Interpretation of Matt 27:46

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vince2paul

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Matt 27:46
And about three o’clock Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”​

I went for a retreat last weekend with a famous speaker and he talked about this verse. He interpreted it that after Jesus prayed in Gethsemane, he became 100% human (no longer divine) until he died on the cross. God the Father wasn’t able to look at him, because all humans’ sins was contained in Jesus. Since, God the Father is holy, He couldn’t look at the human (Jesus) with all sins in him. Therefore, He left Jesus alone on the cross.

This is not what I understood. From what I’ve heard, Jesus reminded the people around him about Psalms 22, that it wasn’t over yet and he’ll come again (resurrection).

So, what do you think?
 
Your interpretation was correct and Catholic. His is a load of bull.
 
I find your retreat speaker’s interpretation as problematic, to say the least. Is he Catholic?

It is impossible for Jesus to lose His Divinity, His Godhood, because divine nature is immutable, cannot be changed.

And how can all of humanity’s sins be “in” Jesus when Jesus, being divine is absolutely sinless, sin being contrary to His nature. Jesus did not “literally” become sin, or even a sinner. He was however, sacrificed for our sins (Is 53:10) and bore the penalties for our sins and transgressions (Is 53:4-6), all the while remaining free of sin Himself.
 
As a Protestant was exposed to alot of this speculative theology. I think there’s a good motive in trying to invent a way to explain how much Jesus suffered but it’s easy to get carried away. I think the charitable way to take it would be to say “Why yes, it IS incomprehensible that God would die for us” and understand the specifics as poetry to be felt instead of truth to be understood.

And how can all of humanity’s sins be “in” Jesus?
-RobedWithLight
I’m not sure, but since he’s the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, doesn’t that mean that he takes our sins as prefigured by OT sacrifice? I’ve always imagined the sins of the world as a heavy load which he carried on his shoulders – so I’d say they were “on him” but not “in him.”
 
RobedWithLight said:
I find your retreat speaker’s interpretation as problematic, to say the least. Is he Catholic?

It is impossible for Jesus to lose His Divinity, His Godhood, because divine nature is immutable, cannot be changed.

And how can all of humanity’s sins be “in” Jesus when Jesus, being divine is absolutely sinless, sin being contrary to His nature. Jesus did not “literally” become sin, or even a sinner. He was however, sacrificed for our sins (Is 53:10) and bore the penalties for our sins and transgressions (Is 53:4-6), all the while remaining free of sin Himself.
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Well, he is Catholic and he’s been an active speaker since 26 years ago. So he has a very good reputation and many people look up to him and just believe whatever he said. 😦

I’m just fortunate to discover this forum and able to download and listen to CA Live. It’s been a tremendous help in my understanding of Catholic Faith.

Btw, thanks for all replies.
 
vince2paul said:
Well, he is Catholic and he’s been an active speaker since 26 years ago. So he has a very good reputation and many people look up to him and just believe whatever he said. 😦

I’m just fortunate to discover this forum and able to download and listen to CA Live. It’s been a tremendous help in my understanding of Catholic Faith.

Btw, thanks for all replies.
Click to expand...
Your speaker was reiterating a heresy(or something very close to it) that the Church long ago eradicated. I believe this was the heresy of the docetists. If this speaker is teaching false doctrine then he needs to be corrected.
 
DallasCatholic said:
Your speaker was reiterating a heresy(or something very close to it) that the Church long ago eradicated. I believe this was the heresy of the docetists. If this speaker is teaching false doctrine then he needs to be corrected.
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I know, but to some people, especially people with high reputation (well-known Catholic speaker in this case), it’s difficult to correct them, because:
  1. They have reputation, which most likely related to their pride and difficulty accepting correction.
  2. I’m too young and nobody to correct these people (I believe that’s what they think).
For this case, when I talked to him about it, he tried to convince me that he got his explanation when he studied Bible in Rome. Furthermore, he stated that the Catholic Church now emphasizing more on the humanity of Jesus. He even fooled me by saying that Jesus said “My God…” not “My Father,” to emphasize that he’s no longer divine :banghead:

I was confused for awhile, but then it struck me that… of course he should say so, otherwise no one would know that he was talking about Psalms 22 (if he said my father instead of my God). :banghead:
 
Steadfast_love said:
As a Protestant was exposed to alot of this speculative theology. I think there’s a good motive in trying to invent a way to explain how much Jesus suffered but it’s easy to get carried away. I think the charitable way to take it would be to say “Why yes, it IS incomprehensible that God would die for us” and understand the specifics as poetry to be felt instead of truth to be understood.

And how can all of humanity’s sins be “in” Jesus?
-RobedWithLight
I’m not sure, but since he’s the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, doesn’t that mean that he takes our sins as prefigured by OT sacrifice? I’ve always imagined the sins of the world as a heavy load which he carried on his shoulders – so I’d say they were “on him” but not “in him.”
Click to expand...
The words “on Him” rather than “In Him” might be a better substitute in order to emphasize that He is the Sacrifice, without implying that He somehow “sinned” or “became” sin, which is also impossible because only a pure, sinless being can be a worthy offering.
 
vince2paul said:
I know, but to some people, especially people with high reputation (well-known Catholic speaker in this case), it’s difficult to correct them, because:
  1. They have reputation, which most likely related to their pride and difficulty accepting correction.
  2. I’m too young and nobody to correct these people (I believe that’s what they think).
For this case, when I talked to him about it, he tried to convince me that he got his explanation when he studied Bible in Rome. Furthermore, he stated that the Catholic Church now emphasizing more on the humanity of Jesus. He even fooled me by saying that Jesus said “My God…” not “My Father,” to emphasize that he’s no longer divine :banghead:

I was confused for awhile, but then it struck me that… of course he should say so, otherwise no one would know that he was talking about Psalms 22 (if he said my father instead of my God). :banghead:
Click to expand...
You might want to write to the people/organization that sponsored the event, or even to the Bishop of the Diocese where the event was held. If we do not make anyone aware then the heresies will continue to be spread.
 
Take a close look at the phrase quoted and compare it to Psalm 22, if I remember correctly. A pious Jew wants to die with the name of the Most High on his lips so he draws out the beginning phrase of the Psalm. Jesus, the consumate Jew, is reciting a psalm as he dies.

Matthew
 
DallasCatholic said:
You might want to write to the people/organization that sponsored the event, or even to the Bishop of the Diocese where the event was held. If we do not make anyone aware then the heresies will continue to be spread.
Click to expand...
As I explained above, it is quite difficult. People tend to trust him more than me. I’ll try to talk to the organiser.

Besides that, he is from another countries and he has a Catholic non-profit organisation. One of the famous Catholic speaker in his own country and when I told him about it, he has ego that made it difficult for him to accept it. It really worries me, because during the retreat my friend and I could sense that he has the point of view of protestant charismatic. I don’t say that it’s bad, but it’s contrary to the Catholic teaching. Even the retreat was based on Purpose Driven Life book.

I really don’t know what to do except pray that the Holy Spirit will enlighten him. 🙂 Otherwise, it can be very misleading to his future audience.
 
vince2paul said:
As I explained above, it is quite difficult. People tend to trust him more than me. I’ll try to talk to the organiser.

Besides that, he is from another countries and he has a Catholic non-profit organisation. One of the famous Catholic speaker in his own country and when I told him about it, he has ego that made it difficult for him to accept it. It really worries me, because during the retreat my friend and I could sense that he has the point of view of protestant charismatic. I don’t say that it’s bad, but it’s contrary to the Catholic teaching. Even the retreat was based on Purpose Driven Life book.

I really don’t know what to do except pray that the Holy Spirit will enlighten him. 🙂 Otherwise, it can be very misleading to his future audience.
Click to expand...
As long as you do your part by bringing heresy to their attention then you have done the right thing. Whether or not they choose to listen to you will be on their heads. I would suggest having some references from the Catechism or other official teaching to show that Jesus could never have stopped being divine. If they don’t pay attention to the Catechism then they will answer for it before God.
 
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