Interesting addition to the ligurgical routine

[DaveBj]

I went to Mass at a parish in my home town today (we had our 45th high school reunion yesterday), and I saw something interesting. Before the “Lavabo”, the priest received a squirt of hand sanitizer from one of the altar servers. Likewise, when the EMsHC came up into the santuary, they all went to the little table where the squirt bottle of sanitizer was and took a squirt for themselves.

Hmm, wonder how long it’s going to be before this gets written into the rubrics

DaveBj

 

[Sr_Sally]

That actually sounds like a very good practice–especially if the priest was perhaps not feeling well. As for the EMHC, considering that they have been handling the missals, giving the sign of peace, etc, it’s not a bad practice for them either. Do you know if your hometown/diocese had any cases of the recent swine flu?

 

[JimG]

As a preventive measure against germs, I doubt that it has any beneficial effect whatsoever. It might be more useful if they just washed their unders under a faucet before coming up to serve as EHMC’s.

 

[uxordepp]

We had a discussion about this at our chapel some time back. Although I’m no longer on the committee, I notice hand sanitizer has not yet made it into the sanctuary.

EMHCs should certainly wash their hands (or sanitize them) before distributing communion, but as it is not part of the rubrics, it should be done out of sight of the congregation. We talked about having them sanitize at the back of the church before they came up to the sanctuary or to step behind the sanctuary and come back out after sanitizing.

The lavabo is not a good time for the priest to use sanitizer. It could distort the meaning of the symbol which is and expression of the the desire for INTERNAL cleansing

IN our chapel, the priest blesses children and non-recipients of Communion by placing his hand on their heads (oh, and holds hands with kids during the Our Father :-() so sanitation is kind of a moot point anyway.

 

[FickleFreckled]

Everyone distributing Communion uses hand sanitizer in three of the four parishes I’ve attended for the past several years. I haven’t noticed it at the Cathedral, but it may just be done out of sight from where I am. We’ve had swine flu cases - closed the school district in fact - but this preceded that. People are just becoming more conscious and fearful of the potential for infection. It’s possible that it’s done in full view to reassure people. Sad, but reality.

 

[puzzleannie]

mandated here during the flu epidemic which is still going strong, at least all the ministers are required to clean their hands when the priest does, and they are probably doing this extra step in public so people see it and it eases their concerns.

 

[Phemie]

We’ve just been through this with our EMHCs who claimed that the reason people are changing communion lines is because “Fr. washes his hands and we don’t”. A crock, really, people change lines because they don’t want to receive from an EMHC, period.

Besides, Fr. does a symbolic ritual that doesn’t clean anything and then shakes hands with 6 altar servers and 3 EMHCs, how clean are his hands then?

Now the EMHC who will be distributing the Host uses sanitizer in the sanctuary right after the Sign of Peace. Yes, contrary to RS, they come to the sanctuary before the Our Father and are given Communion before Fr. receives and then they all (servers & EMHCs) consume together.

 

[DaveBj]

That actually sounds like a very good practice–especially if the priest was perhaps not feeling well. As for the EMHC, considering that they have been handling the missals, giving the sign of peace, etc, it’s not a bad practice for them either. Do you know if your hometown/diocese had any cases of the recent swine flu?

If anyone here has had that flu, I am unaware of it. I get daily email editions of the hometown newspaper, and I haven’t seen any mention. Nor have there been any cases in my current home (Cullman AL). They do not do the hand sanitizer thing there. I’m going to mention it to Fr. Kevin; he’ll probably be amused.

Parish was St. Thomas the Apostle in Elkhart, Indiana; Miss Bonnie used to drag me there for Christmas Mass when we were home for the holidays. Modern church, but I didn’t really see anything untoward today in the liturgy. Just the usual scattered hand-holding and hand-raising during the Our Father and the doxology.

DaveBj

 

[CatholicCid]

If I recall, that area did have at least 1 case of the swine flu, actually. I remember they mentioned a Notre Dame student had it before their graduations.

 

[CatholicCid]

If anyone here has had that flu, I am unaware of it. I get daily email editions of the hometown newspaper, and I haven’t seen any mention. Nor have there been any cases in my current home (Cullman AL). They do not do the hand sanitizer thing there. I’m going to mention it to Fr. Kevin; he’ll probably be amused.

Parish was St. Thomas the Apostle in Elkhart, Indiana; Miss Bonnie used to drag me there for Christmas Mass when we were home for the holidays. Modern church, but I didn’t really see anything untoward today in the liturgy. Just the usual scattered hand-holding and hand-raising during the Our Father and the doxology.

DaveBj

Actually, I believe the area did have at least 1 case of swine flu. It was at or near Notre Dame, remembering the case being mentioned prior to their graduations when the area was receiving a lot of coverage.

The two are within the same Diocese, I believe.

 

[Spirithound]

Alcohol-based hand sanitizer replaced water for the EMHC in my parishes long ago. Haven’t seen Father use it though.

 

[OhMalley]

**As a preventive measure against germs, I doubt that it has any beneficial effect whatsoever. ** It might be more useful if they just washed their unders under a faucet before coming up to serve as EHMC’s.

What makes you say that?

“Community-based epidemiologic studies have shown beneficial effects of hand sanitizers. Hand sanitizers were effective in reducing gastrointestinal illnesses in households (1), in curbing absentee rates in elementary schools (2), and in reducing illnesses in university dormitories (3). An Internet search retrieved recommendations for hand hygiene from schools, daycare centers, outdoor guides, and animal shelters…”

cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no03/05-0955.htm

 

[Don9of11]

I think any effort to clean your hands before distributing communion is a good practice. Our priest and deacon use it. I keep the stuff in my car and office work desk and after mass is over and I get in my car I use it. Missalette’'s like grocery carts are pretty dirty and you don’t know who has been handling them. It shouldn’t be used as a substitute for soap and water, but it does the job until you can get to soap and water.

 

[JimG]

What makes you say that?

“Community-based epidemiologic studies have shown beneficial effects of hand sanitizers. Hand sanitizers were effective in reducing gastrointestinal illnesses in households (1), in curbing absentee rates in elementary schools (2), and in reducing illnesses in university dormitories (3). An Internet search retrieved recommendations for hand hygiene from schools, daycare centers, outdoor guides, and animal shelters…”

cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no03/05-0955.htm

Hand sanitizers may be partially effective, provided you are using the right product with the right concentration of ingredients. There is this from the article you linked:

Some products marketed to the public as antimicrobial hand sanitizers are not effective in reducing bacterial counts on hands. In the course of a classroom demonstration of the comparative efficacy of hospital-grade antimicrobial soap and alcohol-based sanitizers, a product with 40% ethanol as the active ingredient was purchased at a retail discount store. Despite a label claim of reducing “germs and harmful bacteria” by 99.9%, we observed an apparent increase in the concentration of bacteria in handprints impressed on agar plates after cleansing. None of the other hand cleaners showed such an effect. Of course many products are more effecte. Effectiveness is increased if the hands are rinsed in running water after using the hand sanitizer; otherwise, any bacteria not killed are simply moved around on the hands.

 

[DaveBj]

Actually, I believe the area did have at least 1 case of swine flu. It was at or near Notre Dame, remembering the case being mentioned prior to their graduations when the area was receiving a lot of coverage.

The two are within the same Diocese, I believe.

Same diocese, separated by 20 miles or so. It would be interesting to see if there have actually been diocesan instructions about this. Anyone from northern Indiana know?

(BTW, I’m home now; 600 miles in 10 or so hours.)

DaveBj

 

[CatholicCid]

A quick search engine check turned up a statement from the same Diocese on their website.

We have received communication from the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Divine Worship related to participation at Masses at this time of the swine influenza outbreak. In the course of a conference call with the Vicars Forane, officers of the Presbyteral Council, and other diocesan leaders, recommendations were made, and Bishop D’Arcy asks that these be implemented immediately…
…
3. Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are asked to wash their hands before Mass begins and use a sanitizing cloth before communion distribution. They are reminded to wash their hands after Mass also.

diocesefwsb.org/swineFLU43009.pdf

 

[OhMalley]

Hand sanitizers may be partially effective, provided you are using the right product with the right concentration of ingredients. There is this from the article you linked:

Some products marketed to the public as antimicrobial hand sanitizers are not effective in reducing bacterial counts on hands. In the course of a classroom demonstration of the comparative efficacy of hospital-grade antimicrobial soap and alcohol-based sanitizers, a product with 40% ethanol as the active ingredient was purchased at a retail discount store. Despite a label claim of reducing “germs and harmful bacteria” by 99.9%, we observed an apparent increase in the concentration of bacteria in handprints impressed on agar plates after cleansing. None of the other hand cleaners showed such an effect. Of course many products are more effecte. Effectiveness is increased if the hands are rinsed in running water after using the hand sanitizer; otherwise, any bacteria not killed are simply moved around on the hands.

Yet you said:

As a preventive measure against germs, I doubt that it has any beneficial effect whatsoever. It might be more useful if they just washed their unders under a faucet before coming up to serve as EHMC’s.

Why? Is it because you don’t like the use of the sanitizer?

 

[JimG]

Yet you said:

Why? Is it because you don’t like the use of the sanitizer?

I don’t mind if people use them. But I do think that normal cleanliness and the washing of hands is more reliable. I doubt that a simple alcohol soaked cloth used for a few seconds is going to have that much effect on the bacterial count on one’s hands. But that’s just me.

(In the past I’ve seen medical references to the fact that people may actually be keeping too clean(!) therey reducing the buildup of natural immunity to normally occurring bacteria. It has also become a problem with the overuse of antibiotics.)

 

[Evan]

I think it is a waste of time.

If we are to drink from the common cup, what use is the sanitation of hands that only handle the purificator and hold the cup?

If one distributes the body and touches the hand of a communicant (or the lips) then you are again ‘infected’.

It is an overreaction. If your immune system is that weakened, you should not be out in public.

 

[OhMalley]

I don’t mind if people use them. But I do think that normal cleanliness and the washing of hands is more reliable. I doubt that a simple alcohol soaked cloth used for a few seconds is going to have that much effect on the bacterial count on one’s hands. But that’s just me.

(In the past I’ve seen medical references to the fact that people may actually be keeping too clean(!) therey reducing the buildup of natural immunity to normally occurring bacteria. It has also become a problem with the overuse of antibiotics.)

Let’s look at this logically. First the use of hand sanitizer does not precluse either “normal cleanliness” or “the washing of hands” so that’s a non-issue except to say most who distribute communion cannot leave to wash their hands before doing so. I can on the other hand discreetly rub hand sanitizer on my hands while I walk towards the sanctuary.

I sure hope you are not equating the use of a Handi-wipe to an actual hand sanitizer.

As far as the bacteria. It’s true – the overuse of anti-bacterial soaps can be problematic but this too is a non-issue for this instance.