Interfaith Marriage Help

[pensmama87]

I think 1ke’s advice to you was best.

You’re not validly married and this woman is not helping you get to heaven. If a priest knew all that was going on I’m not sure he would even agree to convalidate. There are major problems here.

It may be hard, but with all you’ve written here I think your best option is to separate and then pursue counseling to help you untangle yourself a bit.

Praying for you.

 

[Eliza10]

I think you need counseling. You feel terrible and with good reason, but its complicated. Its confusing because you knew you were entering an interfaith marriage, but yet you say, “I used to imagine us going to *** and holding hands, praying, kneeling, taking the Eucharist, discussing matters of faith…”. That’s confusing. How could you imagine that in your circumstance?

I can’t tell if you are just incompatible or just ruining each other trying to convert each other. There seem to be a lack of courtesy and respect on both sides. As to interfaith marraige, you can learn a lot from Scott and Kimberly Hahn’s book Rome Sweet Home, and also Lynn Norhagen’s book, If Only One Converts. Scott and Kimberly show an excellent example of respecting each others differences throughout the book, even when its heartbreakingly hard to. Nordhagen’s book has a variety of examples of couples having to respect each other’s differences.

But you are in a more complicated situation than just trying to convert each other. You don’t even know if you want to stay married, so you are mixed about convalidating. Does your wife know you are mixed about wanting to stay married? Does she know that in you eyes you are not married, and that you are not willing to stay in this unmarried state, and you are on the fence, and you don’t know which side of the fence you want to end up on?

I can understand not wanting to spend money on counseling, but you are in a serious situation that needs good direction. I really think Gregory Popcak’s online/phone counselors could help you sort this out and they won’t drag it out. They work on a sliding scale and you can even tell them how many sessions you feel should be needed to come to conclusions. You will get good Catholic advice. You really need direction so i think you should go for it - soon. I am pretty sure the first session is free.

God bless you!

 

[jane_doe]

I can understand not wanting to spend money on counseling, but you are in a serious situation that needs good direction. !

Counseling is expensive, but it’s much cheaper than divorce.

 

[Catholic1954]

The Holy Spirit is calling you back to the Catholic Church. Are you going to choose Him or stay in this loveless, invalid marriage? It sounds like your wife is a “kind, caring woman” only when it suits her and she is having her way. She has no intention of keeping her promise to have the marriage convalidated, the one thing that is most important to you. See a priest, then a lawyer and then a doctor about the chest pains.

 

[kptrs]

You are waiting for it to get better. Sorry…it’s not going to. I think your first step is to accept that it’s not going to get any better, which, judging from your posts, I don’t think you have. Once you’ve truly come to the realization that it’s not going to change, go talk to your priest (by yourself, not with your wife), tell him everything you’ve told us (you can even print out your posts and show him), and then do what he tells you to do.

 

[pensmama87]

Counseling is expensive, but it’s much cheaper than divorce.

That’s probably true in most cases, especially where children is involved, but counseling is also not a guaranteed fix. For Catholics, there are so many red flags with this whole situation. That said…

I should probably write a post on this that I can just link back to, because I find myself repeating the information often. Obviously resources differ from place to place, but off the top of my head here are some options to research that can make counseling cost less or even nothing:

• • Check your insurance coverage. It may cover mental health services including talk therapy. Lots of people just assume it’s not covered when it very well may be. You may only be responsible for a copay (for example, in my health plan through my husband’s work, we would pay the same for a counseling session that we would for any visit to a medical specialist. It’s not nothing, but it’s not hundreds of dollars out of pocket, either.)
• • Check if you have an employee assistance program (EAP) through work which offers counseling. Frequently they will cover non-work matters and cover family members. The counseling is still just as confidential as counseling obtained individually or through private insurance would be.
• • Check with Catholic Charities and/or your diocese. They probably maintain a list of referrals even if they don’t offer counseling themselves. If they do offer it, it can be free or reduced cost based on sliding scale.
• • Check with your parish priest as well, who may have convenient options locally, and he may be able to offer some assistance himself (maybe not everything that’s needed, but it’s a start, and most likely if it’s beyond his capacity he’ll know it)
• • If you find or get referred to a private counselor, ask him or her upfront about cost and adjustments for lack of disposable income. Many (not all, but many) will work with you. Most therapists got into their line of work out of a genuine desire to help people. While they need to make a living, they will work with you if you ask.
• • This probably works best if you live in a highly populated area, but look into support groups if individual counseling is hard to find. I know these get advertised in our parish bulletin regularly. If there is a major mental health facility nearby (say a psychiatric hospital in a big city), you can call them and they may very well offer one, or know someone who does.
• • Speaking of which, there are also retreats like Retrovaille that could be very helpful, but your spouse has to agree to attend these and to commit to it. That could be tricky depending on the situation.
• • Barring all that, or if you live in a very rural area (though even then, Google is your friend, you never know who’s running a practice on the second floor above the thrift shop the next town over), there are things such as telecounseling.

My personal opinion, and it is just that, is that many people use the cost of counseling as a convenient excuse to never look for it. For those with anxiety it can be daunting to seek out a service we don’t know much about and reach out to ask for help. I get that, I’ve been there. But most people don’t live in the wilderness and they may very well have more access than they think. Counseling is not just for “worst cases.” There are bad counselors out there, sure, just like there are bad doctors and bad lawyers and the rest of it. But many of us grow up without being taught essential relating skills or healthy methods of coping with the bad stuff that happens to all of us. It is not a sign of weakness to recognize we’re just spinning our wheels over something and to reach out to find a better way.

Whether the OP seeks marriage counseling or not, he’d probably benefit from individual. I don’t know that he should pursue his marriage with this woman any further, but consulting a priest would probably be the best first course of action.

And I’ll probably link to this post, or copy its contents, many, many times in the future.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Counseling is expensive, but it’s much cheaper than divorce.

The Catholic licensed marriage counselor who I know from Church has an hourly fee, but will not turn people away if they can pay less or zero. She asks them to pay what they can, and is a wonderful woman. I suspect she is not alone. In the same way there are plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and more that will work for free through the Church, there are marriage counselors who will accommodate if you inquire enough.

 

[Jose045]

Thank you everyone, so much.

I brought up counseling recently and you would have thought I said we should spend our paychecks on gambling. It immediately became a drama scene with “how can you throw this at me” etc. and that we can;t afford it. Believe me that getting a complete sentence out to explain was impossible.

Let me add that before we got married, when we went to see the priest to start the process (after countless arguments over it) she asked the priest if he could speed up the process. He said no and she didn’t like that. Then she asked that her mom reside with the priest during the marriage because she is a “pastor”. I like her mom and she likes me. Her mom is a wonderful person and we actually get along very well, but she calls her a pastor and she has had no formal training etc. I just don’t get it.
Anyway, after the meeting she drove off enraged after saying that I had given away my individuality to the priest and that she felt raped. She “got over it” in a few days.
A few weeks later I met her near her job to take her lunch. She asked that I get married outside of the Church. I replied that I am Catholic and I must marry in the Church. I asked her why is it a problem if we are just doing it in the chapel and she does not have to convert. The reply I got was “Go to hell!” And she stormed off. She then returned to my vehicle and apologized, but it was disturbing nevertheless.

She hasn’t acted that bad in a while but its still a lot of conflict.

I am working on rescheduling the meeting with the priest before I have to leave. If she still refuses I will meet with him by myself and do what he says.

 

[jane_doe]

It immediately became a drama scene with “how can you throw this at me” etc. and that we can;t afford it.

And can you afford divorce? I’m guessing not.

 

[Eliza10]

That’s probably true in most cases, especially where children is involved, but counseling is also not a guaranteed fix…

That is for sure. My ex and I tried counseling on several occasions. It was quite expensive to go, and it was more destructive than helpful. When it wasn’t expensive - the one time we used counseling from my ex’s work insurance program - it was also useless. Its expensive in money but not only that,* in hope.* And I think that’s more costly when you are at ropes end.

I really think the field of counseling is populated with a lot of people that just want an easy job with NO ACCOUNTABILITY. Because there is no accountability in that field. You can give any bad, stupid, shallow, empty, advice you want and there is no consequence for it - in fact you get paid for your time no matter what destruction you make.

That’s how I honestly feel about counseling and marraige counseling after my experience. I am sure there are good ones out there, but its a real trick to finding them. That’s why I find it of such high value that I found Gregory Popcak’s online/phone counseling, because I got help and clarity there, and I had two sessions! Less money, real help! Kin of amazing. And I think Jose really needs clarity, and I think they will give it to him.

 

[Eliza10]

Jose, I also have to add that although I said it looks like you are disrespecting each other, it might be a case of your having a perfectly normal reaction to a psychologically unwell person. This is something that Popcak’s counseling could help you with - they could clarify if this is in fact the issue pretty quickly, I believe. You said you are going away, so, you could do that on the phone from wherever you are. It could be 3-way phone counseling too if your wife is willing. If she is not willing, fine, its you that really needs their professional advice anyway.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Why is everyone trying to save this “marriage” it is NOT a marriage. 1ke was right. Please stop giving this UNmarried couple marriage advice.

 

[jane_doe]

Why is everyone trying to save this “marriage” it is NOT a marriage. 1ke was right. Please stop giving this UNmarried couple marriage advice.

Do Catholics refuse to acknowledge a legally married man & woman as being married? Particularly when both a baptized Christian, and one is even a Catholic practicing his faith the best he can?

 

[pensmama87]

Do Catholics refuse to acknowledge a legally married man & woman as being married? Particularly when both a baptized Christian, and one is even a Catholic practicing his faith the best he can?

Baptized Catholics have a responsibility to marry in the Church. If that does not occur, no, the marriage is not valid.

Non-Catholics are not under such a requirement.

 

[Jose045]

I will have to look into that counseling by Gregory Popcak. The fact it can be in a three way call is great.

I totally understand we are not validly married. But i think it makes a difference to try and make it valid through the Church and not just walk away.

I want to do everything possible to save this. I love her. She loves me. She may have a problem and if so I want to help her get past it.

But true enough, the status quo cannot continue-it is damaging beyond words.

If we meet with the priest and it does not go well, or if she refuses to, and same thing for counseling, then I can with good conscience make a decision to go our separate way. Until then I believe I have to fight util that end.

I pray it goes the good way.

That you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
Feel free to keep expressing yourselves-it is always good to hear the views of others.

 

[jane_doe]

Baptized Catholics have a responsibility to marry in the Church. If that does not occur, no, the marriage is not valid.

Non-Catholics are not under such a requirement.

So not sacramentally married = not married at all?

 

[pensmama87]

So not sacramentally married = not married at all?

No.

Two baptized Christians have a sacramental marriage. A marriage between non-baptized people or between one baptized and unbaptized person is a natural marriage. Natural marriages are valid.

However, Catholics (and only Catholics) are required to abide by Catholic canon law and get married in the Church or get the appropriate dispensations to be married elsewhere (and to a non-Catholic or non-Christian). The OP did not do that, and so his marriage (from a Catholic point of view) does not exist. If his wife were to agree, he could do what’s called a “convalidation,” and all that means is a Catholic wedding. Typically, convalidations are done without all the bells and whistles of a regular marriage, but it’s the same ceremony and the same vows.

ETA: To clarify, if the OP was Protestant, his marriage would be presumed valid *and *sacramental because both he and his wife are baptized. If he had later decided to become Catholic, it may have caused similar issues to the ones he’s facing, but the presumption would be that his marriage would be valid. It would take an investigation by a marriage tribunal to see if there was some other flaw that would have prevented the marriage from being validly contracted (there’s lots of grounds, but say, for instance, a defect of consent - one person by reason of mental illness could not make the promises of marriage). I’m not a canon lawyer, so I don’t have the whole measure of it.

But since the OP is Catholic, and didn’t marry in the Church, his marriage does not enjoy the presumption of validity, and due to the severity of the issues he’s facing it might not be wise of him to make it so. And his wife has no desire to, either, which means until/unless she does he will be persisting in grave sin, which is a dangerous place for a soul to be. Already he’s so dejected he’s quit practicing and is now committing even more grave sins. Catholics believe that spouses should help each other become holier to help us get to heaven. That is not what’s happening here, not one bit.

 

[jane_doe]

The OP did not do that, and so his marriage (from a Catholic point of view) does not exist. If his wife were to agree, he could do what’s called a “convalidation,” and all that means is a Catholic wedding. Typically, convalidations are done without all the bells and whistles of a regular marriage, but it’s the same ceremony and the same vows.

And what if a person was baptized Catholic as a baby, totally not raised in the church, and then married not in the church?

 

[pensmama87]

And what if a person was baptized Catholic as a baby, totally not raised in the church, and then married not in the church?

That marriage would not be recognized as valid either.

That’s why Catholic parishes are supposed to have a reasonable certainty that any child baptized there will indeed be raised in the faith. But some parents think it’s no big deal, so they make promises for their child they have no intention of keeping to satisfy a relative or because “it’s just what you do.” This is really unjust to the child.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

And what if a person was baptized Catholic as a baby, totally not raised in the church, and then married not in the church?

They are still considered a Catholic. If they are not practicing the faith, then chances are they don’t care how the Church views their marriage. If, on the other hand, they return to the faith as an adult, then they would need to pursue the same avenues for convalidation or annulment, etc. as any other Catholic who finds himself in an irregular marriage situation.