Interesting article on the EF mass in England and Wales

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I have found this very interesting piece on the EF mass in England and Wales.

reginamag.com/shades-of-evelyn-waugh-eye-opener-update-on-the-latin-mass-in-england/

It is all good news over there, according to the author. There are more EF masses available, and more and more priests are developing an interest in it. Just comparing the numbers from 2007 and today shows how things have improved.

Let’s pray that this trend continues in other countries as well. The editor of the magazine says that the autumn issue will look how things are going in the USA.

 

[TimothyH]

What a horrible article!

One of the founders of the Latin Mass Society of England and Whales believed that the Ordinary Form was invalid. From the article:

*Williamson was very disturbed by the theology of the New Mass and later wrote a pamphlet arguing that it was invalid. *

Joseph Shaw, who is intervewed in this article, seems to have not only a preference for the EF, which is fine, but a clear bias against the OF. Again from the article:

The aesthetics and emotionality of many Novus Ordo celebrations can be exquisitely painful, particularly to young men.

What was most painful was reading through the veiled and not so veiled disparagement of the ordinary form, calling it “jumping up and down” and such things.

-Tim-

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

What a horrible article!

Thank you for your contribution Tim. Perhaps some people will find value in the article even though you don’t like it. Shaw is obviously relating his experience. I certainly found the article very encouraging, especially the part about the growing number of priests who want to say the EF mass. I’m all for that.

 

[Boulder257]

Sorry, but I don’t find it “encouraging” when it pits one form of the Mass against another form. I too found the article to be quite awful. Not to mention the statistics are spurrious correlations that they attribute solely to the Latin Mass. It’s just unnecessary at best and damaging at worst.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Fair enough

 

[Megan7]

I have found this very interesting piece on the EF mass in England and Wales.

reginamag.com/shades-of-evelyn-waugh-eye-opener-update-on-the-latin-mass-in-england/

It is all good news over there, according to the author. There are more EF masses available, and more and more priests are developing an interest in it. Just comparing the numbers from 2007 and today shows how things have improved.

Let’s pray that this trend continues in other countries as well. The editor of the magazine says that the autumn issue will look how things are going in the USA.

Thanks for the link, I read it later on.

 

[floresco]

What a horrible article!

One of the founders of the Latin Mass Society of England and Whales believed that the Ordinary Form was invalid.

That jumped out at me too. I was surprised because there is nothing like that, as far as I am aware, in the Latin Mass Society today. On the contrary, the great strength of the LMS is that it promotes the EF while remaining loyal to the Magisterium. I cannot imagine a prominent member of the LMS publicly questioning the validity of the OF.

I was quite encouraged to see how God had used such an inauspicious beginning to bring the LMS to where it is today. For me, it was one of the highlights of the article.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

That jumped out at me too. I was surprised because there is nothing like that, as far as I am aware, in the Latin Mass Society today. On the contrary, the great strength of the LMS is that it promotes the EF while remaining loyal to the Magisterium. I cannot imagine a prominent member of the LMS publicly questioning the validity of the OF.

I agree with this. The LMS does not hold any questionable views about the NO mass. I suspect that there was confusion after the change and people did not know what to make of it, and some assumed the worst.

 

[floresco]

Sorry, but I don’t find it “encouraging” when it pits one form of the Mass against another form. I too found the article to be quite awful. Not to mention the statistics are spurrious correlations that they attribute solely to the Latin Mass. It’s just unnecessary at best and damaging at worst.

Could you explain why you think it was pitting one form of Mass against the other? I did not notice that. I don’t understand your comment about spurious correlations either. My overall impression was that a group dedicated to promoting the EF was happy with its success. The EF is far more widely available now.

 

[rben20]

I’m all for the EF but the article makes some bogus claims other than showing the increased interest in the form which I do not doubt (the numbers are there). But come on…more people attend confession frequently because of the EF spirituality? I attend confession frequently but it’s becuase I know I’m a sinner who sins…a lot.

 

[johnnyc176]

I have found this very interesting piece on the EF mass in England and Wales.

reginamag.com/shades-of-evelyn-waugh-eye-opener-update-on-the-latin-mass-in-england/

It is all good news over there, according to the author. There are more EF masses available, and more and more priests are developing an interest in it. Just comparing the numbers from 2007 and today shows how things have improved.

Let’s pray that this trend continues in other countries as well. The editor of the magazine says that the autumn issue will look how things are going in the USA.

Thanks for sharing. Great article…that is good news. I just recently came across an article that may give a heads up as far as the USA is concerned…well at least one parish anyway…

ncregister.com/daily-news/bible-belt-parish-builds-gods-kingdom/

I think in general the south east is seeing more TLMs available. It will be interesting to read the autumn issue.

 

[floresco]

I’m all for the EF but the article makes some bogus claims other than showing the increased interest in the form which I do not doubt (the numbers are there). But come on…more people attend confession frequently because of the EF spirituality? I attend confession frequently but it’s becuase I know I’m a sinner who sins…a lot.

Are you questioning the claim that “EF-goers seem to go to confession more than the average Catholic”? That has always been my impression. Why do you think this is not true?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’m all for the EF but the article makes some bogus claims other than showing the increased interest in the form which I do not doubt (the numbers are there). But come on…more people attend confession frequently because of the EF spirituality? I attend confession frequently but it’s becuase I know I’m a sinner who sins…a lot.

In my experience, those priests who do celebrate the EF mass, especially the FSSP priests, are not afraid to talk about sin. They talk about hell too. I have seen in my own previous FSSP parish that people went to confession frequently. For that reason I believe there is a correlation and it is not bogus. Perhaps you have misunderstood that the connection is between the EF ‘spirituality’ which somehow inspires people to go to confession more often. I don’t think that is what the article was saying.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

ncregister.com/daily-news/bible-belt-parish-builds-gods-kingdom/

I’m glad you liked it, and thanks for the link. I am so glad that the use of EF mass is slowly spreading.

 

[Boulder257]

Could you explain why you think it was pitting one form of Mass against the other? I did not notice that. I don’t understand your comment about spurious correlations either. My overall impression was that a group dedicated to promoting the EF was happy with its success. The EF is far more widely available now.

Sure. The comments where they mentioned the priest writing the brochure that the NO was invalid led me to the conclusion that some were pitting the two against one another. Furthermore, the article makes the implication…well, not even an implication, they make the outright claim that people are leaving the Church because of the NO and coming back because of the TLM. That is pitting one against the other.

As for the spurrious correlation I don’t think that the drop in Church visitation is related to the NO while the TLM is somehow thriving by ltself. Someone would have to prove to me that those who are leaving are doing so because of the NO and nobody has done that. Instead, they say that people are leaving. Well, people are leaving all organized religion alltogether today it seems. I don’t see any evidence that a reasonable statistician would use to correlate the fact that the NO pushed people away from the Church and the TLM brought them back. To me its an uneducated and irresponsible use of statistics.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I don’t see any evidence that a reasonable statistician would use to correlate the fact that the NO pushed people away from the Church and the TLM brought them back.

You mean this part: I know a number of young men who lapsed and came back for the TLM, or could have lapsed were it not for the TLM.

I don’t see the interviewee saying that these men left because of the NO. They left for whatever reason, as is unfortunately common today. But he claims that he knows men who came back because the TLM and I believe this is a different thing. Some things work like a magnet and bring people back. Just because a person came back to the church via the TLM does not imply that they left because of the NO. And it seems that you interpreting his words in this way.

 

[floresco]

Sure. The comments where they mentioned the priest writing the brochure that the NO was invalid led me to the conclusion that some were pitting the two against one another. Furthermore, the article makes the implication…well, not even an implication, they make the outright claim that people are leaving the Church because of the NO and coming back because of the TLM. That is pitting one against the other.

In giving the historical background of the Latin Mass Society, that article mentions that one of the founders (not a priest, as far as I know) wrote a brochure about the OF being invalid. Since that is not the position of the LMS, that is a point of historical interest, not pitting the forms against each other.

I saw no claim that people are leaving because of the OF. The person interviewed mentions knowing some people who find the EF more attractive than the OF. I daresay there are also some people who find the OF more attractive than the EF. Is it really pitting one form against the other to mention that people have different preferences? Or is it showing why it is such a good idea to have two forms available?

As for the spurrious correlation I don’t think that the drop in Church visitation is related to the NO while the TLM is somehow thriving by ltself. Someone would have to prove to me that those who are leaving are doing so because of the NO and nobody has done that. Instead, they say that people are leaving. Well, people are leaving all organized religion alltogether today it seems. I don’t see any evidence that a reasonable statistician would use to correlate the fact that the NO pushed people away from the Church and the TLM brought them back. To me its an uneducated and irresponsible use of statistics.

The person interviewed said that he knew some people left the Church while attending the OF who were attracted back to the Church by the EF. I am sure he was telling the truth. I know people like that too. I did not see him make any claims based on statistics.
I think you are misunderstanding the article.

 

[rben20]

In my experience, those priests who do celebrate the EF mass, especially the FSSP priests, are not afraid to talk about sin. They talk about hell too. I have seen in my own previous FSSP parish that people went to confession frequently. For that reason I believe there is a correlation and it is not bogus. Perhaps you have misunderstood that the connection is between the EF ‘spirituality’ which somehow inspires people to go to confession more often. I don’t think that is what the article was saying.

I wouldn’t attribute confession going to the Mass because it has a “wider truth” as the article claims. Both have the same truth. This article isn’t great and im kinda surprised the new liturgical movement website posted this.

 

[floresco]

I wouldn’t attribute confession going to the Mass because it has a “wider truth” as the article claims. Both have the same truth. This article isn’t great and im kinda surprised the new liturgical movement website posted this.

The article did not claim that the EF has a wider truth. It said that the increased participation in Confession by EF-attenders is connected to a wider truth.

This is an indication of a wider truth, that the TLM brings with it traditional spirituality, theology, preaching, and so on.

 

[ProVobis]

One of the founders of the Latin Mass Society of England and Whales believed that the Ordinary Form was invalid.

The LMS was founded in 1965, five years before the OF. I know for a fact they promote Latin in the liturgy as their name suggests, be it the EF or OF. (They were at SJC not too long ago and requested the bishop to say the Latin OF.) I think if Latin were to be promoted more in the OF, they wouldn’t have to resort to making any disparaging statements about the 1965 Missal, the 1970 Missal, or the 2001 Missal.