interesting Quotes from the Quran

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God’s chosen people
44:30 And, indeed, We delivered the children of Israel from the shameful suffering
44:31 [inflicted on them] by Pharaoh, seeing that he was truly outstand*ing among those who waste their own selves;
44:32 and indeed, We chose them knowingly above all other people
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2:122  O children of Israel ! Remember those blessings of Mine with which I graced you, ***and how I favored you above all other people***;
Christian Martyrs

Chapter 85 of the Quran mentions the Christian martyrs who were put to death in a burning fire in 523 AD.
  • ** 4. ***Cursed were the people of the ditch (the story of the Boy and the King).
    • ** 5. ***Fire supplied (abundantly) with fuel,
    • ** 6. ***When they sat by it (fire),
    • ** 7. ***And they witnessed what they were doing against the believers (i.e. burning them).
      *** 8. They had nothing against them, except that they believed in Allâh, the All-Mighty, Worthy of all Praise! ***
    • ** 9. ***Who, to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth! And Allâh is Witness over everything.
    • ** 10. ***Verily, those who put into trial the believing men and believing women (by torturing them and burning them), and then do not turn in repentance, (to Allâh), will have the torment of Hell, and they will have the punishment of the burning Fire.
      *** 11. Verily, those who believe and do righteous good deeds, for them will be Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise). That is the great success. ***
      *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it “King” or "Pharaoh"

The kings of ancient Egypt during the time of Abraham, Joseph and Moses are constantly addressed with the title ‘Pharaoh’ in the Bible.

The Qur’an, however, differs from the Bible:

the sovereign of Egypt who was a contemporary of Joseph is named “King” (Arabic,Malik); whereas the Bible has named him “Pharaoh”. As for the king who ruled during the time of Moses the Qur’an repeatedly calls him “Pharaoh” (Arabic, Fir`awn).

in the time of Joesph
Code: 
The ***king ***      said: "I do see seven fat cows, whom seven lean ones devour,      and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! expound      to me my vision, if it be that ye can interpret visions." [Qur'an      12:43]
in the time of Moses

Then after them sent We Moses and Aaron to ***Pharaoh ***and his chiefs with Our Signs. But they were arrogant: they were a people in sin.[Qur’an 10:75]
Pharaoh: Term used regularly by modern writers to refer to the Egyptian king. The word is the Greek form of the ancient Egyptian phrase per-aa (‘the great house’) which was originally used to refer to the royal palace rather than the king. The ‘great house’ was responsible for taxation of the lesser ‘houses’ (perw), such as the temple lands and private estates. From the New Kingdom (1550-1069 BC) onwards, the term was used to refer to the king himself.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/josephdetail.html
​
 
Since you provided the good quotes, I shall provide the other quotes:

[5.64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

[62.6] Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful.

[2.135] And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.

[2.120] And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah’s guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.

[2.113] And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.
 
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Hadi:
Is it “King” or "Pharaoh"

The kings of ancient Egypt during the time of Abraham, Joseph and Moses are constantly addressed with the title ‘Pharaoh’ in the Bible.

The Qur’an, however, differs from the Bible:

the sovereign of Egypt who was a contemporary of Joseph is named “King” (Arabic,Malik); whereas the Bible has named him “Pharaoh”. As for the king who ruled during the time of Moses the Qur’an repeatedly calls him “Pharaoh” (Arabic, Fir`awn).

in the time of Joesph
Code: 
The ***king ***      said: "I do see seven fat cows, whom seven lean ones devour,      and seven green ears of corn, and seven (others) withered. O ye chiefs! expound      to me my vision, if it be that ye can interpret visions." [Qur'an      12:43]
in the time of Moses

Then after them sent We Moses and Aaron to ***Pharaoh ***and his chiefs with Our Signs. But they were arrogant: they were a people in sin.[Qur’an 10:75]
Pharaoh: Term used regularly by modern writers to refer to the Egyptian king. The word is the Greek form of the ancient Egyptian phrase per-aa (‘the great house’) which was originally used to refer to the royal palace rather than the king. The ‘great house’ was responsible for taxation of the lesser ‘houses’ (perw), such as the temple lands and private estates. From the New Kingdom (1550-1069 BC) onwards, the term was used to refer to the king himself.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/josephdetail.html
​

Just curious…why are you pointing this out? Do you see any significance in the Qur’an calling Pharaoh both king and pharaoh?
 
SalomeBintullah said:
Just curious…why are you pointing this out? Do you see any significance in the Qur’an calling Pharaoh both king and pharaoh?
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He’s attempting to use it to show the corruption of the Bible. It’s how most Muslims argue on CAF.

You can go here to learn all about dialoguing with Muslims on Islam: www.sillyallah.com
 
If the Quran differs from the Jewish scriptures, I would accept the Jewish scriptures as being more accurate since they were written closer to the time of Joseph and Moses and were very carefully passed down in writing and by word of mouth.

Christians believe that the scriptures were inspired by God who was able to guide the transmission of them to us.
 
Eucharisted said:
He’s attempting to use it to show the corruption of the Bible. It’s how most Muslims argue on CAF.

You can go here to learn all about dialoguing with Muslims on Islam: www.sillyallah.com
Click to expand...
Ah, I think I see. I guess it never occurred to him that the first five books of the Bible are traditionally believed to have been written down by Moses, who did in fact live during the New Kingdom when the term pr-aa was in use. Therefore it would make perfect sense that he would use the term. 😉 In any case, I believe that Egyptologist K.A. Kitchen addresses this in his excellent book On the Reliability of the Old Testament.

And thanks for the link, by the way. 👍
 
Claire_from_DE said:
If the Quran differs from the Jewish scriptures, I would accept the Jewish scriptures as being more accurate since they were written closer to the time of Joseph and Moses and were very carefully passed down in writing and by word of mouth.

Christians believe that the scriptures were inspired by God who was able to guide the transmission of them to us.
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Strange, the Jewish scripture were very carefully passed down in writing and by word of mouth. yet we don’t have any of the original manuscripts, and further more we have many many discrepancies and contradictions within the current OT

example:
Man was created after the plants. Gen.1:12, 26.
Man was created before the plants. Gen.2:5-9.

which one to believe?
 
famdigy said:
Strange, the Jewish scripture were very carefully passed down in writing and by word of mouth. yet we don’t have any of the original manuscripts, and further more we have many many discrepancies and contradictions within the current OT

example:
Man was created after the plants. Gen.1:12, 26.
Man was created before the plants. Gen.2:5-9.

which one to believe?
Click to expand...
We don’t have any of the original manuscripts of the Qur’an either. 😉

As for the Genesis passages, there is a third option: these are two different accounts of creation, both written to emphasize different aspects of creation, and neither is meant to be taken literally.
 
SalomeBintullah said:
Just curious…why are you pointing this out? Do you see any significance in the Qur’an calling Pharaoh both king and pharaoh?
Click to expand...
obviously you didn’t read the link…

in the Quran , the king of Egypt during the time of Joesph is called by the title “King”
while the king of the time of Moses is called by the title “Pharaoh” …

The Bible calls both of them by the title “Pharaoh”

this is a historical fact confirmed by Egyptology …that the title “pharaoh” was not used for kings in Joesph’s time
 
Hadi said:
obviously you didn’t read the link…

in the Quran , the king of Egypt during the time of Joesph is called by the title “King”
while the king of the time of Moses is called by the title “Pharaoh” …

The Bible calls both of them by the title “Pharaoh”

this is a historical fact confirmed by Egyptology …that the title “pharaoh” was not used for kings in Joesph’s time
Click to expand...
I’m aware of that, I used to be an Egyptology major. I responded earlier. The book of Genesis, in which the story of Joseph occurs, was written down during the New Kingdom, when the term pr-aa was the norm. The author (who is traditionally believed to have been Moses himself) would therefore have used the word that was most familiar to himself and his audience. That word was pr-aa.
 
SalomeBintullah said:
Ah, I think I see. I guess it never occurred to him that the first five books of the Bible are traditionally believed to have been written down by Moses, who did in fact live during the New Kingdom when the term pr-aa was in use. Therefore it would make perfect sense that he would use the term. 😉 In any case, I believe that Egyptologist K.A. Kitchen addresses this in his excellent book On the Reliability of the Old Testament.

And thanks for the link, by the way. 👍
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link to the book! 👍
 
Eucharisted said:
Thanks for the link to the book! 👍
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No problem. It’s really great - 600 pages, 125 of which are endnotes, illustrations, charts, etc. Kitchen is a professor at the University of Liverpool. The book takes a purely archaeological approach, looking at the Hebrew Bible in “layers” and looking at corresponding layers from excavations in the Near East. It helps to be somewhat familiar with Ancient Near Eastern archaeology. Another book that I hear is good, although it’s still on my “to buy” list, is Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition.
 
SalomeBintullah said:
I’m aware of that, I used to be an Egyptology major. I responded earlier. The book of Genesis, in which the story of Joseph occurs, was written down during the New Kingdom, when the term pr-aa was the norm. The author (who is traditionally believed to have been Moses himself) would therefore have used the word that was most familiar to himself and his audience. That word was pr-aa.
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How did an Arab from the desert in the 7th century know that the title “pharaoh” was not used during Joesph’s time ?? that proves he wasn’t copying the Bible
 
SalomeBintullah said:
We don’t have any of the original manuscripts of the Qur’an either. 😉

As for the Genesis passages, there is a third option: these are two different accounts of creation, both written to emphasize different aspects of creation, and neither is meant to be taken literally.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The lesson is that God created all things out of nothing. He did this in an orderly manner. Man (human beings) was a special part of creation. The accounts of creation are written in the form of a myth.
 
Hadi said:
How did an Arab from the desert in the 7th century know that the title “pharaoh” was not used during Joesph’s time ?? that proves he wasn’t copying the Bible
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, and I’d have to verify this, the word used for the king of Egypt (prior to the use of pr-aa) is nswt, which actually means “lord,” not king.
 
Hadi said:
How did an Arab from the desert in the 7th century know that the title “pharaoh” was not used during Joesph’s time ?? that proves he wasn’t copying the Bible
Click to expand...
In any case, this knowledge may not necessarily have been lost at that time.
 
SalomeBintullah said:
If I remember correctly, and I’d have to verify this, the word used for the king of Egypt (prior to the use of pr-aa) is nswt, which actually means “lord,” not king.
Click to expand...
Correction: nswt literally means “he of the swt-plant [the symbolic plant of Upper Egypt]”. Source

It’s a little off topic, but just FYI.
 
Hadi said:
How did an Arab from the desert in the 7th century know that the title “pharaoh” was not used during Joesph’s time ?? Perhaps many people knew this 1300 years ago. Why should we believe that an angel told him this? Or, if there was an angel, that the angel was from God?

that proves he wasn’t copying the Bible
Even worse, he says that the bible is wrong and we should take his word for that. What good works or miracles did he do that would make us believe that what he says is really from God?
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Hadi said:
An Arab from the desert of the Arabian peninsula knows a bit Egyptology…that’s very impressive of him
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Here’s an answer for you:

"These “facts” were known during the time of Muhammad. The Qur’an did not invent the title of Malik (King). In fact, the Bible uses both “Pharaoh” and “Melek” (the Hebrew term for King) in the story of Joseph (See Genesis 39:20 , 40:1, 40:5, 41:6)! It is also interesting to note that the Bible, unlike the Qur’an, uses both Pharaoh and Melek to refer to the King of Egypt in the account of Moses and the Exodus (see Exodus 6:11 and 13). "

Source: Response to Islamic Awareness: Qur’anic Accuracy vs. Biblical Error: The Kings & Pharaohs of Egypt
 
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