Interesting Brigham Young Quotes

[SirThomasMore]

You must be a prophet!

Hopefully, he won;t preach nthat Adam is God like a Mormon “prophet” did.

 

[Michael_Francis]

***18 posts have been deleted and several more have been edited to remove off topic remarks.

Please deal with the topic an do not interject off topic information or suggest that members here should visit other forums to debate/discuss their faith. (Known as “board swarming” and a Banned Topic** here at CAF.)
*

 

[SirThomasMore]

Thank you. This thread was to discuss the really odd quotes by LDS men allegedly filled with the Spirit

 

[why_me]

So these discourses may or may not be accurate? If this is the case, why are they considered of any importance? I am asking because I wonder if their importance is being exaggerated.

Here is what happened before the internet:

The books are published and reprinted over and over again. Members buy them and put them in their home library. Some read them but most know the story behind them. But they are in the home library because they are interesting to read. No problem.

After the internet:

Critics begin to cherry pick from them in an attempt to discredit the lds church and to make it look bad. No critics publishes the disclaimer which I just gave. People like yourself may read the quotations and say…my gosh what a terrible person Brigham Young was. And lds members who are not in the know…become disillusioned not realizing that these books have been in lds libraries for years and years. And they do not know the disclaimer either.

Critic cutting and pasting works wonders…for trying to get the lds to doubt their faith.

 

[why_me]

No, they are ashamed. That is why they run from them and try to change them

Now Tom, the disclaimer was made long before the Internet. Most lds people knew about it when they bought the volumes. There was no problem at all. But guys like you want the lds to be ashamed. But really, there is nothing to be ashamed about. I gave the way in which we have the journals. We do not have the originals speech. But what the lds do have is the reported speech. What to do?

 

[SirThomasMore]

Now Tom, the disclaimer was made long before the Internet. Most lds people knew about it when they bought the volumes. There was no problem at all. But guys like you want the lds to be ashamed. But really, there is nothing to be ashamed about. I gave the way in which we have the journals. We do not have the originals speech. But what the lds do have is the reported speech. What to do?

prove it. Prove all lds have all the speeches quoted from on this thread. Prove they all knew About them.

 

[SirThomasMore]

prove it. Prove all lds have all the speeches quoted from on this thread. Prove they all knew About them.

thats what I thought.

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

Important point to correct.

This would be the same thing as a non-Catholic lambasting the Catholic Church because of the actions of Pope Urban VIII condemning Galileo of heresy for going against Church Doctrine in proclaiming that the earth revolves around the sun.

Galileo was not condemned for violating Church doctrine, because geocentrism was never a dogma to begin with. Galileo was censured for insisting that the Church dogmatically proclaim the sun to be the center of the universe, which was not his place to demand, is not the Church’s place to define, and is not actually true in the first place! Also important to remember is that, while some saw heliocentrism as an interesting theory during that time, Galileo couldn’t prove it over the objections of his scientific peers of the day.

That case (popular falsehoods & misunderstandings) is an entirely different than the matter at hand of actual statements made by a religious leader.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[SirThomasMore]

Gotta keep the quotes from therse “Spirit-filled” men in our sight

 

[SirThomasMore]

"There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 247; see also, vol. 4, p. 53-54, 219-220).

…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312).

“I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 161). (hmmmm…even that Adam is God?)

"I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom…I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.(Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

“Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266). Also, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269). (wow…Woodruff is in trouble)

“…no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289). (really?)

“God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 120). (wow…so God is not all-knowing and all-powerful?)

"What man or woman on earth, what spirit in the spirit-world can say truthfully that I ever gave a wrong word of counsel, or a word of advice that could not be sanctioned by the heavens? The success which has attended me in my presidency is owing to the blessings and mercy of the Almighty . . . " (Journal of Discourses, vol. 12, p. 127). (so then, Adam IS God?)

“The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood–was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115). (really? How is a virgin birh natural?)

“I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50).

“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind…Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 290).
“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants,” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 172).
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110). (wow)

 

[SirThomasMore]

These are not all BY quotes, but look at how LDS leaders look at the Christian world. Also notice that they consider themselves separate from Christians. Now, as they try to become more mainstream, they try to say they ARE Chrsitians…but do they really?

Journal of Discourses 5:73–“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness.”

Journal of Discourses 8:99–“With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.”

Journal of Discourses 6:25–“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast.”

Orson Pratt (Mormon Apostle)–"…all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives baptism of the Lord’s supper from their hands highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people" (The Seer, pg 255)

Heber C. Kimball (First Counselor to Brigham Young)–“Christians - those poor, miserable priests Brother Brigham was speaking about - some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth…” (Journal of Discourses 5:39)

 

[SirThomasMore]

“The universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain him as such…if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or “sense of justice” of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the “power” of God would disintegrateóHe would cease to be God.” W. Cleon Skousen (Former BYU Professor & founder of Mormon-based National Center For Constitutional Studies), The First 2000 Years , p. 355.

“In the heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each of whom has his own wife or wives, which were given to him …while yet in his mortal state.” Orson Pratt (Apostle), The Seer, p. 37.

“Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married…whereby he could see his seed.” Orson Hyde, Apostle, Journal of Discourses,Vol. 2, p. 82.

From Joseph:

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol 6, pp.408,409).

 

[SirThomasMore]

Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness, he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was placed upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fulness of the blessings of the Gospel." Joseph Fielding Smith (Prophet), The Way To Perfection, p. 102.

“The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world…In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 348, 349)

“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 289)

 

[why_me]

prove it. Prove all lds have all the speeches quoted from on this thread. Prove they all knew About them.

Well, tom, I was around back then. I know that members had them in their libraries and nobody fell away from the lds church that looked at them or read them, at least around me. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong but the disclaimer might have been the books. I don’t have a set of BY’s reported sermons

 

[SirThomasMore]

Well, tom, I was around back then. I know that members had them in their libraries and nobody fell away from the lds church that looked at them or read them, at least around me. If I remember correctly and I could be wrong but the disclaimer might have been the books. I don’t have a set of BY’s reported sermons

That is what I thought. You can;t prove that all LDS had the books I quoted from. Figures

 

[SirThomasMore]

I am amazed at these comments by early LDS leaders…wow

 

[SirThomasMore]

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. If any penitent believer desires to obtain forgiveness of sins through baptism, let him beware of having any thing to do with the churches of apostate Christendom, lest he perish in the awful plagues and judgments, denounced against them. The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints. Before the restoration of the church of Christ to the earth in the year 1830, there have been no people on the earth for many generations possessing authority from God to minister gospelordinances. We again repeat. Beware of the hypocritical false teachers and imposters of Babylon! - Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255

 

[SirThomasMore]

“Babylon, literally understood, is the gay world; spiritual wickedness, the golden city, and the glory of the world, The priests of Egypt, who received a portion gratis from Pharaoh; the priests of Baal, and the Pharisees, and Sadducees, with their “long robes,” among the Jews, are equally included in their mother’s family, with the Roman Catholics, Protestants, and all that have not had the keys of the kingdom and power thereof, according to the ordinances of God.” - Prophet John Taylor, Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.939

 

[SirThomasMore]

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel. Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.84 - p.85

 

[RebeccaJ]

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. If any penitent believer desires to obtain forgiveness of sins through baptism, let him beware of having any thing to do with the churches of apostate Christendom, lest he perish in the awful plagues and judgments, denounced against them. The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints. Before the restoration of the church of Christ to the earth in the year 1830, there have been no people on the earth for many generations possessing authority from God to minister gospelordinances. We again repeat. Beware of the hypocritical false teachers and imposters of Babylon! - Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255

“Babylon, literally understood, is the gay world; spiritual wickedness, the golden city, and the glory of the world, The priests of Egypt, who received a portion gratis from Pharaoh; the priests of Baal, and the Pharisees, and Sadducees, with their “long robes,” among the Jews, are equally included in their mother’s family, with the Roman Catholics, Protestants, and all that have not had the keys of the kingdom and power thereof, according to the ordinances of God.” - Prophet John Taylor, Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.939

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel. Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.84 - p.85

'I’m sorry? All I heard was, “blah blah blah, I’m a dirty tramp.” ’

:curtsey:

(“Mr Deeds”, 2002)