Intrigued by Catholicism, but just can't convert for many reasons

[tqualey]

Hi, Kal2012,

I really enjoyed reading your post. … and, thank you for sharing your story…

You are so right, the Truth is the Truth - no matter who says it - no matter what we would like it to be - it is objectively there.

Actually, the idea of voting for Truth with one’s feet is an amazing concept. Imagine, deciding that one does not believe in gravity … one would just … well … maybe walking away from that one would be a problem! It could be that walking away from the White Throne will be even more difficult!

God bless

I feel the same way. My heart just aches because I remember being like Caliloco and sincerely struggling over where I should be and why.

I fear that CaliLoco gets the impression that people who are pro-life always have been this way when that’s simply not the case. There was a time when I spewed the same rhetoric thinking the whole time that it just/right/true. I was being ‘fair’ and ‘nonjudgmental’ and all the things that our society values above Godliness. I just couldn’t imagine being ‘one of those people’ (an anti-abortion zealot) and sincerely thought that I was a better person because I was so ‘enlightened’ and ‘modern’. I fought God every step of the way when he was revealing the truths about life to me. It forced me to change in ways that put me in direct opposition to our culture and, when you value being liked, it’s hard to be ‘controversial’ and hold opinions contrary to what society says is okay.

Truth is the truth, regardless of whether you want it to be true or not. In fact, truth really has nothing to do with your opinion at all. It just is. You either reject it or you accept it. However, the truth doesn’t change, despite the fact that our society has placed value in moral relativism.

 

[vsedriver]

Yes that’s a valid criticism. But what’s so wrong about people wanting to seek the truth and practice it properly, when there are valid theological counterarguments like the links I posted above? Why waste time in a whack church, when you can vote with your feet?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Vsedriver,

Well said!

One of the things I have truly marvele at is just how ‘sex education’ is conducted in the public arena. It is really just biology - nothing is taught about attitude. The lack or disregard for the attitude of the husband and the wife - sets humanity within the context of copulating animals. And while there are some who would say, ‘Well, aren’t we?’ the response is - ‘No. Let’s look at the outcome.’

Human infants are far slower are much more vulnerable then any other animal offspring - beginning with primates. This does not mean that we can not learn from primate growth and development (yale.edu/caplab/Main/Publications_files/weissandsantos.pdf ) only that to disregard the limitations is folly. Yes, I would certainly agree: Sex = baby, but maybe as a precondition: Attitude = Sex = Baby. Without the attitude of mutual respect and genuine love necessary to overcome hardships - we are just floundering. Claiming that attitude is unimportant (and, therefore not taught) is drop of poison no one notices until the recipients are toxic. The proof of that ‘pudding’ is that there are no societies composed primarily of ever-breeding males disdainful of procreative responsibilities. And, as a very limited sub-set, those who attempt to copy but misapply their biologic organs are simply destroying their own bodies and they make a mockery of God’s creation.

Maybe it is just my own limitations - but, for the life of me, I have not found much about being ‘Intrigued by Catholicism’ in these recent posts. My reading of the arguments would have the thread more at, “Annoyed at Catholicism…” or "Disgusted by Catholicism…’ Seriously, if there are those who are indeed ‘Intrigued’ let me personally invite you to post just what it is that is holding you back.

God bless

CaliLobo;10188698:

if the CC is wrong then every church is wrong and there is not truth to seek for.

.

Children are only an economic burden if the acquisition of material goods competes with them.

No woman is forced to raise a child. Adoption is available to all. Also women should be given sex education. Not the kind of education that shows them how to have sex but the kind that shows them how to understand the purpose of sex in human society. Or as I taught my children… sex = baby. All the sex education anyone needs. For those who get pregnant there is still adoption. So there is no need for abortion in today’s society.

Yet abortion benefits men far more than it benefits women. It gives men free access to sex with little risk to any long term responsibility. We need to teach women that their bodies are holy and that sex is not an indoor sport but a holy act reserved for the creation of new life.

People are not animals so you really can’t compare the two. It is a well known fact that animal homosexual behavior is one of dominance, not sexual bonding with a mate. Put two male apes who have engaged in homosexual behavior in a room with a female in heat and I guarantee they will not be making google eyes at each other. Rather they will fight over the right to mate with the female.

Scientifically, homosexuality is no more normal than blindness. It’s a disorder of the sex drive. You wouldn’t go up to a person born blind and tell them their eyes are normal. Neither is it reasonable to tell someone with SSA that their love interest is normal.

You will always have multiple variations on a theme when people look for a god in their own image.

Catholics are considered mean, and unwelcoming because we do not cater to people’s feelings. In the CC it is not enough to feel like you are doing the right thing, you must know you are doing the right thing. Repent, and sin no more is what Jesus taught us. It is critical to salvation to know what is and what isn’t a sin. Too many churches and people are trying to white wash sin and that is the road that leads far away from heaven.

 

[Kal2012]

Maybe it is just my own limitations - but, for the life of me, I have not found much about being ‘Intrigued by Catholicism’ in these recent posts. My reading of the arguments would have the thread more at, “Annoyed at Catholicism…” or "Disgusted by Catholicism…’ Seriously, if there are those who are indeed ‘Intrigued’ let me personally invite you to post just what it is that is holding you back.

God bless

No, I don’t think it’s just you. I’ve been wondering the same thing. I’ve heard that there are problems with the liturgy and the values.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Kal2012,

Geat post!

Ahhhhhh, if you don’t mind a personal question … you list yourself as ‘Protestant’ but you definitely sound Catholic to me. Are you thinking of converting, or have you already converted?

God bless

tqualey;10197176:

Maybe it is just my own limitations - but, for the life of me, I have not found much about being ‘Intrigued by Catholicism’ in these recent posts. My reading of the arguments would have the thread more at, “Annoyed at Catholicism…” or "Disgusted by Catholicism…’ Seriously, if there are those who are indeed ‘Intrigued’ let me personally invite you to post just what it is that is holding you back.

God bless

No, I don’t think it’s just you. I’ve been wondering the same thing. I’ve heard that there are problems with the liturgy and the values.

I’ve kind of pieced together that there’s some respect for tradition, but that’s why I ended up saying that if that’s the case, then someone will either end up going Jewish or Catholic. Protestantism is based in being the ‘anti-tradition’ version of Christianity.

If Jesus isn’t that big of a deal, then look into Judaism. After all, if it wasn’t for Judaism, then we wouldn’t have Christianity. Looking into Judaism was actually just one of the steps that eventually led me to Catholicism.

If you can’t imagine living your life w/o Jesus, then Catholicism is the only real option if you are looking to connect to w/the ancient traditions/rituals of the church. Why wouldn’t you want to be a part of the church that Jesus personally handed to Peter? All versions of Protestantism lead back to the CC.

Just the logic of staying Protestant doesn’t make sense to me if tradition is truly something that you value.

It’s kind of silly to say that you value tradition, but then say that you want the church to be more modern in its value system. However, the modern value system goes against traditional church values.

Hopefully, eventually, we’ll get an answer to what’s intriguing about Catholicism.

 

[crenfro]

What a beautiful post! Thank you.

… Love cannot be separated from the Truth, and that is why it is the most loving thing for the CC to tell the Truth. Now this may not result in the hearers feeling warm and fuzzy. More often, like those who heard the Gospel from the Apostles, the hearers will get hurt, angry, or be “cut to the heart” by the Word.

In such cases, a person may not “feel loved”, especially if what they believe is love is tolerating sin in life.

 

[eddie_too]

calilobo

if almighty God and His Incarnate Son did not leave their flock a shepherd, then all human beings are adrift on a sea limited by and made up by their own finite intellects and wills.

the Catholic position is the exact opposite of such a scenario.

Catholics (and many other christians) believe that the Judeo-Christian faith is a result of the Divine’s intervention in human affairs. this intervention culminates in the Incarnation.

the Incarnate Word sets up an organization (His Church) whose primary purpose is the salvation of souls and the redemption of mankind.

if the Lord’s Church is not successful in its mission, where does a person turn for hope?

you have voiced many objections to the way you understand the Church is run and the hows and whys it is run in the manner it is run. you have questioned both the effectiveness and efficiency of the manner in which the Church is currently being run.

what you have never written or presented is an alternative to the Catholic Church. you have never cited anything that would incline your readers toward another authority.

you have simply disrespected the authority established by Jesus. you have cited many emotion based and some limited intellectual objections to the form the Church has taken in the 21st century. you have not even suggested in the slightest an authority that should replace the Roman Catholic Church.

sinners do not enjoy facing up to their sins. for that reason, there are professed Catholics who might verbalize disagreement with the Church’s teachings. even most of those when backed in to a corner will acknowledge that the primary connection between Divine knowledge, wisdom and understanding is the Roman Catholic Church.

faith is not a result of knowledge, wisdom or understanding. faith is a divine gift. true knowledge, wisdom and understanding come after faith. without faith, human knowledge, wisdom and undertanding can only result in disaster because it rejects the Creator’s direct and most loving intervention in to human history. an intervention whose primary purposes was the salvation of souls and the redemption of mankind.

your objections to and disagreements with the manner in which the Church operates and the teachings it offers are the trees preventing you from seeing the forest which is that the Roman Catholic Church is the divinely created link between the finite human and the infinite Divine.

it was not we human beings who made the Church that link. such an human action by we sinful humans was never possible. only God, our Creator, could connect we sinful humans to His perfect Divinity.

there are many types of Catholics in the world. these types range from the saintly, to the devout, to the practicing, to the non-practicing, to the disavowing, to those who publicly act in opposition to the Church. what unites all of them is that they are all sinners and that they are all in need of salvation.

without the successor to Peter, to whom do the sinners turn for the truth. admittedly, man of the sinners do not like to hear the truth and nearly all fail to practice the truth adequately, but unless you have a better source for the truth (and you have never presented or advocated such a source) you are left with the Roman Catholic Church as God’s primary instrument for saving your soul and the souls of all human beings.

 

[eddie_too]

mankind has produced many genuises. tesla, einstein and newton are just a few of the more ingenius human beings known in history.

none of these genuises provided or could have provided the knowledge, wisdom and understanding of reality that is possessed by the simplest of those people who devoutly hold the catholic faith as it is taught by the Roman Catholic Church.

for all of their brain power, none of the human genuises presented throughout history could use their intellectual ability to save one soul.

faith precedes true knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

without faith there can not be true hope. that is mostly because without faith the only hope that can exist is the hope that comes from admitting no one knows everything leaving everyone floundering for something, anything to believe in.

the fact that you are searching is a sign that the Holy Spirit is at work in your life.

so, do not miss the forest for the trees.

 

[Kal2012]

Ahhhhhh, if you don’t mind a personal question … you list yourself as ‘Protestant’ but you definitely sound Catholic to me. Are you thinking of converting, or have you already converted?

God bless

Yes, I’m currently going through RCIA. I’ll be ‘officially’ Catholic this Easter!

Since I haven’t taken part in the Eucharist or been confirmed in the church, I’m still technically a Protestant. RCIA is a process, not a label per say.

I didn’t realize until I started the RCIA process that I realized much I was emotionally invested in the term Protestant. It just seemed logical that I’d list myself as a Protestant because I’m not a Catholic (yet!) Even though I’m learning the vocab and the tradition, I keep waiting for it not to be weird (for the majority of time) to think of myself as Catholic

It’s really odd to feel comfortable in Catholicism and in my parish, but have mixed feelings about the label - which is something that I totally didn’t expect to happen. I didn’t have this much trouble when I got married and took my husband’s last name!

I expected the hardest part to be the learning and integrating the CC into my life, but I’m finding it’s the label I’m having a huge struggle with because it’s a significant identity changer. It’s just weird because it has been years since I’ve been to a Protestant church, so I didn’t think it would be that big of a deal to me to make the “name” switch.

Still, regardless of my hesitations to call myself Catholic, I will be proud to do so when I’m confirmed at Easter Vigil. I’m just kind of freaked out at the idea that Easter is going to be at the end of March this year - I thought that I would have a few weeks more and Easter in April to get a little more comfortable with the label.

Regardless, I’m nervous and excited to be joining the CC in March. It’s just crazy that it’s only a couple of months from now.

 

[joe370]

Ahhhhhh, if you don’t mind a personal question … you list yourself as ‘Protestant’ but you definitely sound Catholic to me. Are you thinking of converting, or have you already converted?

God bless

Yes, I’m currently going through RCIA. I’ll be ‘officially’ Catholic this Easter!

Since I haven’t taken part in the Eucharist or been confirmed in the church, I’m still technically a Protestant. RCIA is a process, not a label per say.

I didn’t realize until I started the RCIA process that I realized much I was emotionally invested in the term Protestant. It just seemed logical that I’d list myself as a Protestant because I’m not a Catholic (yet!) Even though I’m learning the vocab and the tradition, I keep waiting for it not to be weird (for the majority of time) to think of myself as Catholic

It’s really odd to feel comfortable in Catholicism and in my parish, but have mixed feelings about the label - which is something that I totally didn’t expect to happen. I didn’t have this much trouble when I got married and took my husband’s last name!

I expected the hardest part to be the learning and integrating the CC into my life, but I’m finding it’s the label I’m having a huge struggle with because it’s a significant identity changer. It’s just weird because it has been years since I’ve been to a Protestant church, so I didn’t think it would be that big of a deal to me to make the “name” switch.

Still, regardless of my hesitations to call myself Catholic, I will be proud to do so when I’m confirmed at Easter Vigil. I’m just kind of freaked out at the idea that Easter is going to be at the end of March this year - I thought that I would have a few weeks more and Easter in April to get a little more comfortable with the label.

Regardless, I’m nervous and excited to be joining the CC in March. It’s just crazy that it’s only a couple of months from now.

I would suggest just giving it some time and not dwelling on it so much. Every big change is a transition and requires time to adapt and eventually, peacefully conform, and will only successfully happen when you are ready. No biggie…Perhaps the transition will occur more quickly once you are officially confirmed at the Easter Vigil.

 

[irishpatrick]

To the OP:

I do not think it is productive to counter each of your points, since each point can easily be a thread of its own–and yes, each point are easily answered with the Catholic pov.

However, for me, there are several reasons to be Catholic that go beyond what Protestant Churches hold:

1. The Eucharist (Jesus’ Real Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity).
2. Confession.
3. The Pope.
4. The Magisterium.
5. The fullness of the faith as Christ gave the world.
6. The full Bible (all 73 books).
7. Sacred Tradition.
8. A much deeper meaning behind “Communion with the Saints.”
9. A deep and abiding love for Our Lady–the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[jmcrae]

Still, regardless of my hesitations to call myself Catholic, I will be proud to do so when I’m confirmed at Easter Vigil. I’m just kind of freaked out at the idea that Easter is going to be at the end of March this year - I thought that I would have a few weeks more and Easter in April to get a little more comfortable with the label.

Regardless, I’m nervous and excited to be joining the CC in March. It’s just crazy that it’s only a couple of months from now.

I strongly recommend that you participate actively in the Period of Mystagogia for the six or seven weeks after Easter.

 

[Kal2012]

I would suggest just giving it some time and not dwelling on it so much.

There’s always some loss associated with change, even if it is a good change.

For me, it’s losing a connection that I have to my grandparents. I’ve always traced my love of church back to them and their strong example of faith/service/protestantism. (They were officers in the Salvation Army). I just miss them dearly and wish that I could thank them (in person) for their faithful example because it was so inspiring and useful to me.

Most of it is emotional and not based in any kind of logic. So, I try not to dwell on it, but then I get emotional and female and start doing what females do when we get emotional…dwell and worry and dwell some more. I really don’t intend to, but guys are so much better with compartmentalizing their emotions/different roles in their lives. I will take your advice to heart. Thanks!

 

[empantarhei]

mankind has produced many genuises. tesla, einstein and newton are just a few of the more ingenius human beings known in history.

none of these genuises provided or could have provided the knowledge, wisdom and understanding of reality that is possessed by the simplest of those people who devoutly hold the catholic faith as it is taught by the Roman Catholic Church.

for all of their brain power, none of the human genuises presented throughout history could use their intellectual ability to save one soul.

faith precedes true knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

without faith there can not be true hope. that is mostly because without faith the only hope that can exist is the hope that comes from admitting no one knows everything leaving everyone floundering for something, anything to believe in.

the fact that you are searching is a sign that the Holy Spirit is at work in your life.

so, do not miss the forest for the trees.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Eddie too,

A truly excellent post! It has been some time since Calilobo has responded. My guess is that he realizes that his hand has been called and has simply retreated in the realm of ‘Non-Posting’ to this thread

From my limited experience, those who attack the Catholic Church on CAF go into one of three major directions:

1.) They simply do not respond to the posts presented to them (if the topic is ‘x’ they will respond with great vigor on topic ‘y’) running out of ammunition is a major problem.

2.) They claim to have been insulted by uncharitable posters and leave in a feigned huff or,

3.) They simply move on to another thread and start their attack all over again.

This type of patterned response is important for those who lurk and may not have been on CAF long engough to see the pattern. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ on Peter. All of Protestantism rejects this Truth - when individual members accept this Truth, they start the process to beome Catholic. None of Protestantism has a cogent argument for why they are willing to follow a religion founded by men - yet feel confident in claiming that the Catholic Church is wrong. In fact, the only universally held Protestant doctrine aongst the 30,000+ sects, assemblies, tabernacles, groups, fellowships, etc is that all believe that the Catholic Church is wrong!

There are many Calilobos - those seeking simply to justify themselves while claiming to be searching for the Truth and kicking up dust when the hollowness of their arguments are shown for what they are.

Don’t hold your breathe waiting Calilobo return.

God bless

mankind has produced many genuises. tesla, einstein and newton are just a few of the more ingenius human beings known in history.

none of these genuises provided or could have provided the knowledge, wisdom and understanding of reality that is possessed by the simplest of those people who devoutly hold the catholic faith as it is taught by the Roman Catholic Church.

for all of their brain power, none of the human genuises presented throughout history could use their intellectual ability to save one soul.

faith precedes true knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

without faith there can not be true hope. that is mostly because without faith the only hope that can exist is the hope that comes from admitting no one knows everything leaving everyone floundering for something, anything to believe in.

the fact that you are searching is a sign that the Holy Spirit is at work in your life.

so, do not miss the forest for the trees.

 

[joe370]

Hi, Eddie too,

A truly excellent post! It has been some time since Calilobo has responded. My guess is that he realizes that his hand has been called and has simply retreated in the realm of ‘Non-Posting’ to this thread

From my limited experience, those who attack the Catholic Church on CAF go into one of three major directions:

1.) They simply do not respond to the posts presented to them (if the topic is ‘x’ they will respond with great vigor on topic ‘y’) running out of ammunition is a major problem.

2.) They claim to have been insulted by uncharitable posters and leave in a feigned huff or,

3.) They simply move on to another thread and start their attack all over again.

This type of patterned response is important for those who lurk and may not have been on CAF long engough to see the pattern. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ on Peter. All of Protestantism rejects this Truth - when individual members accept this Truth, they start the process to beome Catholic. None of Protestantism has a cogent argument for why they are willing to follow a religion founded by men - yet feel confident in claiming that the Catholic Church is wrong. In fact, the only universally held Protestant doctrine aongst the 30,000+ sects, assemblies, tabernacles, groups, fellowships, etc is that all believe that the Catholic Church is wrong!

There are many Calilobos - those seeking simply to justify themselves while claiming to be searching for the Truth and kicking up dust when the hollowness of their arguments are shown for what they are.

Don’t hold your breathe waiting Calilobo return.

God bless

Sadly, I agree.

 

[CaliLobo]

Dear joe370, tqualey, guanophore, Kal2012, eddie, and others:

You were wrong! You won’t believe me but I am in between internet providers, so I have come all the way to the only Apple store in Albuquerque just to reply to you.

Honestly, I was debating whether to reply though. It seems like you guys are inciting me to reply, much like how a school bully keeps bullying because he enjoys the reaction. What conclusion can I draw from a post like this?

tqualey:

Maybe it is just my own limitations - but, for the life of me, I have not found much about being ‘Intrigued by Catholicism’ in these recent posts. My reading of the arguments would have the thread more at, “Annoyed at Catholicism…” or "Disgusted by Catholicism…’ Seriously, if there are those who are indeed ‘Intrigued’ let me personally invite you to post just what it is that is holding you back.

You’ve read my first post, and my subsequent posts. My questions are the same as billions of non-Catholics around the world. But now you dismiss my questions as null. Why, when I’ve come in peace?

Here are my arguments again, paraphrasing my previous posts, posed in the form of questions:

1. If the Catholic Church is so true, why does it bear such little good fruit?
2. Where is the fire for evangelism, missions, preaching, and Bible study?
3. Isn’t the stubbornness on abortion and gay rights holding the Catholic Church back from its primary mission–to preach the Gospel? Holding back its ability to connect with modern people?
4. Isn’t there room for change from within on those issues?
5. What is the necessity of these liturgal traditions and devotion to saints, when Protestants can get spiritually fed by Jesus Christ without any of that?
6. Even though Catholics disagree, isn’t there some merit to the argument that not everyone gets good worship out of the liturgy, and that purgatory, prayers to the dead, devotion to saints, Marian devotion, the papacy, and sticking to Holy Tradition are UNBIBLICAL and therefore unnecessary, even wrong? If this argument was so weak, Protestants wouldn’t persist in it. We’re not that misinformed.
7. Even though Catholics disagree, isn’t there some merit to the argument that it’s NOT the church Jesus founded? Isn’t there some lack of clarity with the church history? After all, that’s why it’s debated in the first place, right? bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican43.htm
8. If my arguments, especially #1 and #6, have some merit, then isn’t it possible that the Catholic Church, even though I will concede it’s the church Jesus founded, and I will concede it theoretically has the fullness of the Truth, is not doing its job? And if it’s not doing its job, then isn’t the Trinity doing its work in the Protestant churches, which are bearing good fruit when the Catholic Church is stumbling (and there are stats to prove this)? Despite the Real Presence in the Eucharist, isn’t God really present in the Protestant churches, and isn’t God’s presence evidenced in the fruit that Protestant churches produce?

Someone said my position is stubborn. But I’ve already conceded that the CC has the fullness of the truth. You won’t get that from other Protestant posters.

What am I intrigued by? Its successful challenge against Sola Scriptura, and its claim to be the original church that Jesus founded. Which is why I even considered being Catholic in the first place.

Others said I’m just spewing political rhetoric. But #1-#8 (which I have covered in my several previous posts) show that my questions are broad-based.

Once again, I am not a troll. I am struggling spiritually. My Protestant friends would frown on me for even being in this forum, or for even considering Catholicism! Including my dad, and I’ll spare you what he thinks to avoid being a troll. If it’s this hard for me to convert to Catholicism, how much more difficult is it for people of other faiths, and total atheists??

BILLIONS of people are asking the same questions. These questions deserve thoughtful answers. Please think about this before deciding I am a hatemonger and banning me from this forum.

Thank you to those who have answered some of my questions so far. If anyone has any other insight I will appreciate it.

 

[CaliLobo]

One more thing. I concede my online sources aren’t the best. I don’t have time to thoroughly parse through all of my sources since I spend most of my days at work. I got them all from quick Google searches (which shows how common my arguments are), and if you want better-written sources, there are Protestant bookstores in every town. I apologize I can’t give you more solid sources, but it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

 

[joe370]

Hey CaliLobo…

CaliLobo;10203872]Dear joe370, tqualey, guanophore, Kal2012, eddie, and others:

You were wrong! You won’t believe me but I am in between internet providers, so I have come all the way to the only Apple store in Albuquerque just to reply to you.

Honestly, I was debating whether to reply though. It seems like you guys are inciting me to reply, much like how a school bully keeps bullying because he enjoys the reaction. What conclusion can I draw from a post like this?

Not me brother. Follow your heart… I am just a little confused by some of the links you shared, in terms of their veracity, but that’s cool. I just wish you would check out stuff that truly reflects what the CC teaches; that’s all. Stick around; we are not trying to bully you.

 

[joe370]

CaliLobo

Here are my arguments again, paraphrasing my previous posts, posed in the form of questions:

1. If the Catholic Church is so true, why does it bear such little good fruit?

Remember, it is only true if in fact Jesus is the founder. Right? There is all kinds of amazing fruit! Of course there is the chaff as well; every church has it. The older the church the more chaff, obviously.

1. Where is the fire for evangelism, missions, preaching, and Bible study?

Examples: Scott Hahn and Father Robert Barron; I have the word on fire and will give it to you, if you are interested; let’s not forget all those wonderful saints spanning the last 2000 years; so many:

youtube.com/watch?v=LQ3goNXz8Jg

wordonfire.org/the-catholicism-project/new-trailer.aspx