Interesting notes

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JimG:
You seem to reinforce the point I was trying to make in my previous post, since you immediately go to quoting the Quran as your only source of justification for this. If you ever read the works of F.J. Sheed, Thomas Aquinas, the church Fathers, and other theologians, you could see that Christians esteem God to the highest possible degree (latria, the worship due to one’s Creator.)

Christians don’t believe that God has partners. We believe that there can be only One God because there is only One Divine Nature. But there is a distinction between nature and person. (What you are vs Who you are.)

The nature and attributes of God is more of a subject for theology than argument. But you have to be willing to apply your God-given reason to sources other than the Quran.
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Well, don’t you agree that Christian’s denominations have a deferent concept of trinity. Do you? And they have about 65 copies from the bible ?
Some denomination believe that Jesus is Son of God others believe he is a God, others believe that Mary the mother is divine also, so even Christians scholars cannot recognize the concept of the trinity. Note this is not from Quran.

The “Trinity,” or 1+1+1=1

Please read.

wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.2.html

Peace
 
gurrato alaien:
Well, don’t you agree that Christian’s denominations have a deferent concept of trinity. Do you? And they have about 65 copies from the bible ?
Some denomination believe that Jesus is Son of God others believe he is a God, others believe that Mary the mother is divine also, so even Christians scholars cannot recognize the concept of the trinity. Note this is not from Quran.

The “Trinity,” or 1+1+1=1

Please read.

wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.2.html

Peace
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answering-islam.org/Responses/Al-Kadhi/toc.html
 
gurrato alaien:
Well, don’t you agree that Christian’s denominations have a deferent concept of trinity. Do you?Peace
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Do you agree there are different sects within Islam upholding different beliefs? Do you?
And they have about 65 copies from the bible ?
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Did we authorise these copies? The devil is at work just as foretold from days of old!
Some denomination believe that Jesus is Son of God others believe he is a God, others believe that Mary the mother is divine also, so even Christians scholars cannot recognize the concept of the trinity. Note this is not from Quran
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Sorry that puts islam in there amongst all of them.
 
gurrato alaien:
Well, don’t you agree that Christian’s denominations have a deferent concept of trinity. Do you? And they have about 65 copies from the bible ?
Some denomination believe that Jesus is Son of God others believe he is a God, others believe that Mary the mother is divine also, so even Christians scholars cannot recognize the concept of the trinity. Note this is not from Quran.
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The only concept of the Trinity with which I am thoroughly familiar is the Catholic one. I do think that most Christian denominations agree on the idea of the Trinity, although perhaps not all fully understand it as it should be. Some tend to lapse into modalism.

I do not know of ANY Christians who believe that Mary is divine also.

But, as I said before, the idea of the Trinity will not make sense unless one starts out with the idea that God in his essence is pure infinte Spirit–not matter.

Do Muslims believe that God is pure Spirit and not matter?
 
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JimG:
I do not know of ANY Christians who believe that Mary is divine also.
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I think he knows that just as well as we do… but that won’t change anything.
 
Christians believe in three Persons in One God only because it was revealed by Jesus. The nature of God is not something that humanity can figure out without revelation.
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But having been revealed, we can at least think about it. Before discussing the nature of the Trinity, one ought to begin with the attributes of God, such as eternity, omnipresence, omnipotence, all-merciful, all-loving, all-good, etc. Each attribute or quality that we can state of God is identified with his Divine nature. So those attributes are not separate, but one.
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God is pure Spirit, not material. This is a distinction I do not find being made in Islam. Neither have I found, at least on this forum, a discussion of the attributes of God as he is in Himself, or the nature of spirit as distinguished from matter.
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From God’s nature as pure infinite spirit, we can go on to discuss his knowledge and will, and then on to a discussion of the Trinity. But it is difficult to do with anyone who has not read some basic Christian theology, such as this.
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I honestly appreciate the effort…but at the end of the discussion, NO Christian will be able to fully explain the trinity WHILE at the same time reconciling it with the verses in the Bible.

Sticking with the “its a mystery and thats why its beautiful” reasoning is a much better way to go.

From a Muslim’s standpoint, we can discuss the attributes of God. THe adjectives He uses to desribe Himself. But I refuse to ponder about God what He has not revealed about Himself. What He HAS revelaed, makes sense, its understandable and it serves as the foundation for my relationship with Him.
From what I have seen on this forum, Muslim’s seem generally unwilling to discuss God in a philosophical manner aside from what may be found in the Quran
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We only know of Him what He has chosen to reveal…and thats enough.
 
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Faith101:
From a Muslim’s standpoint, we can discuss the attributes of God. THe adjectives He uses to desribe Himself. But I refuse to ponder about God what He has not revealed about Himself. What He HAS revelaed, makes sense, its understandable and it serves as the foundation for my relationship with Him.
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Adjectives or names of God are not the same as essential attributes of His nature.

Matter versus spirit is pretty basic. If God is made of matter, then he has parts, because matter has parts. Matter is divisible. Because it has parts, it can come apart. So if God’s essence were matter, he would not be God: one part of him would not be the other part.

But if you are unwilling even to think about the matter, then obviously you are not going to try to read Frank Sheed. And if you are unwilling even to read so straightforward a presentation of the Trinity as given by Sheed, then you certainly won’t have the experience of a Christian explaining the trinity “WHILE at the same time reconciling it with the verses in the Bible.”
 
JimG said:
Adjectives or names of God are not the same as essential attributes of His nature.
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Matter versus spirit is pretty basic. If God is made of matter, then he has parts, because matter has parts. Matter is divisible. Because it has parts, it can come
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apart. So if God’s essence were matter, he would not be God: one part of him would not be the other part.

Brother in humanity JimG

I apologize for saying this, but it must be said…keep the confusion to yourself.
But if you are unwilling even to think about the matter, then obviously you are not going to try to read Frank Sheed. And if you are unwilling even to read so straightforward a presentation of the Trinity as given by Sheed, then you certainly won’t have the experience of a Christian explaining the trinity “WHILE at the same time reconciling it with the verses in the Bible.”
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Neither frank sheed nor your greatest christian scholar can explain the trinity AND reconcile the verses in the Bible with it. If you believe that he did, then please present his argument here.
After long beautiful explanations…when faced with an array of questions, they say “its a mystery”

i will NOT discuss anything about God outside of what He has revealed about Himself. PERIOD. Its none of my business…i have enough stuff to worry about like obeying God and being a good person.
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Of course it is a mystery, but neither is it a contradiction. That only means that God’s nature is far above our intellect, not contrary to it.

Do Muslims believe that God is spirit?
 
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sainted:
Do you agree there are different sects within Islam upholding different beliefs? Do you?
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Peace to you brotehr,

No, I don’t agree, unlike Christianity, all sects of Islam believe in The Quran one original copy since 1400 years, they believe in one true God without partner, they believe in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the last prophet.
 
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exoflare:
I think he knows that just as well as we do… but that won’t change anything. Facts don’t mean a lot to this guy… remember the so-called “pornography” in the Song of Songs? :rotfl:
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As all Muslims I know the facts very well, and regarding the pornography in the Song of Songs, you are trying to convince your self that its normal words. Despite that any one read it will say it’s a pornography.
 
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JimG:
The only concept of the Trinity with which I am thoroughly familiar is the Catholic one. I do think that most Christian denominations agree on the idea of the Trinity, although perhaps not all fully understand it as it should be. Some tend to lapse into modalism.
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Don’t think, this will make a big question mark on Christianity!!!
 
gurrato alaien:
Peace to you brotehr,

No, I don’t agree, unlike Christianity, all sects of Islam believe in The Quran one original copy since 1400 years, they believe in one true God without partner, they believe in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the last prophet.
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Any idea with Ahmadiyya sect?..
 
gurrato alaien:
Peace to you brotehr,

No, I don’t agree, unlike Christianity, all sects of Islam believe in The Quran one original copy since 1400 years, they believe in one true God without partner, they believe in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the last prophet.
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Peace.

With all due respect, I do not then understand the rejection of the Shi’ite Muslims and their rejection of Mohammed as the true prophet of Islam, in context to your statement. Could you please explain? :confused:
 
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Tonks40:
Peace.

With all due respect, I do not then understand the rejection of the Shi’ite Muslims and their rejection of Mohammed as the true prophet of Islam, in context to your statement. Could you please explain? :confused:
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and peace to brother,

Shi’a believe in one true God and the holy Quran same sunni Quran and they believe in prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the problem with shi’a is that they turned out from mainstream of Islam they loved Emam Ali so much they claimed that he should be the first Khalipha after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and not Abu Baker. Even though they believe in God and Quran and prophet Muhammad.
 
gurrato alaien:
As all Muslims I know the facts very well, and regarding the pornography in the Song of Songs, you are trying to convince your self that its normal words. Despite that any one read it will say it’s a pornography.
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LOL who are you to talk? You’re lucky the mods saved your hide and deleted that whole thread. I think enough people got a good look at it before it was taken down to get a glimpse of your true face anyway. If you’re so sure of yourself, go ahead and post the argument again so that your silly lie will be revealed to possibly even more people… or just go on mindlessly beating your chest some more, I really don’t care either way.
 
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exoflare:
LOL who are you to talk? You’re lucky the mods saved your hide and deleted that whole thread. I think enough people got a good look at it before it was taken down to get a glimpse of your true face anyway. If you’re so sure of yourself, go ahead and post the argument again so that your silly lie will be revealed to possibly even more people… or just go on mindlessly beating your chest some more, I really don’t care either way.
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Brother, you offend me many times, I can do the same its very easy, but that is not my manner as Muslim. May God guide you to the truth.

This is the link for x-rated pornography in the bible:

answering-christianity.com/x_rated.htm
 
gurrato alaien:
Brother, you offend me many times, I can do the same its very easy, but that is not my manner as Muslim. May God guide you to the truth.
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Look up the word “projection” in the dictionary. It has more meanings than just casting an image…
 
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