Intrigued by Catholicism, but just can't convert for many reasons

[etomaria]

• In general, why are Catholic churches so dead and boring? Isn’t the faith “more alive” in a Protestant church? I appreciate that Protestant churches have more entertaining music, are more welcoming, will say hi to you if you’re new, and will ask you to fill out a welcome card so they can get back to you! Even if it’s annoying and in your face, it at least shows they care! Where are the people that care in a Catholic church, besides the nuns (many which give me platitudes of advice when I talk to them)? I just get the sense that the Catholic faith is so personal, but why can’t Catholics get involved with the lives of others, form small groups, and talk about faith with each other? I get the sense that there’s a disconnect between priests and nuns and laypeople, because they live a life of cloistered study. Where are the laypeople that care and I can talk about faith with?

I gotcha on this one, as much as I’d rather not admit it, ha… I was active-duty military for almost ten years, didn’t have a “home” church (after attending the same church my whole childhood/teenage period), but was vaguely looking for one… this was my constant complaint. People weren’t welcoming, or it didn’t seem it, they didn’t seem to notice the new person except to awkwardly call them out to stand at the end of mass sometimes to clap for them (why!?), there didn’t seem to be a social side, in the even you preferred socializing with other Catholics to those you met at work or wherever…

So. I think the problem all that time was me. I do think that parishes vary greatly from one to the next, but all the elements neccesary are generally there – people, and a common goal/mindset/common values… More often than not, there are these groups, there are moms’ groups, men’s groups, religious ed programs, Bible studies, small groups, etc… You just need to be diligent, you need to grab the bulletin after mass, ask the priest about it, actually go to get donuts and make the effort to talk to someone, show up at one of the events mentioned at the end of mass/in the bulletin/on the parish website… All else fails, search out the Knights of Columbus chapter, and ask them what’s up in the particular church you’re attending… they seem to have a penchant for talking, and should have atleast a vague knowledge. And they’ll know when their pancake breakfasts are, go to one of those! Or, if you’re lucky, maybe yours’ll have Lenten fish fries on Fridays, those are awesome, I wish we had more than ONE a year up here… Ah, Michigan… ;]

I know it’s easier when other people approach you, but I think a difference between Catholics and Protestants (yes, I’m generalizing) is that Catholics tend to leave you be, so as to let you pick your own pace, whereas Protestants are all about having you do what they want, be it with the incessant interrogations about Mary/the Eucharist/the Pope/confession/what have you, or with their invitations to church services or Bible studies. Not sure why that is. But each has their plusses/minuses, for sure…

• In general I just don’t see Catholics practicing their faith, the way Protestants do. The Catholic Church does have the edge intellectually, but why doesn’t that translate into a growing, vibrant church? All I see is a moribund, boring church with inconsistency in the beliefs among members. In fact, Catholics who convert to Protestantism complain that the Catholic Church is just a bunch of rote rituals with no meaning. Maybe they need to stop sticking to tradition just to stick to it, adopt more contemporary worship, be more welcoming, and not be so politically involved, so they can convert the younger generation??

I don’t know why I separated this paragraph, but my response is the above one ^^

Sorry this is long and unfocused, but my mind is in such conflict about all areas of Catholicism. The Catholic Church has such potential, but right now Protestant churches have the edge in how “alive” their faith is. I just don’t see Catholics stepping up. Why don’t the bishops just excommunicate people left and right anymore? I do need to figure out where my faith is gonna turn next, so I appreciate your help.

Long and unfocused is my style too! :]

The “alive” is nice, yes. But you’ll have to determine for yourself how authentically alive what you’re referring to is, versus how hyped up it is for show’s sake, first of all. Second, I’d look to GOOD Catholics as examples, not just any, or even slightly-better-than-good. Because the GOOD ones are who’ll show you what you’re getting into… I mean, all else fails (or even first thing, for that matter!), read the lives of some of the more recent saints! I’m not discounting saints’ life stories or older saints’ stories, just thinking maybe more recent would be more relevant to you as a not-yet Catholic. ;]

The excommunication thing is probably due to the way things tend to be in the day and age, it’s just not appropriate. It may or may not have been back in the day, maybe the Church needed that hard-nosed stance. Maybe it DOES need it today, but I think the last couple popes have taken a softer stance, which has its benefits. I personally like it better. Although I do sometimes wish they’d just kick some out, ha… But I do think the idea is to include ALL, as we’re all far from perfect, and meet everyone where they’re at, rather than demanding a certain level of perfection to get in the door… and that’s always good. Cuz I’m sure I haven’t been above that bar many times… If I ever have been…

 

[etomaria]

Just noticed I have about 86 typos or weirdly-worded parts. Will fix later when not sleepy…

Also, may I recommend what struck me as a great book? “Catholic Matters” by (Father) Richard John Neuhaus. He was formerly, I believe, Lutheran… anyway, great comments+great analysis+great writing style, just a good book overall. And many of these things are addressed in it. AND, it’s on kindle, if you’re a fan of that. I love real books, but I like the convenience of being able to have them on my phone constantly with me as well, so that’s a plus for me!

Allllllllrite, weird kindle tangents mean time to sleep…

Hope all my typo-full rambling was helpful atleast in some small way!

-Maria

 

[Ginkgo100]

For the past few years I’ve been more and more intrigued by the Catholic Church. I like the intellectual edge it has, and its claim to be the original that Jesus founded. But the more I look into it and ask around, the more I get confused.

It sounds like you are ready for RCIA Inquiry, a non-commital way to get questions answered and puzzle over difficulties. It doesn’t mean you’ve decided to become Catholic necessarily but that you’re drawn to the Church for some reason.

• The Vatican says we should vote against gay marriage and abortion rights. The Vatican says one cannot be pro-choice and Catholic. But I can always find another liberal parish that disagrees.

“Pro-choice” is a political position and one that in most people’s opinion (including mine and those of most/all of the bishops) is not consistent with the morality of abortion. There are of course Catholics with other opinions because the Church is a hospital of sinners, not a museum of saints.

• Why should the Church continue to hold such positions, then?

Because it is true. The Church is not a democracy. She can’t do anything else except teach the truth, popular or not.

• Since so many Catholics disagree with the Vatican, doesn’t that make the Church less effective? Shouldn’t the Catholic Church just tolerate political dissent like the Protestant churches, and not advocate any political position in particular? Why are abortion, gay marriage, cloning, euthanasia, and (I forgot the other) such immutable issues for Catholics? … But aren’t civil rights important?

It is about the truth. Jesus is effective no matter what the ever-changing politics of a society. The Protestant denominations that have taken an “accommodationist” approach have declined because one of the reasons to go to church is to be where people stand for the truth. The Protestant denominations that have stuck to their guns, mainly Evangelical churches, are much stronger.

Civil rights are not only important, it’s an absolute moral duty to pursue legitimate civil rights. But there is no God-given right to do immoral things. That would be an oxymoron: how could God give people license to something He has forbidden? Murder, suicide, artificial reproductive tech, and homosexual acts are all immoral, so there can be no “right” to do them.

-Protestant churches are okay with political diversity because they know it’s secondary to the main mission of preaching the Gospel. Politics doesn’t save us after all, right?

The Church isn’t aiming at saving us through the political process. She’s aiming at shaping society so that more souls can be saved. The political process affects society, so peripherally the Church has an interest there, but it’s all about saving souls through Jesus Christ.

• For every worship-related reason why the Catholic Church is so great I can always find a reason to counter that. For example, some love the liturgy, but others cannot get anything out of the old liturgical style of worship, because it’s just empty rituals to them. And why should communion be reserved to only Catholics, isn’t that offensive? And if confession is so important why do most people not do it, and live a life of “Catholic guilt”?

Liturgy is about God, not about us. What people “get out of” the liturgy is not so important as what they bring to the liturgy. And if the liturgy seems empty or meaningless, they can bring that to it. Offer it to God, saying that they don’t “get” it or it’s not their cup of tea, but out of love they do it anyway.

Communion is reserved to Catholics because in Communion, we are all united with Christ—but non-Catholics are not fully united to Catholics. To give Communion to people who are not fully united to the Catholic Church would be a lie. In the same vein, Catholics are not supposed to take Communion in other denominations because it would be a lie.

As for why more people don’t go to Confession, your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps they don’t realize how awesome it is. But quite a few people DO take advantage of Confession.

• In general, why are Catholic churches so dead and boring? Isn’t the faith “more alive” in a Protestant church?

I can’t answer that because my own parish is quite lively and the Holy Spirit is clearly active there. So I don’t have experience to go on. Maybe where you see it, it has to do with the fact that many people are “cultural” Catholics without a commitment to Christ. That’s the downside of having a Catholic culture such as you have in New Mexico. If you want lively and contemporary, try a youth-oriented Mass. If you REALLY want lively, check out a Catholic charismatic community! You can also look for some faith-filled movements, such as Cursillo and ACTS. If they aren’t in your area, there probably is something similar. They are great for building community and discussing the faith.

• In general I just don’t see Catholics practicing their faith, the way Protestants do.

A lot of Protestants don’t practice their faith, including many of the ones in my family. You can find on-fire people and lukewarm people in any faith community.

I have to continue this in a second post because this one is too long and I can’t cut it down enough…

 

[Ginkgo100]

(Continued)

In fact, Catholics who convert to Protestantism complain that the Catholic Church is just a bunch of rote rituals with no meaning. Maybe they need to stop sticking to tradition just to stick to it, adopt more contemporary worship, be more welcoming, and not be so politically involved, so they can convert the younger generation??

Entertainment won’t “convert” the younger generation; the work of the Holy Spirit will do that. And I think we are seeing signs that that is going on. There are so many new movements in the Church that do what you are asking. I already mentioned a couple. Look at the culture surrounding Franciscan University at Steubenville, or John Paul the Great University. Look at what goes on at World Youth Day. By proclaiming the uncompromised gospel of Jesus Christ, the Church is attracting on-fire youth (and the young at heart) and inflaming the hearts of the apathetic. You are guaranteed to hear the worst you can hear about a group from members who quit, and I would invite you to hear the other view from Catholics who love their faith. Personally I LOVE being Catholic and I can’t imagine leaving the Church’s riches behind for anything.

May God bless you, and I will be praying for you.

 

[eddie_too]

calilobo,

re: your 654 pm post yesterday.

there is difference between having the power to do something and having the right to do something.

for a catholic, it is incomprehensible to say anyone has a right to sin. it is equally incomprehensible to say no one has the power to sin.

although the distinction between power and right may seem inconsequential and shallow at first, i believe after further contemplation you will come to understand that the difference is essential and vital to a well-ordered society.

because a person can do something does not make what that person can do right.

exercising the free will almighty God gives to every human being contrary to God’s commands and laws is the essence of a sinful act.

where do we go to learn God’s commands and laws? it seems to me, that questions is the essence of your inability to comprehend the differences between catholicism and all other religions.

catholics believe that only the roman catholic church contains the true and total deposit of faith God has made available to mankind.

based on your comments, you have not yet been granted that catholic faith by almighty God. however, if you persevere in your search for truth, i strongly believe, and hope and pray, God will grant you the gift of faith and bring you in to full communion with His Church.

 

[eddie_too]

calilobo,

the concept of civil rights in the catholic church do not necessarily coincide with the concept of civil rights as used in a secular society.

for the catholic church the only valid concept of civil rights (perhaps human rights is a better phrase in this context) requires that these rights correspond to natural and divine law.

for secular society, far more often the concept of civil rights means what those with the most worldy power define them to be. for example, the definition of civil rights in china is quite different from the definition of civil rights in the usa.

again, the difference between what the catholic church calls civil rights and what secular society calls civil rights is essential to understanding the interaction between the church and secular society.

 

[guanophore]

 Another common argument--the desire to maintain traditions, or teachings that supposedly originate from Jesus' time.

But isn’t it true that today’s Catholic traditions are NOT the same as those in Jesus’ time, or the book of Acts? If that’s true (the probability is it most certainly is true), then what’s the big point of sticking to “tradition”?

No, Sacred Tradition is the Word of God alive at work in the Church. It is imutable (cannot be changed).

Yes there are human traditions that can, and do, change over time, but the Word of God lasts forever.

 Also, where does it say that we MUST continue to practice these traditions?

The Apostles have commanded us to maintain the Sacred Tradition just as it has been handed down to us.

1 Cor 11:2

2 I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

Surely you don’t think the apostle is talking here about human customs!?

2 Thess 2:15
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

Sacred Tradition is equal to Sacred Scripture, and we are commanded to hold firmly to both.

The better question might be, where are we told do “STOP” holding firm to them, maintaining them?
CaliLobo;10134372:

 Is it a mortal sin to make changes?

Yes. Human customs can change, but the Word of God should not be tampered with, whether it is in writing or by word of mouth.

What’s so wrong about changing the liturgy, or not asking for prayers from Mary or the saints, or confessing directly to Jesus, or having lay people minister, or removing statues, among many other things?

The liturgy is to be preserved as it was handed down to us from the Apostles. The faithful have a right to correct liturgy. No one, even the priest is allowed to alter it.

One need not ask for prayers from anyone, but this might be a sign of spiritual arrogance.

Of course we are to confess our sins directly to Jesus, as soon as we are convicted of them by the HS. Of course we confess our sins at every Mass, and go to Jesus in the confessional.

There are many roles for lay ministers.

A statue is not a requirement.

After all, Protestantism only arose because the Catholic Church was dropping the ball and abusing these traditions.

I think there is a lot more to the Reformation than these minor things, but it is true that there were many abuses that were part of it.

 

[Stephen168]

Also I believe a poster asked who determines what civil rights are. Good question. Do rights really come from God, like US conservatives say? If so, then what gives us the right to deny rights to others? And if they don’t come from God, then why does it matter and why does the Catholic Church care so much?

Human Rights come from God. Civil Rights come from government. It is wrong to deny anyone their human rights. Human rights are: life, liberty, free to have and raise children with the person of your choice, free to pursue your happiness, and the right to be raised by your own biological parents.

Rights of gays to marry and adopt children, rights of women to choose what to do with their bodies, rights of people to gain access to contraception through their employer (USA) or government (outside the USA), right to end life, etc.

Justice is allowing your neighbor to have their life, liberty, stuff, and pursuit of happiness; their human rights. The Church supports human rights, but your list is not a list of human rights. Your list includes things which are not just. The Church does not support injustice.

 

[nishkalank]

I understand that you are on your journey seeking the Truth. Yes the innocent heart will find the Truth in course of time. Jesus said that no one can come to him unless the Father directs him to Jesus. That means the faith is a gift from God the Father.We may then ask why the Father directs only some. As a human being I am unable to give a rational answer for this. But I believe that God sees and listens the individual’s heart and he who is interested in saving all the souls know the best way for it. God knows everyone intimately and his judgement on the soul is as per his scale of measurement
I would like to advise you that you shall not go by the words of some so called catholics. The official views and teachings of the Church must be studied before commenting or accepting anything on any issue. As a seeker of Truth have full faith in the divinity of Jesus and his Sonship. And also that He intended to spread his message to all on this earth, he established a Church for the same and appointed his disciples to carry on the message till the end of the world. And so the Church through its Sheperds is doing the work. The fact that some of the sheperds may be driving a wrog road or teaching a different way does not make the real Church immoral, illegal

         Please pray and approach all your doubtful issues. God will show the way if you approach him in humility. I shall pray for your discerment. God bless

Nishkalank K.

 

[guanophore]

Not all non-Catholics believe it to be symbolic only. Wherever I were to partake, I, for one, would believe it is truly the blood and body of Christ. What if this is not the doctrinal consensus of my ‘Club’? And I’d really like to receive Him, at least once before I die, and I probably will die before completing the Catholic requirements to join. I am hard pressed to believe that Jesus would say, under any circumstances, “sorry, you are not a member.” I am not being harsh to you, by the way; I really want to know what to do. I am truly stuck in the middle. So much so that I cannot think how to explain to you how I feel. I cannot help but go back to the words of Christ that I cannot quote exactly right now. “Love”

…“Give me the supreme confidence of Love, this is my prayer - the confidence that belongs to life in death, to victory in defeat, to the power hidden in the frailest beauty, to that dignity in pain which accepts hurt but disdains to return it.”

~R Tagore

Under special circumstances such as this the priest is able to make exceptions.

 

[jmcrae]

Rights of gays to marry and adopt children,

And what about the child’s civil right to be raised in a safe environment? Children are not commodities - they’re human beings.

rights of women to choose what to do with their bodies,

Anyone can choose not to have sex, if they don’t feel ready to give birth to children. They don’t have to wait until the child has been conceived, and then brutally murder her in a “surgical operation” in which she is torn limb from limb, and then finally her little head is crushed flat, to make sure she is really dead. And then they all pretend that she was a “lump of tissue.”

rights of people to gain access to contraception through their employer (USA) or government (outside the USA),

Contraception is the ultimate recreational drug - nobody needs it for survival. You only need it to have recreational sex.

right to end life, etc.

No one has ever had the “right” to kill someone else. Even the Romans at their very worst never allowed suicide or the murder of the elderly. (Caligula once murdered a boy for having a persistent cough, but even the most hedonistic Romans disapproved of it.)

Also I believe a poster asked who determines what civil rights are. Good question. Do rights really come from God, like US conservatives say? If so, then what gives us the right to deny rights to others?

No one has the “right” to kill their own child, or anyone else’s child.

And if they don’t come from God, then why does it matter and why does the Catholic Church care so much?

These are literally matters of life and death. It’s not like picking the colour of your socks, to be pro-abortion or pro-life. How many doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, and best friends have been brutally torn to pieces and then tossed into the toxic waste chute, before they ever had the chance to catch their first breath?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Cheezey,

I have no doubt as to your sincerity. But, when you say…

“For Catholics, AND ME, a Catholic hopeful, Holy Communion is a living encounter with Jesus Christ.”

You need to honestly move past being the ‘…hopeful…’ or you will simply stay in place. And, by the way, none of us are guaranteed the rest of this day on earth - so any idea of ‘…making it to Easter…’ simply makes no real sense to me. Honest - “If today you hear His voice - harden not your heart” has genuine meaning. While it may be dramatic to envision someone with folded arms and a scowl that would curdle vinegar screaming at God, “My heart has been hardened! It took a while - but, I have accomplished this mighty but perverse task!” N-a-a-a-w-w-w-w - that’s not what happens. Rather, we come up with all of these truly insignificant objections and not finding the answer we have pre-crafted as acceptable - we just don’t get around to it! And, that is the way we face God - having procrastinated our way away from God’s Church.

Another interesting set of parables can be found in Matthew 25 (here is a link:veritasbible.com/drb/compare/haydock/Matthew_25 ). Here we find different groups of people who did not get around to doing the right thing, either. I am partial to the 5 foolish virgins. Here are these 5 gals who are pounding on the door after-the-fact and the Bridegroom DOES NOT SAY, “Aw, you were pretty good girls anyway, come on in!” Nope. The Bridegroom leaves them out of the Party and says He does not know them! The message here is crystal clear - we only have so much time to get our act together by using the Grace of God. And, while God is patient, He will not be made a Fool. Death really does, “…come as a thief in the night”!

In my view, it is perfectly realistic to look at CAF as a genuine Grace of God that, using the key strokes of humans, talks to the heart of those who want to listen. The very fact you are on this listserve says positive things about you - but, it will take more then that - and you are really the only one who can open your heart to God’s Grace of Conversion as you move closer to the Church He founded on Peter (not on Luther, or Calvin, or Henry VIII or any one else who refused to have faith in Christ that He could guide His Church from the hands of openly sinful shepherds!) Those in revolt - revolted from Christ - not the pope at the time of their revolt. That is the take home message - just who do you put your faith in?

I realize that there is more to your post then this one quote that I used – but, honestly, I think this sums up the crux of the problem. None of us can have Christ on our terms. We are called to have Christ on His Terms. Christ gave us the Catholic Church to guide genereation after generation to Him, throught changing times and different types of persecutions - to give guidance to our complex world so that we can all follow Christ more closely.

God bless

 

[tqualey]

Hi, CaliLobo,

Interesting.

One can almost see Christ as the Apostles are rebuking the women who want to bring their children to Him saying something like, “Hey, I’ve had a hard day - and universal contraception will certainly take care of these numbers - and, for contraceptive failures, universal abortion is the answer. God 'hard-wired women to bring life into the world - but, relax - having those young lives snuffed out as their bodies are torn apart, limb by limb is surely a right that trumps God’s Right through Pro-Creation!” Yes, one can almost see it now… at least if you listen to the Abortionists and their governmental puppets.

All rights come from God. And, it you have trouble with that statement, if you do not think this is a self-evident statement - a ‘given’, then just check out this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence

God is neither a Democrat or a Republican. Over the course of time, many have tried to pin a political affiliation on Him - but, it has never worked. But, this does not means that political organizations are devoid of any merit. Look for what most closely conforms to the Will of God - and pick pro-life as one issue, and then see who follows this most closely. Chances are, this is something to consider the next time you engage your RCIA Instructor in a dialogue on what we as Catholics are all about.

God bless

Rights of gays to marry and adopt children, rights of women to choose what to do with their bodies, rights of people to gain access to contraception through their employer (USA) or government (outside the USA), right to end life, etc.

Also I believe a poster asked who determines what civil rights are. Good question. Do rights really come from God, like US conservatives say? If so, then what gives us the right to deny rights to others? And if they don’t come from God, then why does it matter and why does the Catholic Church care so much?

Btw, the RCIA instructor told me that people confuse the Catholic Church with Catholic political organizations…

 

[cheezey]

Hi, Cheezey,

I have no doubt as to your sincerity. But, when you say…

You need to honestly move past being the ‘…hopeful…’ or you will simply stay in place. And, by the way, none of us are guaranteed the rest of this day on earth - so any idea of ‘…making it to Easter…’ simply makes no real sense to me. Honest - “**If today you hear His voice - harden not your heart” **…Rather, we come up with all of these truly insignificant objections and not finding the answer we have pre-crafted as acceptable - we just don’t get around to it! And, that is the way we face God - having procrastinated our way away from God’s Church.

…The message here is crystal clear - we only have so much time to get our act together by using the Grace of God. And, while God is patient, He will not be made a Fool. **Death really does, “…come as a thief in the night”! **

In my view, it is perfectly realistic to look at CAF as a genuine Grace of God that, using the key strokes of humans, talks to the heart of those who want to listen. The very fact you are on this listserve says positive things about you - but, it will take more then that - and you are really the only one who can open your heart to God’s Grace of Conversion as you move closer to the Church He founded on Peter …or any one else who refused to have faith in Christ that He could guide His Church from the hands of openly sinful shepherds! Those in revolt - revolted from Christ - not the pope at the time of their revolt. That is the take home message - just who do you put your faith in?

I realize that there is more to your post then this one quote that I used – but, honestly, I think this sums up the crux of the problem. None of us can have Christ on our terms. We are called to have Christ on His Terms. Christ gave us the Catholic Church to guide genereation after generation to Him, throught changing times and different types of persecutions - to give guidance to our complex world so that we can all follow Christ more closely.

God bless

I am always hopeful. Do not wish to stay in one place unless that is His will. “none of us are guaranteed the rest of this day on earth - so any idea of ‘…making it to Easter…’ simply makes no real sense to me.” It might if you knew of my timely medical issues, to which I have alluded. From hearing Him, my heart is not at all, or ever has been, hardened.There are no objections, there are significant but jumpable (yeah, I know, not a real word) obstacles, obstacles that I cannot humanly jump alone. According to the Catholic Church, I need a mediator and I seek that. But if I can’t get to any priest and none (there are not many, BTW), return contact with me, what am I to do? The answer in this case is not pre-crafted; He knows better than I what I need; I am simply following, or I wouldn’t be here, going to Mass as a guest, making inquiries, etc., etc. I have not procrastinated, I have discovered a more direct path (which began in the Catholic Church very recently )and desire to follow the discovery He has given me.

May death truly come in the night. From the the weak and fragile human standpoint, this is good thing.

CAF is a but a medium. (And a good one); I know that, and the fact that more is needed. Bunches more. I need and want Him.“open your heart to God.” That I did a very long time ago…
“just who do you put your faith in?” Jesus.
I do not expect Christ on my terms. I expect Him on God’s. And I am listening intently.

I am fairly sure that I understand what you have advised (sometimes my head just hurts too much to focus as needed) and I am grateful. Forgive me if my reply seems otherwise. I took my thoughts one by one from the words that most stood out from your post.

In the end, literally and figuratively, it is, and always will be, God, Who stands above me, Jesus, Who stands aside me (and sometimes carrying me), and the Holy Spirit, Who Lives within me. I am wholeheartedly fine with that…If He has been wondering about that, (I am sure you know what I mean by that!), if this has been a test from whom- or whatever to give up, ain’t happening. In the end, it’ll just be me, answering to Him. He will do what needs to be done. He will still love me.

Again, thank you.

In Christ with blessings

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Cheezey,

Sorry …I missed it. I did not pick up on a specific about any serious health problems - I just thought this was a general comment.

My wife and I will be keeping you in our prayers.

While I do not know anything involving a mediator - and, it is none of my business - it is possible that the Moderator knows or knows someone who does - and can put you in touch with someone that that can provide the help you are looking for.

God bless and may you and yours have a very Blessed Christmas

I am always hopeful. Do not wish to stay in one place unless that is His will. “none of us are guaranteed the rest of this day on earth - so any idea of ‘…making it to Easter…’ simply makes no real sense to me.” It might if you knew of my timely medical issues, to which I have alluded. From hearing Him, my heart is not at all, or ever has been, hardened.There are no objections, there are significant but jumpable (yeah, I know, not a real word) obstacles, obstacles that I cannot humanly jump alone. According to the Catholic Church, I need a mediator and I seek that. But if I can’t get to any priest and none (there are not many, BTW), return contact with me, what am I to do? The answer in this case is not pre-crafted; He knows better than I what I need; I am simply following, or I wouldn’t be here, going to Mass as a guest, making inquiries, etc., etc. I have not procrastinated, I have discovered a more direct path (which began in the Catholic Church very recently )and desire to follow the discovery He has given me.

May death truly come in the night. From the the weak and fragile human standpoint, this is good thing.

CAF is a but a medium. (And a good one); I know that, and the fact that more is needed. Bunches more. I need and want Him.“open your heart to God.” That I did a very long time ago…
“just who do you put your faith in?” Jesus.
I do not expect Christ on my terms. I expect Him on God’s. And I am listening intently.

I am fairly sure that I understand what you have advised (sometimes my head just hurts too much to focus as needed) and I am grateful. Forgive me if my reply seems otherwise. I took my thoughts one by one from the words that most stood out from your post.

In the end, literally and figuratively, it is, and always will be, God, Who stands above me, Jesus, Who stands aside me (and sometimes carrying me), and the Holy Spirit, Who Lives within me. I am wholeheartedly fine with that…If He has been wondering about that, (I am sure you know what I mean by that!), if this has been a test from whom- or whatever to give up, ain’t happening. In the end, it’ll just be me, answering to Him. He will do what needs to be done. He will still love me.

Again, thank you.

In Christ with blessings

 

[cheezey]

Hi, Cheezey,

Sorry …I missed it. I did not pick up on a specific about any serious health problems - I just thought this was a general comment.

My wife and I will be keeping you in our prayers.

While I do not know anything involving **a mediator **- and, it is none of my business - it is possible that the Moderator knows or knows someone who does - and can put you in touch with someone that that can provide the help you are looking for.

God bless and may you and yours have a very Blessed Christmas

Therein lies the pickle of a conundrum. There was one member of a local Church - one I could get to easily - who was to speak to a priest on my behalf. He didn’t. He either can’t - or won’t- understand the situation. (The church member) Doesn’t matter. I think at this point I gotta leave it up to Him. Can’t really ask for anyone better, right?!

Matthew 11
28 "Come to me, all of you who are tired and have heavy loads, and I will give you rest.

Matthew 7
7 "Ask, and God will give to you. Search, and you will find. Knock, and the door will open for you.
8 Yes, everyone who asks will receive. Everyone who searches will find. And everyone who knocks will have the door opened.

Matthew 25
40 "Then the King will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, anything you did for even the least of my people here, you also did for me.’

Prayers would be most appreciative.

Blessings and thank you. :thankyou:

And a very merry Christmas to you and yours…

P.S. I figured you may not have known more of the specifics, at least as I have offered previously… Understandable. There’s a lot to read here!! No to mention, I have posted this issue on a few forums and I can’t remember which is which anymore…Thank goodness for the statistics option!!

 

[guanophore]

The only situation I can think of that fits that description would be, in a time of war, a Lutheran or an Anglican or a member of an Eastern Orthodox Church is cut off from his own people and gets stuck on the Catholic side of the line for an extended period of time; he can request the Sacraments of Penance and Holy Communion from a Catholic priest, and explain to him that although he has no intention of becoming Catholic, he cannot presently receive the Sacraments from his own people, and would like to receive them in a Catholic Church.

But if the person had access to his own community, there would be no reason for him to need the Sacraments from a Catholic priest, if he does not intend to become a Catholic.

I think a catechumen who had a foreshortened future, such as a prospect of imminent death by illness or perhaps a treatment that could be lethal that would qualify under these conditions.

 

[jmcrae]

I think a catechumen who had a foreshortened future, such as a prospect of imminent death by illness or perhaps a treatment that could be lethal that would qualify under these conditions.

What would happen is, they would be immediately received into the Church (or as soon as humanly possible) and they would receive the Sacraments after making their Profession of Faith and becoming Catholic - they would not be non-Catholics at the time of receiving the Sacraments.

So, even in this case, it is not the giving of Holy Communion to a non-Catholic - the person would be Catholic, for the few number of days that they had left to live.

 

[jmcrae]

Therein lies the pickle of a conundrum. There was one member of a local Church - one I could get to easily - who was to speak to a priest on my behalf. He didn’t. He either can’t - or won’t- understand the situation.

I am completely confused. Why can you not contact the priest yourself?

Simply say, “Hi. I am thinking about becoming a Catholic. I happen to live in your parish. May I come in and see you for a half hour at some point this week to talk about what I need to do? I have some special circumstances that are best explained in person.”

I can’t imagine any priest who would not accommodate you.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Jmcrae,

Maybe I just lost the context here … but, are you saying that this is a problem?

If you carry this out a little further, then you have the person dying as a Catholic in the state of grace and being welcomed into Heaven … and, that sounds very good to me…

God bless

What would happen is, they would be immediately received into the Church (or as soon as humanly possible) and they would receive the Sacraments after making their Profession of Faith and becoming Catholic - they would not be non-Catholics at the time of receiving the Sacraments.

So, even in this case, it is not the giving of Holy Communion to a non-Catholic - the person would be Catholic, for the few number of days that they had left to live.