothers of the Holy Cross. The Brothers are a congregation of Pontifical Right. Only the pope can ask them for an explanatioin. The bishops cannot ask, the laity cannot ask, the cardinals cannot ask. I guess everyone can ask. They don’t have to respond. That’s what I’m trying to say. They are protected by the Pope. Unless the Pope says that Fr. Jenkins has to explain, he does not have to do so. We may argue that he should do so out of kindness, but we can’t force him. The Church protects him. This was done to avoid having lay people dictating to religiuos how to live or how to do ministry. It was also important because many wealthy families tried to control religious. Others wanted to tell religious orders who to accept. While the Church has always encouraged the apostolate of the laity, she has always wanted to keep the laity at arms length from her religious. In a certain sense, it does protect the religious life from outside influences. Unfortunately, many religious have not taken advantage of that privilege and have gone looking for outside influences to bring into the religious life.

Along with privileges, there are also restrictions. A religious who belongs to a religious community of Pontifical Right cannot leave without a dispensation from the Holy See. No bishop, no major superior, and no Congregation in Rome can grant the dispensation unless the Holy Father delegates that authority. This has been done. Sometimes there are too many requests for the pope to handle. The Holy Father delegates this authority to a Prefect. But he can take it back whenever he wants to do so. That’s one restriction. Another restriction, if you can call it that, is that a pope can call any institute of Pontifical Right to serve anywhere in the world. This is not the case with the diocesan congregations. The diocesan congregations are for the service of a diocese, even though they are religious. A bishop can send some to another diocese of that bishop will accept them. But the Holy Father will not call diocesan religoius to abandon their home diocese to serve someplace else. That would be unfair to the diocese that founded the congregation.

I hope this helps everyone understand what it means to be of Pontifical Right.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
you are awesome, thank you. I think that you should write a book on all of this. by the way, I was wondering if you would start a thread on the subject of the stages of formation like postulancy, novitiate and the like. I have some questions and want to understand what happens in these stages in more detail.

The Lord Jesus bless you with His abundant peace Brother.
 
you are awesome, thank you. I think that you should write a book on all of this. by the way, I was wondering if you would start a thread on the subject of the stages of formation like postulancy, novitiate and the like. I have some questions and want to understand what happens in these stages in more detail.

The Lord Jesus bless you with His abundant peace Brother.
I’ll tell you what, just for you I’ll do that this weekend. However, if you’re a guy, I want you to think about joining the Franciscan Brothers of Life and if you’re a gal, the Sisters of Life.

www.franciscansoflife.org

www.sistersoflife.org

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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