Interesting Brigham Young Quotes

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I have family and friends who are LDS. I frankly would be less vocal here if the LDS people here were not so rude
The lds people here are rude? Really? Look over your posts and see rudeness. My gosh Atticus/Tom, you have some rude posts under your screen name. Mormons constantly read threads from you and your friend answers that insult the mormon religion. You are here because you have an agenda of stirring the pot between mormons and catholics. And that is rude. A good catholic shows charity toward others and their faith. And a good catholic prays for the other.

We all need to do an examination of conscious on these mormon threads. 🙂
 
It appears Mormons are ashamed of these quotes…
I don’t think that they are ashamed at all. In fact, I have mentioned before that the discourses are in book form in many mormon homes. Mormons just see the sermons differently. I gave a good mormon explanation about the discourses that came right from the Ensign, the mormon church magazine. I also posted wonderful quotations by brigham young.

(Edited) Brigham Young was out and about among the mormons and he said many things. Some are strange but a lot are wonderful. He was a frontier man, leading the mormons after Joseph Smith was murdered. He main job was to establish the lds church in a new area of the country and establish a place where mormons could worship freely. Mormons from all over europe flocked to utah and established a home. That was Brigham’s main responsibility.

And so, mormons admire Brigham for the wonderful work that he did. And today, we have a lds church and its members who are helping to create wonderful communities for people to live in because their value structure is second to none. And mormons have also Brigham Young to thank for that among other church leaders and lds members.
 
well i know it was not baptist board… both diana and i tried to get on that one, and they dont like Catholics OR Mormons. i wont bash you why me. i like you too much.😉 peace 🙂
Yea, and that is the point. We should all go over to baptist boards and read the quotations from famous popes. 🙂 I am sure that they are using humdingers…or famous church fathers. What Atticus/Tom doesn’t realize is that all churches can be bashed and dragged through the mud. Why? because they are made up of people and people aren’t perfect.
 
If I had a choice of educating my daughters or my sons because of opportunity constraints, I would choose to educate my daughters.
Brigham Young

Wow, I agree with Tom. It seems that Brigham was ahead of his time on that quotation. 🙂
 
In fact, I have mentioned before that the discourses are in book form in many mormon homes. Mormons just see the sermons differently. I gave a good mormon explanation about the discourses that came right from the Ensign, the mormon church magazine.
I looked back through and was unable to find this explaination. You say that Mormons see these differently. I know it would be too much to ask you to respond to all, but if you do not mind, could you pick one that seems troubling and give a Mormon explaination?
 
I looked back through and was unable to find this explaination.
I’ve been reading the Journal of Discourses with a great deal of interest and pleasure, but I notice that they are not printed by the Church. Can you tell me how authoritative I should consider them to be?
Gerald E. Jones, director, LDS Institute of Religion, Many queries come from students concerning these twenty-six volumes first published in England between 1853 and 1886. The original intent of their publication was to provide income for George D. Watt, their stenographer and publisher. Many Church members in England desired to read the sermons delivered by the General Authorities of the Church in Utah, and Brother Watt’s books filled that need. He obtained clearance from the First Presidency 1 June 1853. Addressed to Elder Samuel Richards, missionary printer in England, and to “the Saints abroad” this statement introduced volume one:

“Dear Brethren—It is well known to many of you, that Elder George D. Watt, by our counsel, spent much time in the midst of poverty and hardships to acquire the art of reporting in Phonography [shorthand], which he has faithfully and fully accomplished; and he has been reporting the public Sermons, Discourses, Lectures delivered by the Presidency, the Twelve, and others in this city, for nearly two years, almost without fee or reward. Elder Watt now proposes to publish a Journal of these reports, in England, for the benefit of the Saints at large, and to obtain means to enable him to sustain his highly useful position of Reporter. You will perceive at once that this will be a work of mutual benefit, and we cheerfully and warmly request your cooperation in the purchase and sale of the above named Journal, and wish all the profits arising therefrom to be under the control of Elder Watt.” (Signed by Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, and Willard Richards.)
The first four volumes were reported by Elder Watt, but after that other reporters are included—one a sister, Julia Young. Brother Watt reported through volume twelve, when David W. Evans became the prime reporter. He was followed by George W. Gibbs, a secretary to the First Presidency.

In considering the reliability of the Journal of Discourses, we should remember certain circumstances.

Though the First Presidency endorsed the publication of the Journal, there was no endorsement as to the accuracy or reliability of the contents. There were occasions when the accuracy was questionable. The accounts were not always cleared by the speakers because of problems of time and distance. This was especially true during the persecution of the 1880s which finally forced the cessation of publication.

A major concern of the early Saints was physical survival. Sermons often dealt with the practical problems of the time and so may seem quaint in our day, even if much of the advice is still valid.

Doctrinally, members of the Church were growing and learning. Most adults were converts who had to unlearn and relearn many doctrines. They were learning things which our children learn in Primary and Sunday School. Remarks were frequently impromptu. Close, friendly audiences frequently invited informal discussion of varied topics. There was occasional speculation about doctrines which have since been determined unimportant or even misleading.

The general membership of the Church has progressed in knowledge of gospel principles, which is as it should be. In our organizations, we have been taught the gospel for more than one hundred years now. Because of modern revelation and because of “line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept” progression, we have answers that were not yet given when the Journal of Discourses was published.

We also should be aware of priorities in our studies. It seems to me that we should first become very familiar with the four books of Scripture accepted as standard works. The words of our current living prophet are also most valuable for us in our time. The official statements of the First Presidency are standards for doctrine and practice in the Church. We should be familiar with the manuals and courses of study provided for us in our day. For further inspiration and instruction by the General Authorities, we can study general conference addresses, beginning with the most current and moving back in time.

Even after digesting these materials, some persons may still have time and inclination to peruse the Journal of Discourses. We can be grateful that records of the early sermons were kept to help us understand the growth of the Church and the testimonies of our early leaders. If we find the time to read them, however, we should avoid getting caught up in their uniqueness and should concentrate on the inspiring thoughts and experiences related to us by choice men.

Having taught seminary and institute classes for more than twenty years, I have tried to follow my own advice. Because I also love to read, I have read the scriptures many times, all of the general conference reports, and finally, all volumes of the Journal of Discourses.
Frankly, one of the main reasons I read the Journal of Discourses was so I could answer students’ questions about them with some knowledge of what they were about. Though I enjoyed reading them, gained some new insights, and was inspired by the spirit of the early brethren, except for the needs of students, there was no practical benefit that I could not have obtained from current conference talks with less effort, much greater clarity and more economy.

For me, the most pertinent discussion of gospel doctrines and answers to life’s problems and source of spiritual inspiration in today’s world comes from the standard works and our living prophets.
library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1978.htm/ensign%20august%201978%20.htm/i%20have%20a%20question.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0
 
From why me or from the OP?
Notice what is in dark blue from my paste. These sermons are reported transcripts taken from shorthand and not the originals by BY. Also, there is other useful information about the discourses in bold blue.

Our friend, sirTom, would never include the disclaimer as found in dark blue. Why? You can be the judge of that. Nor would he mention the reported notetaking from people as Brigham talked. Why…you can also be the judge of that. 🙂

I don’t think that tom actually knew these facts.
 
Notice what is in dark blue from my paste. These sermons are reported transcripts taken from shorthand and not the originals by BY. Also, there is other useful information about the discourses in bold blue.
So these discourses may or may not be accurate? If this is the case, why are they considered of any importance? I am asking because I wonder if their importance is being exaggerated.
 
Greetings to you pnewton. Hope the holiday weekend is seeing you filled with rest, relaxation, happiness, and love.
I looked back through and was unable to find this explaination. You say that Mormons see these differently. I know it would be too much to ask you to respond to all, but if you do not mind, could you pick one that seems troubling and give a Mormon explaination?
I find this question a very honestly searching one not meant for contention. I will try to provide you with an answer. Before I do so, may I just point out to everyone that the Journal of Discourses is not LDS scripture.

“The Journal of Discourses is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is a compilation of sermons and other materials from the early years of the Church, which were transcribed and then published. It includes practical advice as well as doctrinal discussion, some of which is speculative in nature and some of which is only of historical interest. … Questions have been raised about the accuracy of some transcriptions. Modern technology and processes were not available for verifying the accuracy of transcriptions, and some significant mistakes have been documented. The Journal of Discourses includes interesting and insightful teachings by early Church leaders; however, by itself it is not an authoritative source of Church doctrine.” (you can find this statement in lds.org, the official website of the LDS Church)

So, I’ll pick one of the first ones Kdesiel commented on that is difficult for a non-LDS to understand because of a basic difference in doctrine:
“The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood–was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).

So if God has a body as a man does a body of Flesh and Bone, and the elements of Christs birth “was the result of natural action.” what does that imply about conception? I’m a father I know about all of the elements of conception of my children does this imply what I think it implies? If so how can Mary be a Virgin in the LDS Faith?
It does not imply what Kdeisel think it implies. The LDS doctrine believes that the spirit of man is not created at birth. This is a unique doctrine among Christians. The spirit of man was with our Heavenly Father before mortal existence. Our spirits come to earth and was given flesh and blood to become mortal (the natural man) from a combination of matter from a father and a mother. (Note that resurrected beings have flesh and bones but no mention of blood). Jesus Christ was given flesh and blood to become mortal from a combination of matter from Heavenly Father and Mary. This does not mean that Jesus was conceived through sexual intercourse.

Side comment not related to the quote but came to my mind: A friend of mine conceived through in-vitro fertilization. Coincidentally, she’s been married and has had sexual relations with her husband for several years before she determined she cannot conceive by “normal methods”. Now, I came to thinking, if that wasn’t the case - that is, if she was a virgin and conceived in-vitro - that would probably be as close to the Virgin Mary as one can get.
“I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

Ahh I see this quote answers my question above. If Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Ghost then how? Got it. As a member this was a point that always troubled me. If God the Father had a body of Flesh and Bones and Jesus came to be through “Natural Action” How could Mary be a virgin? This was always very troublesome to me.
I think it is common knowledge in this forum that the LDS Church do not hold to the Trinitarian concept of God. Therefore, Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. He was begotten of the Father through the power of the Holy Ghost.

I’m addressing these two just to illustrate that quite a number of the quotes in the Journal of Discourses supplement LDS doctrine which makes the book good reading for an LDS member just like the book Saint of the Day is good reading for a Catholic.

I don’t intend to address each and every one of the quotes. If a “sound byte” gives one enough reason to lambast a particular faith, addressing such in a discussion devoid of the Holy Spirit is not going to make anybody find the truth of anything. All it does is fuel the fire of contention and drive the Spirit even farther away.

This would be the same thing as a non-Catholic lambasting the Catholic Church because of the actions of Pope Urban VIII condemning Galileo of heresy for going against Church Doctrine in proclaiming that the earth revolves around the sun. Ah, the quotes we can all come up with just for that controversy!

But, alas, that is not the way of the Lord. We are instructed to love one another. It is nothing short of one of the greatest of commandments.

With love to you, pnewton, and to our brother in Christ, SirThomasMore.
 
This would be the same thing as a non-Catholic lambasting the Catholic Church because of the actions of Pope Urban VIII condemning Galileo of heresy for going against Church Doctrine in proclaiming that the earth revolves around the sun. Ah, the quotes we can all come up with just for that controversy!

But, alas, that is not the way of the Lord. We are instructed to love one another. It is nothing short of one of the greatest of commandments.

With love to you, pnewton, and to our brother in Christ, SirThomasMore.
Can’t say it doesn’t get humorous around here.
 
I don’t think that they are ashamed at all. In fact, I have mentioned before that the discourses are in book form in many mormon homes. Mormons just see the sermons differently. I gave a good mormon explanation about the discourses that came right from the Ensign, the mormon church magazine. I also posted wonderful quotations by brigham young.

It would be nice to go into the vatican archive and do some research about what was said during the religious was that engulfed europe. I am sure that we would find some humdingers in the vatican archive. Brigham Young was out and about among the mormons and he said many things. Some are strange but a lot are wonderful. He was a frontier man, leading the mormons after Joseph Smith was murdered. He main job was to establish the lds church in a new area of the country and establish a place where mormons could worship freely. Mormons from all over europe flocked to utah and established a home. That was Brigham’s main responsibility.

And so, mormons admire Brigham for the wonderful work that he did. And today, we have a lds church and its members who are helping to create wonderful communities for people to live in because their value structure is second to none. And mormons have also Brigham Young to thank for that among other church leaders and lds members.
No, they are ashamed. That is why they run from them and try to change them
 
If I had a choice of educating my daughters or my sons because of opportunity constraints, I would choose to educate my daughters.
Brigham Young

Wow, I agree with Tom. It seems that Brigham was ahead of his time on that quotation. 🙂
“Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).

Was he ahead of his time on this one?
 
(Edited)

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).

Was this one a wow for you, Why?
 
The lds people here are rude? Really? Look over your posts and see rudeness. My gosh Atticus/Tom, you have some rude posts under your screen name. Mormons constantly read threads from you and your friend answers that insult the mormon religion. You are here because you have an agenda of stirring the pot between mormons and catholics. And that is rude. A good catholic shows charity toward others and their faith. And a good catholic prays for the other.

We all need to do an examination of conscious on these mormon threads. 🙂
I am only rude when folks are rude to me. So, if I am rude…

Today is Sunday, what side of the fence you gonna be on today?
 
Yea, and that is the point. We should all go over to baptist boards and read the quotations from famous popes. 🙂 I am sure that they are using humdingers…or famous church fathers. What Atticus/Tom doesn’t realize is that all churches can be bashed and dragged through the mud. Why? because they are made up of people and people aren’t perfect.
Sigh…is it that you truly are unable to understand the silly concept of comparing a Pope to a man who claims he and Jesus have conversations face to face? Absolutely incredible.

But, continue with the red herrings
 
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