Interview with Sheikh Hamza Yusuf

[Damascus]

I agree with Valke2 here-
Protestants should not be in this conversation.

as a US citizen, what would I have to fear from a Protestant other than their theology?

 

[pro_universal]

I agree with Valke2 here-
Protestants should not be in this conversation.

as a US citizen, what would I have to fear from a Protestant other than their theology?

Not that long ago, you were systematically discriminated against as a Catholic in America. People died for being Catholic here.

In the UK and Ireland, there’s no question that it’s more an issue of violence between Christians than with Muslims.

 

[Montalban]

Well, the Sheikh says otherwise.

Good for him, if he personally wants to believe it and defy Muhammed, that’s at least a sign of progress

Do you speak for “islam” more officially than he does? Or with a greater understanding of the teachings?

We’ve already gone over your illogical challenges. You challenge people when you also claim that by the very fact that they point out something negative, that they’ve no right to speak on the issue.

Or that all non-Moslems are immediately disqualified from discussing Islam

Still as confused as ever, hey pro_universal?

Or are you calling Sheikh Yusuf a liar?

That would depend on whether he’s making a claim to speak for all Islam, or wishes to develop a newer milder form of Islam.

But then in Islam you are allowed to lie, if it helps the cause.

Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, “You may say it.” … (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

 

[ValiantDomain]

Are you a Moslem? That might seem to clear up things.

No.

 

[Montalban]

Not that long ago, you were systematically discriminated against as a Catholic in America. People died for being Catholic here.

In the UK and Ireland, there’s no question that it’s more an issue of violence between Christians than with Muslims.

Start a thread and show causality

 

[ValiantDomain]

Do you think that the Hadith are equal to the Koran?

Sure. Why not? I don’t follow either one.

 

[pro_universal]

Good for him, if he personally wants to believe it and defy Muhammed, that’s at least a sign of progress

Well, he’s the Sheikh. What makes you more competent to judge Muhammad’s teachings than him?

That would depend on whether he’s making a claim to speak for all Islam, or wishes to develop a newer milder form of Islam.

He says he’s true to the traditional teachings of Islam. Who are you to doubt him?

Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, “You may say it.” … (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

Well, there’s you quoting one source. Who do you think has a better command of the sources and context of those sources in Islam as a whole?

You, or Hamza Yusuf?

Would you please explain why it is you think you can better understand what Islam is than the Sheikh?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Hamza Yusuf is an apologist who is lying to the gullible ‘tolerant’ peoples of the West who do not know Islam.

Hamza Yusuf:
I think it’s (i.e. Islamo-terrorism) secular - you know terrorism to jihad is what adultery is to marriage.

Does Yusuf know Islam better than Muhammad?

Letter from the Messenger of ALLAH (SAW) to the people of Najran (Narrated in Baihaqi):
“In the Name of the God of Ibraheem, Ishaaq, and Ya’qoob, from Muhammad Messenger of Allah to Asqaf of Najran, and the people of Najran: Peace be upon you…
…I call you to the worship of Allah, away from the worship of the slaves (of Allah). And I call you to the governorship of Allah, away from the governorship of the slaves (of Allah). If you refuse, then the Jizyah. If you refuse (that), then I declare war upon you. Wassalam.”

Convert, or pay the jizyah in submission and live downtrodden, or I shall declare war on you.

Now, that is Islamo-terrorism, I say.

More evidence from other Islamic scholars more authoritative than Hamza Yusuf, i.e. real Muslims who are not whitewashing Islam for white folks.

1. Al-Hanafiyah:

It has come in Fath al-Qadeer by Ibn Humaam 5/187: “Al-Jihad: calling the disbelievers to the religion of truth and to fight them if they do not accept.” Al-Kaasaani said in al-Badaa’i’, 9/4299 “To sacrifice ones strength and energy in Fighting in the way of Allah 'Azza wa-Jal with ones life, property and the tongue and whatever besides.”

1. Al-Maalikiyah:

“For a Muslim to fight against a disbeliever who is not under oath, to raise the word of Allah, or if he (disbeliever) is in his (Muslim’s) presence (in order to attack him), or upon his (disbeliever) entering his (Muslim’s) land.” (Haashiya al-'Adawi/as-Sa’eedi 2/2 and ash-Sharh as-Sagheer/Aqrab al-Masaalik by ad-Dardeer 2/267)

1. Ash-Shaafi’iyah:

Al-Baajawari said, “Al-Jihad means: al-Qitaal (fighting) in the way of Allah”, Al-Baajawari / Ibnul-Qaasim 2/261. Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani said in Al-Fath 6/2, “…and legally Jihad means sacrificial striving in fighting the disbelievers.”

1. Al-Hanbaliyah:

“To Fight the disbelievers” see Mataalib Ulin-Nuha 2/497. “Al-Jihad is al-Qitaal (fighting) and to sacrifice all strength in it to raise the Word of Allah”, see 'Umdatul-Fiqh p.166, and Muntahal-Iraadaat 1/302.

Ibn Rushd said in his Muqadamaat 1/369: “…and Jihad of the Sword: to fight the Mushrikeen for the Deen. So whoever tires himself for the sake of Allah, he strove in the way of Allah. Except that when Jihad Feesabeelillah is spoken, then it cannot be applied (to everything) in general except striving against the disbelievers with the sword until they enter Islam, or pay the Jizya with willing submission and they are under humiliation”.

Ibn Hajr said in his explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Fath Al-Bari 6/29: “…and by the phrase Feesabeelillah, Jihad is implied”

allaahuakbar.net/individual_callers/hamza_yusuf/hamza_yusuf_exposes_himself.htm

 

[pro_universal]

Does Yusuf know Islam better than Muhammad?

Do you know Muslim religious beliefs about Muhammad better than Sheikh Yusuf?

Why should anyone accept your interpretation of Muhammad’s teachings as authentic, but reject Sheikh Yusuf’s?

Muslims actually listen to Yusuf. As far as I’m aware, there isn’t a single Muslim on the planet who considers you a religious authority. So who is really telling us what Islam teaches and what Muslims actually believe (as opposed to what you want to think they believe)?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Hamza Yusuf is a PR man for Islam. He is a white convert so they wheel him out so he can speak nicely to other white folks. The fact is that his organization has little authority in Islam and nobody serious in Islam would listen to him.

Is he someone of the stature of Imam Ibn Hajar? No.

Is he someone of the stature of Ibn Rushd? No.

Does he speak for the four schools of jurisprudence in Islam as I have given above? No.

Hamza Yusuf has no more authority than the ustaadh at the local mosque near where I used to live.

Besides, I’m not asking you to believe me or Hamza Yusuf. I’m asking you to choose between Muhammad bin Abdallah himself and Hamza Yusuf?

So the proper question is:
Does Hamza Yusuf know Islam better than Muhammad bin Abdallah?

One would feel that he does not.

 

[pro_universal]

Hamza Yusuf is a PR man for Islam. He is a white convert so they wheel him out so he can speak nicely to other white folks. The fact is that his organization has little authority in Islam and nobody serious in Islam would listen to him.

Can you find anyone who says his teachings are not legitimate? Or that he’s out of touch with Islamic traditions on shariah and any other subject?

Is he someone of the stature of Imam Ibn Hajar? No.

Is he someone of the stature of Ibn Rushd? No.

You mean long dead historical figures? We have to interpret them too. The point is that he’s more of a figure than you in Islam.

Does he speak for the four schools of jurisprudence in Islam as I have given above? No.

Uh, yes. He’s trained in Shariah at traditional sunni academies. He knows them well.

Besides, I’m not asking you to believe me or Hamza Yusuf. I’m asking you to choose between Muhammad bin Abdallah himself and Hamza Yusuf?

No you’re not. You’re asking us to believe your view of Muhammad’s teachings over Sheikh Yusuf’s. You are both using the available sources to compile a complete picture, and draw inferences about today from it.

Now, irrespective of who is right about the history…who is more representative of what Muslims actually believe is required by their faith?

You, or Sheikh Yusuf?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think I’ve personally met more people who would harm me then later claim to be Protestant Christian than I have Muslims who would ever harm me, period.

Then you’ve never been to Saudi Arabia, and you judge Protestants harshly. I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt and I can go to Mass openly and fearlessly. Try that in Saudi Arabia and see what happens to you. I can freelly encourage a Protestant to convert to Catholicism, and the worst thing that will happen is that he will argue with me. Try attempting to convert a Muslim in any Islamic country, and you’ll learn what harm really is. It’s all very well to sit safely in this country and complain about how terrible some Protestants are. But you survived the experience, didn’t you? Try being black in Darfur, or Christian in Southern Sudan in East Timor or in Egypt. Try being a MUSLIM, as a friend of mine is, when he simply went to a wedding in Jordan and an Islamic terrorist explosion blew the head off the young MUSLIM lady next to him.

 

[pro_universal]

I can freelly encourage a Protestant to convert to Catholicism, and the worst thing that will happen is that he will argue with me.

That is not true in some parts of Northern Ireland. I heard of a youngster who was crucified on a fence for having the chutzpah to date a protestant girl (he was Catholic.) Severe beatings and even death would not be out of the question there.

 

[Damascus]

Not that long ago, you were systematically discriminated against as a Catholic in America. People died for being Catholic here.

In the UK and Ireland, there’s no question that it’s more an issue of violence between Christians than with Muslims.

Believe me when I say this Pro- I am willing to die for my faith. I fear not.

But the Protestants hardly scare me. Just their beliefs do.

 

[JMM159]

Hamza Yusuf is an apologist who is lying to the gullible ‘tolerant’ peoples of the West who do not know Islam.

looool
The above qoute of Rodrigo is a classic example of his frustration and helplessness. Poor Rodrigo. May Allah have Mercy on the condition of Rodrigo’s mind…

Why Sheikh Hamza Yusuf will apologise or lie to the whole world about Islam when what Islam teaches is in public for 1400 years? He himself is a revert to Islam.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Can you find anyone who says his teachings are not legitimate? Or that he’s out of touch with Islamic traditions on shariah and any other subject?

Don’t twist my words, pro. You have done this before. I said he is no more authoritative than the local ustaadh at the mosque near where I used to live.

Does Hamza Yusuf speak for Islam? No. He’s just a PR man living in the West, whitewashing Islam for white folks.

pro:

You mean long dead historical figures? We have to interpret them too. The point is that he’s more of a figure than you in Islam.

Hey, isn’t Muhammad also a long dead historical figure?

What makes you think what those authoritative Imams said is no longer true? Has there been a change in the meaning of Jihad? If so, where is the evidence?

All you do is bring some whitewashing Shaykh and try to hoodwink us that what he says represents Islam.

pro:

Uh, yes. He’s trained in Shariah at traditional sunni academies. He knows them well.

So too do the following Shaykhs:

Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi: “It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar al-Harb is not protected … in modern war, all of society, with all its classes and ethnic groups, is mobilised to participate in the war, to aid its continuation and to provide it with the material and human fuel required for it to assure the victory of the state fighting its enemies.”

Shaykh Dr. Abdullah Yusuf Azzam:
"Jihad Against the Kuffar is of two Types: Offensive Jihad (where the enemy is attacked in his own territory) … [and] Defensive Jihad. This is expelling the Kuffar from our land, and it is Fard Ayn [personal religious obligation on Muslim individuals], a compulsory duty upon all…

So too do the Imams of the 4 schools of jurisprudence I quoted above.

pro:

No you’re not. You’re asking us to believe your view of Muhammad’s teachings over Sheikh Yusuf’s. You are both using the available sources to compile a complete picture, and draw inferences about today from it.

I don’t ask you to believe my view of Muhammad’s teachings.

I gave you a direct (summarized) quote of Muhammad’s teachings. Read the letter to Najran - those are not my words but Muhammad’s - as issued by an Islamic website.

pro:

Now, irrespective of who is right about the history…who is more representative of what Muslims actually believe is required by their faith?

You, or Sheikh Yusuf?

I have told you before it’s a question of choosing between Muhammad bin Abdallah and Sheikh Hamza Yusuf.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

looool
The above qoute of Rodrigo is a classic example of his frustration and helplessness. Poor Rodrigo. May Allah have Mercy on the condition of Rodrigo’s mind…

Why Sheikh Hamza Yusuf will apologise or lie to the whole world about Islam when what Islam teaches is in public for 1400 years? He himself is a revert to Islam.

It’s because Islam is an evil cult and Hamza Yusuf is trying to hoodwink the white folks of the US that it is not an evil cult. Muslims who are unashamed of their religion freely admit that Islam was spread by violence - see Ibn Khaldun for instance.

Don’t believe me? How about believing Caliph Umar, who after all, did know Muhammad and learnt Islam from him. So who is more authoritative - one of the Righteous Caliphs and faithful long-time companion of Muhammad, or a white convert who’s out to whitewash Islam for the white folks?

 

[pro_universal]

It’s because Islam is an evil cult and Hamza Yusuf is trying to hoodwink the white folks of the US that it is not an evil cult. Muslims who are unashamed of their religion freely admit that Islam was spread by violence - see Ibn Khaldun for instance.

Don’t believe me? How about believing Caliph Umar, who after all, did know Muhammad and learnt Islam from him. So who is more authoritative - one of the Righteous Caliphs and faithful long-time companion of Muhammad, or a white convert who’s out to whitewash Islam for the white folks?

Well, who is more credible as a representative of Islam and what it teaches?

You, or Yusuf?

Where’s that evidence that Yusuf is regarded as illegitimate or not an authority by other Muslims?

Your problem is that you can’t see the difference between your own phoney construction of Islamic teachings, and what Muslims themselves believe the teaching is. Actual histories and “real truth” aside, what matters most here is what Muslims think Islam commands, not what you think it commands.

And Muslims follow people like Sheikh Yusuf. You are not someone Muslims find credible on Islamic teaching.

The fact that you think Muslims are involved in a billion man conspiracy to fool the rest of us just shows how truly delusional and extreme your views are.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

pro:

Well, who is more credible as a representative of Islam and what it teaches?

You, or Yusuf?

Am I a representative of Islam? No. I am only asking everyone to decide if they would believe Muhammad bin Abdallah or Hamza Yusuf? Why can’t you understand that?

It is not I who is saying ‘fight the infidels if they don’t want to believe in Allah or pay the Jizyah in submission.’ I didn’t say that. Muhammad bin Abdallah did.

pro:

Where’s that evidence that Yusuf is regarded as illegitimate or not an authority by other Muslims?

Uh… show me where I said Yusuf is regarded as illegitimate or not an authority by other Muslims?

I said he’s not as authoritative as some other Imams, and he’s no way as authoritative as Muhammad.

pro:

Your problem is that you can’t see the difference between your own phoney construction of Islamic teachings, and what Muslims themselves believe the teaching is. Actual histories and “real truth” aside, what matters most here is what Muslims think Islam commands, not what you think it commands.

I don’t teach Islam, bud. I merely show the evidence from Islamic theological sources and expose the lies of people like Hamza Yusuf.

pro:

And Muslims follow people like Sheikh Yusuf. You are not someone Muslims find credible on Islamic teaching.

The fact that you think Muslims are involved in a billion man conspiracy to fool the rest of us just shows how truly delusional and extreme your views are.

Who said anything about conspiracy? The average knowledgeable Muslim understand what jihad is. It is only the apologists like Hamza Yusuf who whitewash Islam for the white folks.

Read about Ibn Khaldun - who unashamedly tell us what jihad means. Read the definition of jihad from the 4 schools of fiqh - are they not contradicting Yusuf? Who are we to believe? The fiqh masters or some latter-day white Muslim convert apologists?

Here I will leave with the words of Muhammad himself so that people can decide who is telling the truth: Muhammad bin Abdallah or Hamza Yusuf:

Sunnah Muslim Book 019, Number 4294
Book 019, Number 4294:

It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai’ except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers).

**If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. **

When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah’s Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah’s behest with regard to them.

I don’t know about you, pro, but I would not like to convert to Islam nor do I wish to pay the Jizyah and live downtrodden like a dhimmi - so I guess you, as a Muslim, will have to fight (qatiloo) me.

Oh… the name of the chapter in Sahih Muslim where this hadith comes from is:

The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wa’l-Siyar)

Surprising eh?

 

[pro_universal]

Am I a representative of Islam? No. I am only asking everyone to decide if they would believe Muhammad bin Abdallah or Hamza Yusuf? Why can’t you understand that?

It is not I who is saying ‘fight the infidels if they don’t want to believe in Allah or pay the Jizyah in submission.’ I didn’t say that. Muhammad bin Abdallah did.

And students of Islam say that to use this quote generally is to take it out of context and misread the meaning. At least, that’s what Sheikhs say.

So again, even if you disagree, the point is that Muslims do not agree with your picture of Muhammad’s teaching.

Uh… show me where I said Yusuf is regarded as illegitimate or not an authority by other Muslims?

I said he’s not as authoritative as some other Imams, and he’s no way as authoritative as Muhammad.

He’s much more authoritative on Muhammad’s life and teachings that you are with respect to Muslims. Your problem is that you are treating historical figures and texts that need to be interpreted as concrete, obvious documents.

They aren’t, and the best you can do is make a read of them to try and gather the correct teachings. Sheikh Yusuf does this in a way that Muslims find credible; you do not.

Who said anything about conspiracy? The average knowledgeable Muslim understand what jihad is. It is only the apologists like Hamza Yusuf who whitewash Islam for the white folks.

Well, how come not a single Muslim on this board agrees that you are accurately representing Islam’s teachings? And how come you call anyone who disagrees with you a “muslim liar”?

Of course you’re alleging a conspiracy theory. You have your own idea of what Islam is, and you accuse anyone who says you are wrong about Islam of being part of the conspiracy. That makes you a delusional extremist, a lot like the people who claimed Jews had a 20 million man conspiracy.

Read the definition of jihad from the 4 schools of fiqh - are they not contradicting Yusuf? Who are we to believe? The fiqh masters or some latter-day white Muslim convert apologists?

You’re wrong about the teachings of the four Imams. Hamza Yusuf is a student of their work; you are not. His teaching is based on studies of their works; yours is based on a few quotes you pulled from the net.

Here I will leave with the words of Muhammad himself so that people can decide who is telling the truth: Muhammad bin Abdallah or Hamza Yusuf:

And you will have missed the point again.

Your rag-tag collection of quotes from here and there is your own representation of Islam. It’s an interpretation. But it only represents what you think Islam is, not what Muslims think it is.

So, again, if someone wnats to know what Muslims believe, they should look to a Sheikh who knows the sources and can explain the teaching. Looking to some guy who cuts and pastes quotes from answering-islam.org for information on Islam is just ludicrous.