Intrigued by Catholicism, but just can't convert for many reasons

[CaliLobo]

I’m supposed to get Internet connected tomorrow; I’ll be back then.

 

[joe370]

I’m supposed to get Internet connected tomorrow; I’ll be back then.

Have a good night brother.

 

[joe370]

calilobo,

i understand your questions concerning the social issues. there is a tremendous pressure in 21st century america to abandon traditional morality. most of the media, most of the political leadership and most of higher education focus their efforts on tearing down traditional morality. in almost every effort, there is a common thread that links the effort to a misunderstanding of the constitution of the usa and its purpose of promoting liberty.

at some point in life, an individual needs to accept that it is not possible to know and understand everything. the Church recognizes this reality. it teaches catholics at a very young age that life and faith have many mysteries. faith itself is a very profound mystery. we sinful humans are born with the stain of sin on our souls. that sin affects our souls and how well our souls operate.

the mind is one function of the soul. free will is another function of the soul. since we are born sinners and as a consequence our souls are damaged from birth, one of the damages is a clouded intellect. the intellect is a function of the mind by which the mind can remember, reason and understand.

our clouded intellect makes it difficult, really impossible, to know and understand all of reality. in addition, being the minds of creatures, our intellects are necessarily limited by their finite nature. by their very nature, our minds are incapable of understanding the infinite.

by the grace of God, the human mind of Jesus was not clouded by sin. also, because Jesus’ human mind was perfectly united with His Divine Person, it is capable of knowing and understanding reality in a manner and to a degree that is not and will never be possible for any other human being.

the Lord’s apostles recognized that Jesus had knowledge and understanding that surpassed any thing else they had ever encountered to a degree that was beyond expression. even though they had the same clouded intellects as every other human being ever born into sin, the grace of God as represented by the Person of Jesus and their encounter with Him was able to pierce their clouded intellects and the ignorance and confusion that is the fruit of our clouded intellects. they recognized they did not have the intellectual capacity to have reaced the truths given them by Jesus through their own efforts. in this recognition and through humility, they were able to believe that Jesus is the One.

so, after all of that, it really comes down to the fact that being a follower of Christ means accepting many things on faith in Him.

it may seem unreasonable and confusing to believe in One God Who is comprised of Three Persons. it may seem impossible that the finite and the infinite can be united in One Human Being. it may not make sense that our Creator created everything from nothing. yet, in humility we recognize our own limitations in knowledge and understanding and through faith we substitute for our flawed intellects the knowledge and understanding given to us through salvation history and culminating in the totality of revelation being given to us in the Incarnation of Christ Our Lord.

just as through faith we give assent to theological teachings of the Church that would be total mysteries (so total that we would not even know of their existence) so through faith we give assent to the moral teachings of the Church.

Catholics believe Jesus is God. Catholics believe that God can neither deceive or be deceived. Catholics believe that God became man so that God’s creatures might have eternal life. Catholics believe that eternal life is knowing the Father and He whom the Father has sent.

Jesus knew He was the fullness of God’s revelation to mankind. Jesus knew that He would ascend in to heaven and this world would continue without His human existence being present to subsequent generations of His followers. Jesus knew that it was possible for His teachings and Person to be present to future generations of His followers even though His human body was in heaven and not on earth.

how was it possible for Jesus to perpetuate His salvation for all generations to come? by using the Holy Spirit that Jesus brings to His flock through His Suffering, Death and Resurrection to be present in a human organization.

the questions you should ponder are, could the organization set up by Jesus fail to accomplish its and His purpose? and, if it could fail, how could the salvation brought us by Jesus remain available to all future generations? if Jesus could not ensure He be available for his human followers for all time, who could ensure that? if Jesus did not guarantee an earthly Shepherd for His flock through all time, how are we saved?

for it is in knowing the Father and He whom the Father has sent, Jesus Christ, that we receive eternal life.

to me, it makes perfect sense that the path to salvation should be clear, simple and easily found for any soul that seeks the truth and the good in a humble manner.

it is nonsense to me to think that a Creator who so loved His creatures that He deigned to lower Himself to become one with them would make it difficult for them to know how to receive the gift of salvation.

Hey Eddie. You had me hanging on every word. Nice post.

 

[NessFrancis]

Hello… I’m a Protestant from New Mexico.

• In general, why are Catholic churches so dead and boring? Isn’t the faith “more alive” in a Protestant church? I appreciate that Protestant churches have more entertaining music, are more welcoming, will say hi to you if you’re new, and will ask you to fill out a welcome card so they can get back to you! Even if it’s annoying and in your face, it at least shows they care! Where are the people that care in a Catholic church, besides the nuns (many which give me platitudes of advice when I talk to them)? I just get the sense that the Catholic faith is so personal, but why can’t Catholics get involved with the lives of others, form small groups, and talk about faith with each other? I get the sense that there’s a disconnect between priests and nuns and laypeople, because they live a life of cloistered study. Where are the laypeople that care and I can talk about faith with?

.

Wow. I am so sorry if the parishes in your area have given you this experience, if that is the case, or have you gone to a parish in your area? Have you gone inside a parish office to ask about study groups? My parish has plenty of them. I am involved in a young adult study group. My godparents are involved in the knights of columbus and catholic daughters society. I know there are plenty more. I have found my priests and deacons to be very reachable and relatable. I love them, and I just started going to my parish 2 years ago. Although, the mass is not to congregate, it is for worship to Jesus and only that, but study groups or joining the choir, volunteering at a St. Vincent de Paul store, soup kitchen, and other activities the church has would be great opportunities to get to know your fellow parishioners.

I do enjoy “black gospel music” outside of the church, but I would never want to have it in mass. Mass, to me, is just too sacred for that. By the way, I used to go to the First Baptist Church off and on from ages 8-22. I went to non-denominational churches from 19-22, and an Assemblies of God church at 22, which I loved very much, but I had a calling to come to my faith of origin (that I was never raised in and didn’t know anything about, I was just baptized). I love it. I feel very much at home. I go to mass as often as possible. I talk to some friends after mass either inside the church or out, I go on field trips to the missions when they offer them, I go to confession and sometimes talk while in line for a minute or two, I go to the chapel once a week for holy hour, and see familiar faces or become familiar with others, and I was asked to be a part of a young adult study group where I meet others close to my age. We start by praying the rosary, study for a half hour a so, and then play games for a couple hours, or talk, or watch a movie. Sometimes we get together and do something fun as a group. It’s great. I’ve had a great experience with my parish. My suggestion is to get involved more. If you go to the RCIA classes, you will meet and get to know those people for 8 or 9 months and might form friendships with them. I did with a couple.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Calilobo,

If these guys just don’t give you the month of January - they should at least pro-rate you bill for internet services!

God bless

I’m supposed to get Internet connected tomorrow; I’ll be back then.

 

[St_Francis]

Hi CaliLobo,
I didn’t see you responding for a bit and I saw you got some good answers, so it was a few days since I checked this thread. I admit I haven’t read all the intervening posts…

Here are my arguments again, paraphrasing my previous posts, posed in the form of questions:

1. If the Catholic Church is so true, why does it bear such little good fruit?

Consider those who have fully followed Catholic teachings, people like Mother Teresa who would lift people dying in the streets of Calcutta in her own arms to carry them to a place of care, martyrs who died rather than to do things ranging from offering a pinch of incense to state deities to step on a cross, to consent to sexual intercourse…

Consider that Catholics charites are all over the world and together constitute the largest charitable endeavour in the world throughout history.

Consider the millions who have given their lives to Christ, given up the chance of having a family in order to serve Christ in others.

Catholics, esp in the US, tend to be understated even when they are very serious Catholics. They are not “evangelical” in the same way that, well, Evangelicals are! Instead they quietly go about doing things that other people don’t know about.

There is so much more that could be said in answer to this question but I should save some space for other answers!

1. Where is the fire for evangelism, missions, preaching, and Bible study?

There is a lack of this in today’s world, and there are several reasons for it. But a major reason is… Protestantism. Yep, when the Protestants started appearing back in the 1500s, they started wars. There was a lot of violence. And the way that was resolved in the States was by going along with the general agreement that differences in religion would not be brought up.

I live in the Bible Belt. I see when a revival or some sort of special event comes to town that is Protestants of all different sorts go. Methodists going to a Baptist event and so on. But Protestants rarely go to a Catholic event–why? Because the history of Protestantism is to *leave *Catholicism; Catholicism is very much not an option for Protestants.

Remember the Puritans? What was their goal? To purify the English church from those evil Catholic influences that were left over after King Henry 8th split away.

How many Catholic retreats have you heard of occurring? and yet they happen frequently. There are talks, retreats, and many other Catholic events each year in my diocese. But they are not on the radar of the Protestants.

1. Isn’t the stubbornness on abortion and gay rights holding the Catholic Church back from its primary mission–to preach the Gospel? Holding back its ability to connect with modern people?

Maybe the stubbornness of modern people on these issues is holding them back from hearing what the Church has to say?

If the claims of the Catholic Church are true ( I know you do not yet believe that, but just put yourselves in our shoes for a minute here), then Christ taught what the Church teaches. The Holy Spirit protects the Church from teaching error in the matters of faith *and morals. *The Church can no more start teaching that abortion and homosexual acts are wrong than a mathematician could teach that 3+3=4.

1. Isn’t there room for change from within on those issues?

Is there room for change on the law of gravity?

1. What is the necessity of these liturgal traditions and devotion to saints, when Protestants can get spiritually fed by Jesus Christ without any of that?

Man is both material and spiritual. The Church feeds both aspects of our dual nature.

A person could live on MacDonalds food from the drive-through eaten in the car, but we really benefit from a variety of diet as well as a change in circumstances: company from time to time, a nice environment…

To be continued…

 

[St_Francis]

1. Even though Catholics disagree, isn’t there some merit to the argument that not everyone gets good worship out of the liturgy,

I don’t know what you mean by “getting good worship,”–we worship God… but yes, it is true that some believe they don’t get much out of Mass. But there are some students who don’t get anything out of attending class, for a variety of reasons. This does not reflect on the Mass, since there are so many who do get a lot out of it.

and that purgatory, prayers to the dead, devotion to saints, Marian devotion, the papacy, and sticking to Holy Tradition are UNBIBLICAL and therefore unnecessary, even wrong? If this argument was so weak, Protestants wouldn’t persist in it. We’re not that misinformed.\quote]
Can I say: If this argument were so strong, Catholics would not persist in these practices; we’re not that misinformed.

First, the Catholic Church is not a Bible-based church. The *Bible *is a Church-based document. Yes, it is the Catholic Church which sifted through all the writings and picked those which reflected what Christ had taught them.

But, just as you would not choose to learn physics by reading 4 biographies of Einstein and a few letters from his students to their students, so not all the teachings of Christ are in the Bible.

7. Even though Catholics disagree, isn’t there some merit to the argument that it’s NOT the church Jesus founded? Isn’t there some lack of clarity with the church history? After all, that’s why it’s debated in the first place, right?

Not at all, no more than there is any merit to a teenager’s declaration that his parents don’t love him because they forbid him to go to an unsupervised party. Is there any merit to the argument that God does NOT exist? After all, there is a lot of disagreement in the world about God? After all, that’s why His existence is debated in the first place, right?

1. If my arguments, especially #1 and #6, have some merit, then isn’t it possible that the Catholic Church, even though I will concede it’s the church Jesus founded, and I will concede it theoretically has the fullness of the Truth, is not doing its job?

It is true that sometimes people in the Catholic Church do not do God’s will, and this does cause a lot of problems. However, I would argue that the Church itself continues to do its job, while receiving in some cases little or no cooperation from its members.

The job of the Church is to teach what Christ taught, which it has done and continues to do, and to give people the sacraments. Go out and teach all nations, baptizing in the Name of the Father, the Son, And the Holy Spirit. But Christ told His followers that they would not be accepted everywhere, and that they should shake the dust of those towns off their sandals.

And if it’s not doing its job,

Contingent argument

then isn’t the Trinity doing its work in the Protestant churches, which are bearing good fruit when the Catholic Church is stumbling (and there are stats to prove this)?

God calls everyone. He works everywhere. It’s not as if God is somehow probibited from working with anyone He wants.

Despite the Real Presence in the Eucharist, isn’t God really present in the Protestant churches,

Wherever two or more of you are gathered in My Name… of course God is there. He just isn’t there in the way that Christ is truly physically present in the Eucharist.

and isn’t God’s presence evidenced in the fruit that Protestant churches produce?

You seem to be basing a lot of your argument on this–I saved my comments on it til now–but what are you talking about? How can we judge the truth a church teaches based on the ups and downs of what members do over the centuries?

I don’t know exactly what you mean by the “fruits produced,” but it does seem as if you are looking at certain specific criteria and seeing that the Protestants have better numbers. But in order to fully understand, we would really need to have a full discussion of what the fruits are, exactly, and whether they are fruits one should consider, etc.

Someone said my position is stubborn. But I’ve already conceded that the CC has the fullness of the truth. You won’t get that from other Protestant posters.

What do you think is meant by the fullness of truth?

What am I intrigued by? Its successful challenge against Sola Scriptura, and its claim to be the original church that Jesus founded. Which is why I even considered being Catholic in the first place.

I think this may be why I was drawn to answer your questions–that you are focused on truth, just as I was

A book which is an easy read and which explains a lot about the differences between Protestant and Catholic theology is *Home Sweet Rome, *by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. I’ll get a link to you if you are interested, let me know.

 

[cyejbv]

Hi CaliLobo,

I hope you come back! So I didn’t read all of the posts. Ok, I didn’t read any of them.

The one thing you posted that stuck out for me was how Catholics seem kind of blase about new people at church. I know what you mean, Catholics complain about it !! At least in my parish.

I mainly wanted to tell you that I’m a convert, but prior to that, well I was sort of anti- Catholic. And I didn’t need to read or ask anyone, I knew it was nonsense. The only reason I did end up “looking into it” was to save a friend of mine who is Catholic. Oh yea, I was gonna be the one to show how the last 2000 years were such bunk, oh yea!

Well anyway,… I wound up at a Mass. This was probably 3 years after I started reading about this so-called church I mean I read until my eyes bled! I started with Patrick Madrid, Surprised by Truth and Pierced by a Sword by Bud McFarlane, went onto so many books and blogs, I have to name drop Jimmy Akin was a big help in explaining some of my gripes.
Anyway, one day I went to Mass. I got choked up, in the middle of a full church of people I didn’t know who were sitting, kneeling standing, shaking hands, you name it I had no clue what was going on, and to make it worse I was sniffling and my nose was running. Keepin’ it classy! I joke, but it was the most profound thing I’ve ever experienced. So anyway, here I am today, as a Catholic, by the grace of God -yet I GET what you’re saying about your doubts because I also had a ton of issues with the Church; you really seem to have reasonable questions. … the hard part of the whole thing for me was letting go of my, uh, intellect. Grace ended up filling in the blanks, so to speak. The humility was rough for me; the ‘gift of faith’ that I wanted was no way gonna be had without humility…like a child, you know? That’s the rub, and honestly, I don’t have “advice” for you better than anyone else. But I will ask you to remember- and this is common ground!- In our weakness, Christ’s strength is made perfect. So soldier on, keep asking questions -pref by finding a good priest! -and may God Bless you abundantly. oh yea, hope you return!

 

[cyejbv]

St.Francis,

Well now I have to retract my statement that I didn’t read any reply posts to CaliLobo. I just read yours, and they are *wonderful. * Our Faith is something many Catholics struggle to understand and you explained each point beautifully. (Thank you!)

CaliLobo, if you come back I hope you’ll see them and let us know how you are!

 

[St_Francis]

St.Francis,

Well now I have to retract my statement that I didn’t read any reply posts to CaliLobo. I just read yours, and they are *wonderful. * Our Faith is something many Catholics struggle to understand and you explained each point beautifully. (Thank you!)

CaliLobo, if you come back I hope you’ll see them and let us know how you are!

Thanks very much for your mind words Several people responded with great answers in this thread; I was really impressed.

CaliLobo’s been having internet troubles; hence his or her erratic appearances. I hope they get cleared up soon

 

[CopticChristian]

I don’t know what you mean by “getting good worship,”–we worship God… but yes, it is true that some believe they don’t get much out of Mass. But there are some students who don’t get anything out of attending class, for a variety of reasons. This does not reflect on the Mass, since there are so many who do get a lot out of it.

 

[Zekariya]

Here is my understanding with regard to corruption in the Catholic Church:

Isaiah 22: 20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. 22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Eliakim is the vicar of King Hezekiah, the son of David. Eliakim alone is given the key of the house of David. Eliakim is a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. Note: Only Eliakim has the key. There is no mention of eleven others also having the key.

Matthew 16: 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee [second person singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou [second person singular] shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou [second person singular] shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Peter is the vicar of King Jesus, the Son of David. Peter alone is given the keys of the kingdom of the Son of David: heaven. Peter is a father to the inhabitants of Rome and to the Church of Christ. Note: Only Peter has the keys. There is no mention of eleven others also having the keys.

2 Maccabees 6:2 And to pollute also the temple in Jerusalem [Judah], and to call it the temple of Jupiter Olympius; and that [temple] in Garizim [Northern Israel/Samaria], of Jupiter the Defender of strangers, as they did desire that dwelt in the place.

There were two temples. There was one on Mount Moriah, instituted by God, used by the Jews [Judah]. And there was another on Mount Gerizim, instituted by man, used by the Samaritans [Northern Israel].

In all the time that Judah was idolatrous, did God ever permit the righteous to break communion with Jerusalem and the son of David? No. Did idolatrous priests who *changed the sacrificial rituals invalidate the sacrifices? No. [read 1 Samuel 2:12-17]

Judah called themselves Judah. The schismatic Northern Kingdom, the Samaritans, called themselves “Shamerim” which means “Observant Ones”.

The prophets worshipped in Jerusalem even though the anointed of God, the king, was idolatrous. No righteous Israelite would ever think of leaving communion with Jerusalem, the house of David. The Catholics worshipped in the Catholic Church even though anointed of God’s vicar, the pope, was idolatrous. No righteous Catholic would ever think of leaving communion with Rome, the See of Peter.

Judah became inhabited by idolatrous men and was sent into the Babylonian exile. Afterwards, the righteous re-entered Jerusalem. The Catholic Church became inhabited by idolatrous men and will be exiled by the Antichrist. Afterwards, the righteous will enter New Jerusalem.

One must not leave communion with the Son of David’s vicar, Peter, even though the Catholic Church militant has become corrupted.

1 Kings 19:16-18 16 And Jehu the son of Nimshi you shall anoint to be king over Israel, and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah you shall anoint to be prophet in your place. 17 And the one who escapes from the sword of Hazael shall Jehu put to death, and the one who escapes from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha put to death. 18 Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."

It does not matter how corrupt that “the powers that be” are. *God preserves his Catholic Church just as he preserved 7,000 righteous Israelites in Elijah’s days.

 

[St_Francis]

St. Francis,

Love your devotion to animals. I add, as I believe you left out some important points.

Thanks for the additional points

While our Faith is not Bible based you did not say what the source of our Faith is. This source is Revelation. This Cali would discover on reading the Adult Catechism of the USA.

The Church is the mystery hidden for all ages through which gentiles are made fellow heirs with Christ. The Church is the means by which we respond to the call of God to be united with God through Catechesis…that involves understanding and practice…

Little quibble: Christ came for all men, not just gentiles. Aside from that, yes, this is a good and nescessary explanation

Profession of Faith
Sacramental life and obtaining grace
Life in Christ, living morally, to become Holy as Our God is Holy
Pray, ask for more grace and help to accomplish the above…

Fruits of the Spirit come by way of the Gifts of the Spirit, that are produced by the Virtues that commence with the Theologic Virtues, Faith/Hope/Charity oriented to knowing and loving God…and these virtues animate the human virtues aided by the gifts produce the fruits. Human virtues are available to anyone with or without the Church, adding the elements of the Theologic Virtues and grace they are animated and perfected…thus the fruits…

Wherever you are God is. God loves each as if that person is the only one. Is God with you in Protestant communities…if as we believe that animated by Theologic Virtues with intention to ascent to God…of course…if we believe that in that same state of mind, acknolwedging, accepting, knowing that it is the Theologic Virtues and those things producing fruits, all the work of God start to finish, knowing this and uniting in Mass…venerating Scripture/His Body in the Eucharist…then God is also there however believed to be fully present in the fullness of truth…Ok…

I agree that Rome Sweet Home is a good book, a better book is the Adult Catechism of the USA, I suggest an investment of $42 for the Audio version…as this is made not only for Catholics but for those wishing to know what it is the Catholic Church believes and teaches…

I have not seen the Adult Catechism, so cannot recommend it *yet. *I like Home Sweet Rome esp for Protestants, since it comes from the Protestant point of view, and also for beginners, because of the human element, esp the struggles of conversion, and the elementary level. Altho the Hahns explain a lot of theology very well, it is very easy to understand, and it is a book which is easy to read.

However, different people need different books! If several books are recommended, then a newcomer has a list of recommended books and can chose the best one for his needs at the time

 

[CopticChristian]

Thanks for the additional points

Little quibble: Christ came for all men, not just gentiles. Aside from that, yes, this is a good and nescessary explanation

I have not seen the Adult Catechism, so cannot recommend it *yet. *I like Home Sweet Rome esp for Protestants, since it comes from the Protestant point of view, and also for beginners, because of the human element, esp the struggles of conversion, and the elementary level. Altho the Hahns explain a lot of theology very well, it is very easy to understand, and it is a book which is easy to read.

However, different people need different books! If several books are recommended, then a newcomer has a list of recommended books and can chose the best one for his needs at the time

St. Francis,

Fellow heirs…there are other heirs and as you know in context the discussion was the Jews as chosen…so if you quibble do you imply you do not know the context of this statement from Romans that says that God is God of All…Greek, Barbarian, Jew…for God is impartial…I am sure you know this.

The Church is the mystery hidden for all ages through which gentiles are made fellow heirs with Christ.

Concerning the Adult Catechism of the USA…it is the Catechism…can you recommend the Catechism? If you have not read the Adult Catechism of the USA, please do…you will be enlightened as I was…

 

[St_Francis]

St. Francis,

Fellow heirs…there are other heirs and as you know in context the discussion was the Jews as chosen…so if you quibble do you imply you do not know the context of this statement from Romans that says that God is God of All…Greek, Barbarian, Jew…for God is impartial…I am sure you know this.

I don’t understand why you would write that Christ came for the gentiles… Maybe it’s a difference in eastern and western theology. I don’t really want to argue about it; I just don’t see why you’re saying that.

Concerning the Adult Catechism of the USA…it is the Catechism…can you recommend the Catechism? If you have not read the Adult Catechism of the USA, please do…you will be enlightened as I was…

Sigh. Suppose a Protestant friend of mine came to me and said I want to find out a bit more about your Faith. Or suppose a neighbor said they had to write a short report about Catholcism. Or suppose a Catholic teen asked for a recommendation of a book to learn more about the spiritual life.

To each, I would recommend different reading material. The fact that I do not recommend a book that I have personally not ever seen a copy of is no reflection on the book; it is a reflection on my lack of knowledge about the book, which is why I included and italicized the word yet. Even if I had seen the book, it does not mean that I would recommend it to everyone for every purpose. The reason we have different books is that people are different, purposes are different, interests are different.

It’s not like i’m saying that I would tell people *not *to read it! If someone came to me a d said, look, I got this book, what do you think? I would say, I haven’t seen it, so I can’t say anything about it, but other people think highly of it. Or whatever.

 

[CBinNY]

I have heard many say they are fed at Protestant services, they will change churches till they find a preacher or social activities or music that feeds them. Roman Catholic Mass is quite the opposite it’s purpose is to worship God. It’s what you put into it that is important. Every section has a particular purpose with words that provide us a way to express our worship. Like many things in life it is what you put into something defines what you get out of it. It’s said “it’s better to give than receive” you feel good when you give. The Mass is the same way when you pour your heart out to God in worship and love during these “rote words” believe me you get something out of it. These “rote words” are also usually from scripture.

 Mass begins with The Penitential Rite where we recognize that we are sinners fully dependent, through faith, on the Lords mercy and grace. Then we praise God by repeating

    "The Gloria"
 *Glory to God in the highest. And on earth peace to men of good will. We praise You. We bless You. We adore you. We glorify You. We give You thanks for Your great glory. O Lord God, heavenly King, God the Father almighty. O Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son. O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father: you Who take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us. You Who take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer. You Who sit at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us. For you alone are holy. You alone are the Lord. You alone, O Jesus Christ, are most high. Together with the Holy Spirit in the glory of God the Father. Amen. *

My heart soars with love for our Lord as I repeat those words. Again it is what you put of yourself into the prayers that give them meaning. Then Three passages of scripture followed by a homily (sermon) given by the pastor. Then you get to publicly stand up and profess your faith in Christ for all to hear by repeating the Nicene Creed. The offering of gifts to God in bread and wine and our contribution is next. The Priest then says a few prayers leading to the Eucharistic Prayer, when through the priest’s words the Holy Spirit changes the bread and wine into The Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Afterwards we say The Our Father (the Lord’s Prayer). The priest distributes the Eucharist to the faithful who are without mortal sin on their soul and believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. A period of silence follows while you say some private prayers to the Lord. Then priest says prayers to end the Mass and gives a blessing.
People don't usually talk before Mass or greet each other except with a kiss, nod or a shake of the hand. It's not proper to talk in the house of our Lord like at a social gathering, that may seem unfriendly but it is to respect the Lord. After Mass in the Vestibule (entrance) people will greet each other. I hope this helps you understand what is happening at Mass. Most people who complain about the Mass being dull haven't received proper teaching. God Bless.

 

[jthiles]

Last week over lunch a dear friend asked me simply, “So why are you Catholic?” I was surprised. Not by the question, because this is one of those treasured friendships where hardly any inquiry is off-limits or too personal. What surprised me was how quickly my answer came to mind. “The Eucharist,” I told her. There. I didn’t even have to think about it. The reason I chose the Catholic faith fifty-five years ago this summer was and still is, the Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist. Whenever anyone asks me about Catholicism, I point them to the sixth chapter of St. John’s Gospel. If you want to know what it means to be Catholic, read it. No matter what’s been written or thought or taught about the Eucharist over the centuries, this chapter is Jesus speaking to us in His own words, sharing His Heart with us. “Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood you have no life in you.” (John 6:53)

My Catholic faith preserves the truth of Christ’s words at every Mass. The Eucharist is not crackers and grape juice, which are understood as symbols of His Body and Blood. The bread and the wine aren’t secondary reminders of a risen God living in a far-off heaven, and benignly looking down upon us. The Eucharist IS Christ, just as He tells us: “This is My Body…this is My Blood” ( Matthew 26:14-15 ). It is He—my Savior. He comes to me from His throne in heaven and offers Himself to me in Holy Communion. Just as He gave Himself for me on the Cross, broken and poured out for my sake—He offers Himself again, broken and poured out in the appearance of bread and wine. Other churches may talk about Calvary, but at every Mass, we Catholics go there. In the Eucharist, Christ is as present to us as He was to His disciples and His Blessed Mother.

But in the Eucharist, we are even more privileged and more blessed because we are able to physically receive Him in an intimate and cellular encounter. Christ comes to me and longs to bring His life into my own. This is not theory or symbol or remembrance. This is God, physically present in the here and now of this very moment. “The Word became flesh…” (John 1:14). There’s no theory in the Cross of Christ—it’s blood and nails and a pierced side. There’s no theory in the Eucharist—it’s His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. The same Christ, risen from the dead, Who appeared to His disciples in the Upper Room, is now on our altar, now in my hand, now in my mouth. Jesus, the Christ.

The Mass is the words of Jesus when He gives us Himself and tells us: “Do this in remembrance of Me” (Luke 22:19). These are six words that have changed the world. We remember Him at the altar at every Mass and He, unfailingly, comes to us, comes into us, to make His home inside us. And if we meet Him with an open heart, He promises to transform us into Himself. “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in him” (John 6:56). This is the gift of my Catholic faith, the truth from Christ’s own mouth preserved, protected, defended and celebrated for 2000 years.

There’s not another church on earth that offers a miracle at every mass.

 

[Miriam1947]

great post.

 

[CopticChristian]

I don’t understand why you would write that Christ came for the gentiles… Maybe it’s a difference in eastern and western theology. I don’t really want to argue about it; I just don’t see why you’re saying that.

Sigh. Suppose a Protestant friend of mine came to me and said I want to find out a bit more about your Faith. Or suppose a neighbor said they had to write a short report about Catholcism. Or suppose a Catholic teen asked for a recommendation of a book to learn more about the spiritual life.

To each, I would recommend different reading material. The fact that I do not recommend a book that I have personally not ever seen a copy of is no reflection on the book; it is a reflection on my lack of knowledge about the book, which is why I included and italicized the word yet. Even if I had seen the book, it does not mean that I would recommend it to everyone for every purpose. The reason we have different books is that people are different, purposes are different, interests are different.

It’s not like i’m saying that I would tell people *not *to read it! If someone came to me a d said, look, I got this book, what do you think? I would say, I haven’t seen it, so I can’t say anything about it, but other people think highly of it. Or whatever.

Francis,

The problem is not that I wrote that Christ came for the Gentiles, it is your believing that I did and I ask, how is it you read the book of Romans and believe that having referenced the Book of Romans you conclude that I wrote this?

I suggest you read the Adult Catechism of the USA and ask your Protestant friends to do so as well. For teens I send them to the YouCat…whether you have read it or not does not mean you cannot recommend the Catechism…the Bishops think it is a good idea…do you agree that all the work of the Bishops was worth something?

 

[St_Francis]

Francis,

The problem is not that I wrote that Christ came for the Gentiles, it is your believing that I did and I ask, how is it you read the book of Romans and believe that having referenced the Book of Romans you conclude that I wrote this?

You wrote: “The Church is the mystery hidden for all ages through which gentiles are made fellow heirs with Christ.” Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by this?

I suggest you read the Adult Catechism of the USA and ask your Protestant friends to do so as well. For teens I send them to the YouCat…whether you have read it or not does not mean you cannot recommend the Catechism…the Bishops think it is a good idea…do you agree that all the work of the Bishops was worth something?

It is not that I do not think the book is worthy; it’s just that it is one book out of 2000 years’ worth of books in the Church. I try to tailor the books I recommend to the recommendee, so to speak, and I am not familiar with this one.