Interesting conversation with a neighbor

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My neighbor is in his late 70’s and in a conversation about 1 year ago he was lamenting the fact that none of his four children practice the Faith even after sending all of them to Catholic school for grades 1 - 12.

Since I’m the same age as his children, I told him they don’t practice the Faith in large part because they were never taught the Faith while going to ‘Catholic’ school. He looked at me dumbfounded.

We live in the southeastern US where there aren’t many Catholics. The history of this diocese and the ‘Catholic’ schools here have not been known for their adherence to Catholic orthodoxy. Things are a little better now but the during the 1980’s - 1990’s the diocese was under poor leadership.

Shortly after this conversation this neighbor and his wife invited me and my wife to dinner at their home. He brought up the subject of our conversation again. He knows that I assisted at a TLM for many years whereas he & his wife go to a Catholic Church down the street which is not exactly traditional in its archtechture or practice of the Faith. He told me he went to the TLM for many years when he was a young man. He said that he hoped that the TLM would ‘die and be buried’.

I laughed at him at the dinner table. I asked him how many vocations to the priesthood and religious life had come from the large (3000 families) ‘modern’ neighborhood parish he went to for the last 40 years. He wasn’t aware of any. I then told him that the small traditional chapel I had been going to for the previous 6 - 7 years sent 4 young men to the seminary in the time I was there, had 2 young men ordained who went to seminary prior to my time there and sent 2 young women to the convent. Needles to say, he wanted to change the subject of the conversation.

It never ceases to amaze me that these Catholics don’t see any connection between how they practice the Faith and the fact that what they do bears little to no fruit either among their family or among other Catholics.
 
The St John Cantius Fathers in the last three years, since they are around here at the North Subs ordained 3 priests, a deacon will be ordained this Thursday. Also just from our parish two young women get the habit.

They are mixed rite parish.

The reverence, not the form of the Mass draws the vocations.
 
The St John Cantius Fathers in the last three years, since they are around here at the North Subs ordained 3 priests, a deacon will be ordained this Thursday. Also just from our parish two young women get the habit.

They are mixed rite parish.

The reverence, not the form of the Mass draws the vocations.
AMEN!

Our parish also has both forms of the Mass, and I know of at least 1, and probably 2 men who went there as laymen, and were later ordained as priests, our pastor being one of them. I’m not sure whether we even had an EF when our pastor was ordained. Our parish has always had a tradition of reverence, no matter which form of the Mass is being celebrated.
 
The reverence, not the form of the Mass draws the vocations.
Are you sure it’s not the church’s architecture? 🙂

Seriously though, I’ve been in Volo; it’s very traditional looking, beautiful, and free from that megaChurch atmosphere. The priests and parishioners have made it that way. One can easily be inspired just being inside.
 
Are you sure it’s not the church’s architecture? 🙂

Seriously though, I’ve been in Volo; it’s very traditional looking, beautiful, and free from that megaChurch atmosphere. The priests and parishioners have made it that way. One can easily be inspired just being inside.
The Church architecture is very important. In the eyes of the altar servers when they come in or leave the Mass in the process, one can see the pride for their Church. I never saw that in my territorial Church.

However, the nearby Marytown (Libertyville) has a very similar architecture, and above that perpetual adoration since the 1930’s, and as far as I know (from a priest who was sent there to help them out) they are struggling with the vocations.

Volo is a remnant. It was small (even in 2000 only 40 families, and poor). Until the St John Cantius fathers came is it was dusty, father Kolinsky cleaned it up , so it get back the original splendor from the 1920’s.
 
My neighbor is in his late 70’s and in a conversation about 1 year ago he was lamenting the fact that none of his four children practice the Faith even after sending all of them to Catholic school for grades 1 - 12.

Since I’m the same age as his children, I told him they don’t practice the Faith in large part because they were never taught the Faith while going to ‘Catholic’ school. He looked at me dumbfounded.

We live in the southeastern US where there aren’t many Catholics. The history of this diocese and the ‘Catholic’ schools here have not been known for their adherence to Catholic orthodoxy. Things are a little better now but the during the 1980’s - 1990’s the diocese was under poor leadership.

Shortly after this conversation this neighbor and his wife invited me and my wife to dinner at their home. He brought up the subject of our conversation again. He knows that I assisted at a TLM for many years whereas he & his wife go to a Catholic Church down the street which is not exactly traditional in its archtechture or practice of the Faith. He told me he went to the TLM for many years when he was a young man. He said that he hoped that the TLM would ‘die and be buried’.

I laughed at him at the dinner table. I asked him how many vocations to the priesthood and religious life had come from the large (3000 families) ‘modern’ neighborhood parish he went to for the last 40 years. He wasn’t aware of any. I then told him that the small traditional chapel I had been going to for the previous 6 - 7 years sent 4 young men to the seminary in the time I was there, had 2 young men ordained who went to seminary prior to my time there and sent 2 young women to the convent. Needles to say, he wanted to change the subject of the conversation.

It never ceases to amaze me that these Catholics don’t see any connection between how they practice the Faith and the fact that what they do bears little to no fruit either among their family or among other Catholics.
I saddens me to now know that not only is there division among Christians as in different denominations, but there is division in the Catholic Church as well!! :mad: Seriously, people who attend the Trinidine mass think they are better than those who attend ordinary mass??? I am in an ordinary parish with an extraordinary priest and 2 young men are looking into the priesthood and 5 young women are looking to become nuns.😃
 
I saddens me to now know that not only is there division among Christians as in different denominations, but there is division in the Catholic Church as well!! :mad: Seriously, people who attend the Trinidine mass think they are better than those who attend ordinary mass??? I am in an ordinary parish with an extraordinary priest and 2 young men are looking into the priesthood and 5 young women are looking to become nuns.😃
From the OP I had the impression that the individual that attended the OF had a strong resentment against the EF. I can only assume that in the case of the OP the individual that attended the OF thought that he was better than the people that attend the EF.
 
MarthaFerretti,

Is my understanding right, in that you say:
    • you were “invited” to dinner,
    • you were guests in the home of someone old enough to be your parents,
    • you lectured your host/neighbor and actually “laughed at him” in response to dinner conversation???
Here’s some Latin I remember: Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa.

If it was different than listed above, I would still be careful about the attitude - - - that the form or artifacts inside any building alone produces genuine faith.
 
I saddens me to now know that not only is there division among Christians as in different denominations, but there is division in the Catholic Church as well!! :mad: Seriously, people who attend the Trinidine mass think they are better than those who attend ordinary mass??? I am in an ordinary parish with an extraordinary priest and 2 young men are looking into the priesthood and 5 young women are looking to become nuns.😃
And it saddens me when people bunch all those who preffer the EF over the OF as “elites” or “snobs”. This is not true!
 
Apart from being wrong on the issue of vocations, your neighbor was rude to insult the Mass after being made aware you attend it. Being in your own home does not give anyone the right to act that way.
 
MarthaFerretti,

Is my understanding right, in that you say:
    • you were “invited” to dinner,
    • you were guests in the home of someone old enough to be your parents,
    • you lectured your host/neighbor and actually “laughed at him” in response to dinner conversation???
Here’s some Latin I remember: Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa.

If it was different than listed above, I would still be careful about the attitude - - - that the form or artifacts inside any building alone produces genuine faith.
Yep. Thats the way it all sounded to me as well. I would have wanted to change the conversation too. There is an old saying that my mother used to share with me, that these older folks are probably very aware of as well. "You can’t teach anything to a person who assumes to know everything."

I’m not saying that this is the state of mind of the OP, but chances are you came off that way to this older gentleman, and in some regards, that is the way you came off in this thread. Sorry if this offends the OP, but thats just my two cents.
 
MarthaFerretti,

Is my understanding right, in that you say:
    • you were “invited” to dinner,
    • you were guests in the home of someone old enough to be your parents,
    • you lectured your host/neighbor and actually “laughed at him” in response to dinner conversation???
Here’s some Latin I remember: Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa.

If it was different than listed above, I would still be careful about the attitude - - - that the form or artifacts inside any building alone produces genuine faith.
So you are saying that it is fine for a Catholic to invite someone to dinner and to insult the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? Are you saying that age justifies the host to behave like jackasses on something that it is so sacred?
 
Cristiano,

No, I’m not saying the neighbor was being considerate with the comment about the Tridentine Mass, but the response was even worse. It just compounded the situation. Two sins versus one.

The proper reply would have been "it may not have been everyone’s cup of tea, but I’m glad we now still have choice . . . " or something to that effect.
 
However, the nearby Marytown (Libertyville) has a very similar architecture, and above that perpetual adoration since the 1930’s, and as far as I know (from a priest who was sent there to help them out) they are struggling with the vocations.
I’ve been to Marytown. Much bigger. That was one of the first sites where the EF was installed by Cardinal Bernadine. But that belongs to a religious order, I believe, who have had decreasing vocations for a long time, as you say.
Volo is a remnant. It was small (even in 2000 only 40 families, and poor). Until the St John Cantius fathers came is it was dusty, father Kolinsky cleaned it up , so it get back the original splendor from the 1920’s.
After Fr. Dietz. 😉
 
Seriously, people who attend the Trinidine mass think they are better than those who attend ordinary mass??? I am in an ordinary parish with an extraordinary priest and 2 young men are looking into the priesthood and 5 young women are looking to become nuns.😃
Am I misreading this statement? Are you saying that when an adherent of the OF actually says that he hopes the EF Mass would ‘just die and be buried’ it is an example of traditionalists thinking they are better than others? I can guarantee if any traditionalist said this of the Novus Ordo Mass people would come out in droves attacking the sacrilege and using it as an example that such people deny the validity of the OF. But, when a modern Catholic says it about the EF, silence. Well, not quite, people don’t miss the chance to somehow still attack the traditionally minded person. Typical. 🤷
 
I laughed at him at the dinner table. I asked him how many vocations to the priesthood and religious life had come from the large (3000 families) ‘modern’ neighborhood parish he went to for the last 40 years. He wasn’t aware of any. I then told him that the small traditional chapel I had been going to for the previous 6 - 7 years sent 4 young men to the seminary in the time I was there, had 2 young men ordained who went to seminary prior to my time there and sent 2 young women to the convent. Needles to say, he wanted to change the subject of the conversation.
.
I’m wondering not so much about laughing in the guys face but why the OP felt the need to tell us that.

And I really have no idea what the OP is talking about in terms of the Catholic faith here in the South. I would like to know what city and diocese he is from. I happen to belong to St. Catherine of Siena Parish in the Archdioces of Atlanta, here in sleepy ol’ Kennesaw Georgia, which by the way is the 56th biggest parish in the world. We are often described as a mega-parish with just about 300 families.

We have had three priests ordained out of our parish in the past five years, another just accepted to Seminary and I know of two who are discerning. We have had several woman go to the convent and I know of one man who is a postulant at a monstary.

We have four Dominician Sisters of St. Cecilia serving about 400 students at our Catholic School. We have seven deacons, 225 committed adorers, twenty five adult altar servers and I’m discerning either a call to the diaconate or to become a lay associate to the Cistercian Monestary of the Holy Spirit in Conyers, GA. We had 2015 people’s names read at the Rite of Election last year and ordained fifteen deacons in our Archdiocese.

The Southeastern US is a hot-bed of Catholicism. Where do you think all of those Catholics from the closed parishes up north went? I recently ran into a man at an Opus Dei evening of recollection who was visiting Atlanta because he was “Looking for a good Catholic area” to relocate to. His words, not mine. I was astonished. Chatanooga, Birmingham, Greenville SC (Father Longenecker!), Charlston… all are booming in terms of the Catholic faith.

I really have to question the validity of the orginal posters comments. It’s certainly not my perspective.

-Tim-
 
Cristiano,

No, I’m not saying the neighbor was being considerate with the comment about the Tridentine Mass, but the response was even worse…
So you are saying that laughing at someone’s idiotic comments is worse that insulting the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I guess that we have different priorities.🤷
 
Shortly after this conversation this neighbor and his wife invited me and my wife to dinner at their home. He brought up the subject of our conversation again. He knows that I assisted at a TLM for many years whereas he & his wife go to a Catholic Church down the street which is not exactly traditional in its archtechture or practice of the Faith. He told me he went to the TLM for many years when he was a young man. He said that he hoped that the TLM would ‘die and be buried’.
If his memory of the TLM was a “silent” TLM like the one I attended a few weeks ago, I can understand his sentiments. In that sense, I understand why Vatican II came about.

I think the current TLMs, of which a lot are sung, with some responses by the people, in addition to the schola, are more conducive to “assisting” at mass.
 
The reverence, not the form of the Mass draws the vocations.
I agree, reverence got tossed out in a lot of parishes that went the 60s and 70s route full bore. I am not a fan of the Latin Mass, although it did have an aura of holiness and reverence. The problem came when Catholics tried to imitate protestants by making the Mass more ‘relevant’ to the congregation instead of educating the congregation as to the Mass’ relevance.

Our church was ‘modernized’. Can you imagine a 19th century German Gothic building with Alexander Calder style stations of the cross? All our statues gone, large modern graphics in place of Mary and Joseph at the side altars?

Why be Catholic when the message said Catholics and Protestants are all the same? I’m the second oldest of 6 and the only practicing Catholic in the family. But that is the message we got. Church isn’t important, loving Jesus is. There’s no difference between Christian faiths so pick the one you like or don’t pick any.

The Church failed to keep the reverence, failed to teach the why we are Catholic and why the Church teaches what she does.

Fortunately we have a new priest who with the bishop’s approval has started us on a 3 yr building project. Already we see an improvement. Modern art is gone and traditional art is back. The church is filling, contributions are up. But we didn’t have to go all the way back to the Latin Mass. We have both a men’s choir for traditional and high holy days and a youth choir. I’d say we have the best of both worlds now. But definitely the reverence is back!
 
Cristiano,

I think you may be reading too much into the statement the OP’s neighbor made (about retiring the Latin Mass).

Remember, he was talking about the “form” of the mass, not the “substance.” Consequently, he wasn’t insulting the Mass itself, or the Lord, rather, he was honestly echoing a prevailing sentiment of those times . . . .
 
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