Intro Catechumens & sponsors; Baptism during Liturgy; Applause

[jim1130]

I know that this has been addressed before, but I need a refresher course.

Yesterday, during Mass, before the readings, our priest had the Catechumens and their sponsors on the altar, one pair at a time, with the sponsor introducing the Catechumen. I was not particularly keen on this at all. To show my protest, I chose not to applaud after all were introduced. I am also not very keen on Baptism during the Mass. After each Baptism, when the priest introduces the newly baptized, we are invited to applaud.

Am I being overly sensitive? Or should Catechumen and sponsor introduction and Baptisms not occur during the Mass? And should applause be non existent?

 

[buffalo]

Here is a whole thread on clapping.

 

[buffalo]

jim1130:

I know that this has been addressed before, but I need a refresher course.

Yesterday, during Mass, before the readings, our priest had the Catechumens and their sponsors on the altar, one pair at a time, with the sponsor introducing the Catechumen. I was not particularly keen on this at all. To show my protest, I chose not to applaud after all were introduced. I am also not very keen on Baptism during the Mass. After each Baptism, when the priest introduces the newly baptized, we are invited to applaud.

Am I being overly sensitive? Or should Catechumen and sponsor introduction and Baptisms not occur during the Mass? And should applause be non existent?

I don’t think you are being overly sensitive. Perhaps you could ask your pastor to initiate a prayer of welcoming that the whole congregations says instead of clapping…

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Just some general comments here.

First, the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults does include the Rite of Welcome which is what you observed. The whole process of RCIA is geared to the inculturation of the seeker into the Catholic community, and this cannot be accomplished if we do not introduce them. Clapping, while normally not appropriate in church, is, indeed, the way in which the Western world (hearing) indicates approval. It is used during the ordination ceremony of a deacon, priest or bishop. It is appropriate at the Rite of Welcome since the community is welcoming the seekers and this is how the community makes its welcome known.

Clapping after a baptism, however, is not appropriate. Baptism during Mass is both appropriate and suggested by the Church.

Deacon Ed

 

[Joysong]

My pastor has baptisms at one particular mass time, only once a month, and ONLY if the people request the ceremony takes place at Mass. Some prefer a private baptism after Mass, and that is their choice.

You might ask your pastor when this is scheduled, and if it bothers you, go to a different Mass where baptism is not celebrated.

Carole

 

[jim1130]

Joysong:

My pastor has baptisms at one particular mass time, only once a month, and ONLY if the people request the ceremony takes place at Mass. Some prefer a private baptism after Mass, and that is their choice.

You might ask your pastor when this is scheduled, and if it bothers you, go to a different Mass where baptism is not celebrated.

Carole

Thank you!

 

[Joysong]

P.S., Friend,

I forgot to mention that we have only one mass per weekend where the ceremonies for catechumens takes place. Again, ask you pastor what time this takes place, and arrange for another mass time.

 

[mjdonnelly]

It is a right of the parents to have the baptism during mass, and since it is a new member into the catholic family, it should be the norm, not the exception.

Can do without the Catechumins during mass.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

jim1130:

I know that this has been addressed before, but I need a refresher course.

Yesterday, during Mass, before the readings, our priest had the Catechumens and their sponsors on the altar, one pair at a time, with the sponsor introducing the Catechumen. I was not particularly keen on this at all. To show my protest, I chose not to applaud after all were introduced. I am also not very keen on Baptism during the Mass. After each Baptism, when the priest introduces the newly baptized, we are invited to applaud.

Am I being overly sensitive? Or should Catechumen and sponsor introduction and Baptisms not occur during the Mass? And should applause be non existent?

Applause should be held. in both cases. However the Baptism should take place within the community and the Catechumen should be introduced to the Christian community.

 

[puzzleannie]

jim1130:

I know
Am I being overly sensitive? Or should Catechumen and sponsor introduction and Baptisms not occur during the Mass? And should applause be non existent?

Baptism is by preference done during Sunday Mass, that is in the ritual. Do you mean the catechumens were baptized during this Mass, or that they were introduced as part of the rite of acceptance? Either way, these rites are supposed to be conducted during Mass, and the congregation is supposed to welcome them as they enter into participation in parish life and the life of the Church. The sponsor represents you, that is, the congregation, which is why you are asked to join in the blessing prescribed for the people and to welcome the catechumens. Your protest in effect denies that welcome.

Clapping is not part of the ritual, but something that in our culture has come to indicate approval, welcome etc., so is sometimes done to express those things. If you don’t want to clap, don’t do it, but please do not withhold your welcome from new Catholics who belong there, and who are being introduced to you in the rites of the Church.

Sounds like there is a problem in your parish with good catechesis for the people on RCIA and on baptism, not your fault.

 

[puzzleannie]

mjdonnelly:

It Can do without the Catechumins during mass.

they belong there. do you really mean to communicate to new or prospective members of the Church that you do not care to extend the welcome to them which is prescribed in the rites?

 

[jim1130]

puzzleannie:

Baptism is by preference done during Sunday Mass, that is in the ritual. Do you mean the catechumens were baptized during this Mass, or that they were introduced as part of the rite of acceptance? Either way, these rites are supposed to be conducted during Mass, and the congregation is supposed to welcome them as they enter into participation in parish life and the life of the Church. The sponsor represents you, that is, the congregation, which is why you are asked to join in the blessing prescribed for the people and to welcome the catechumens. Your protest in effect denies that welcome.

Clapping is not part of the ritual, but something that in our culture has come to indicate approval, welcome etc., so is sometimes done to express those things. If you don’t want to clap, don’t do it, but please do not withhold your welcome from new Catholics who belong there, and who are being introduced to you in the rites of the Church.

Sounds like there is a problem in your parish with good catechesis for the people on RCIA and on baptism, not your fault.

I appreciate the response. I opted not to applaud because I did not think it was appropriate to clap at Mass (seems we applaud a lot these days). Sometimes, I just get confused with that is allowed and what is not allowed. It just seems that there are distractions at Mass beyond crying babies whose parents choose not to use the cry room.

 

[puzzleannie]

we are building a new church and the guidelines from the diocese specify that cry rooms are not allowed, and that all children belong in the assembly. There is a publication from the bishops that gives the theology behind this and issues of church construction in general, called Built of Living Stones.

thank you for being more specific, I was not sure of you were objecting to the clapping, which is not supposed to be allowed but seems to be very common, or the rite of welcoming the catechumens and baptism during Sunday Mass, which is the prescribed rite of the Church. Get ready folks, remember first communions, too, we always get a lot of complaints about that, when “my pew” gets taken by a first communicant and family at “my Mass”.

 

[mjdonnelly]

puzzleannie:

they belong there. do you really mean to communicate to new or prospective members of the Church that you do not care to extend the welcome to them which is prescribed in the rites?

I just think it should wait until the Rite of Election.

 

[Orionthehunter]

mjdonnelly:

I just think it should wait until the Rite of Election.

The Church disagrees. It has two Rites as they signify two distinct milestones in their journey. As one who has been involved for 5 years in the RCIA program, both Rites deserve acknowledgement by the parish. If one were personally aware of the significant things a person joining the Church goes thru (leaving the faith tradition that nourished and contributed to their faith development to date and even sometimes inviting recrimination and even expulsion by their family members), I would hope you’d have a different attitude. For a Catholic Christian to deny or denigrate these milestones as budding Catholics proceed on this very significant journey seems rather un-Christian and selfish to me.

Rite of Welcoming: The Rite of Acceptance is a celebration where the unbaptized inquirers publicly declare to the church their intentions to continue their faith journey. The church welcomes and accepts them as persons who intend to become its members. This Rite maybe adapted to accommodate baptized Inquirers who seek to become fully initiated into the Catholic Faith (Rite of Welcoming). After the celebration of the Rite of Acceptance, the Catechumens enter into the Catechumenate period.

Rite of Election: During the rite of election the church formally announces the names of those who will soon celebrate the sacraments of initiation. Usually the rite of election takes place at the cathedral with the bishop on the First Sunday of Lent, and those who are named will celebrate baptism, confirmation, and first communion at their parishes during the following Easter Vigil. These individuals enter the cathedral as “catechumens” and leave as “elect.” The ceremony may also be called “enrollment of names.” Also, the Rite of Election is primarily focused on those who are unbaptized, the baptized do participate but at less significance.