Invalid absolution formula

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luishfernandes

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I advised a friend not to confess to such a priest because he used an invalid absolution formula, with respect to the priest without wanting to defame him. Did I slander?
 
Yes, I confessed to him once and asked him for the correct formula: “… I absolve you …”.
 
He used as a formula: “… I forgive you …”.
If I am not completely mistaken, it invalidates the confession.

I thought it was a charitable duty to alert my friend about this.
 
luishfernandes said:
He used as a formula: “… I forgive you …”.
If I am not completely mistaken, it invalidates the confession.
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I would think it is illicit but not invalid. The priest is still acting in persona christi when he says the words.
 
Montrose said:
I would think it is illicit but not invalid. The priest is still acting in persona christi when he says the words.
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By that logic, a priest could say “Banana banana banana” over the bread and wine and it would still consecrate into the Eucharist simply because he’s acting in persona Christi.

Words matter. Meaning matters. Sacraments are both matter and form.
 
Fauken said:
By that logic, a priest could say “Banana banana banana” over the bread and wine and it would still consecrate into the Eucharist simply because he’s acting in persona Christi.

Words matter. Meaning matters. Sacraments are both matter and form.
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Banana etc is just being silly.
Using I forgive (even if not correct) he is still acting in persona christi with the intent to absolve the penitent.
 
Montrose said:
Banana etc is just being silly.
Using I forgive (even if not correct) he is still acting in persona christi with the intent to absolve the penitent.
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The form of the Sacrament is the formula of absolution, which in the Latin rite is “I absolve you from your sins in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Amen”. The clergy who baptized saying “We baptize” also intended to baptize and act in persona Christi, but as we have heard in the last couple of months, the baptisms were invalid because that single word change changed the meaning behind the baptism. The priest may be acting in persona Christi, but he is the medium by which God’s forgiveness is given through, not its source.
 
Fauken said:
The form of the Sacrament is the formula of absolution, which in the Latin rite is “I absolve you from your sins in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Amen”. The clergy who baptized saying “We baptize” also intended to baptize and act in persona Christi, but as we have heard in the last couple of months, the baptisms were invalid because that single word change changed the meaning behind the baptism. The priest may be acting in persona Christi, but he is the medium by which God’s forgiveness is given through, not its source.
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We have some priests in these forums. Hopefully one of them can come in and say if I forgive makes absolution invalid or not.
I don’t know the answer and I can’t accept your opinion at face value as you are also a layman.
 
Montrose said:
I don’t know the answer and I can’t accept your opinion at face value as you are also a layman.
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And so to support your case you cite… a layman? On Catholic Answers?

If you don’t think I know what I’m talking about, then that’s one thing. But don’t say you can’t take my opinion at face value because I’m a layperson and then cite another layperson as to why your answer was right.
 
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Fauken said:
And so to support your case you cite… a layman? On Catholic Answers?
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Nope. Just another opinion. I don’t have a case. If you read my first post I used the word “think”. I did not say definitively it was valid but illicit. I’ve searched Catholic Answers and even some priests disagree whether it is invalid or valid but illicit.
I would like a definitive answer.
 
luishfernandes said:
I advised a friend not to confess to such a priest because he used an invalid absolution formula, with respect to the priest without wanting to defame him. Did I slander?
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No, you did not slander. People need to know about things such as this. I have been a victim of the “doubtful absolution” scenario myself. As that great 20th-century philosopher Barney Fife always said, “nip it in the bud”.

If I were a bishop, I would tell my priests that they must use the exact words the Church prescribes, and it had never better get back to me that they had deviated from those words, because if it does, your days of hearing confessions in my diocese will be over.

(What cheek! I usually say “if I were a priest…”, and now I’ve promoted myself to bishop! 🤯 Hey, if you can’t make fun of yourself, who can you make fun of?)
 
Montrose said:
I’ve searched Catholic Answers and even some priests disagree whether it is invalid or valid but illicit.
I would like a definitive answer.
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Agreed. This wouldn’t be a problem if they stuck to the rubrics.
 
Fauken said:
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Montrose:
I’ve searched Catholic Answers and even some priests disagree whether it is invalid or valid but illicit.
I would like a definitive answer.
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Agreed. This wouldn’t be a problem if they stuck to the rubrics.
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No disrespect intended, but throughout my 45 years in the Catholic world, I have noticed that some priests just simply cannot restrain themselves from “tweaking” this and that, it is almost like they have a compulsion to do so. It reminds me of the titular character played in by Peter Sellers in Dr Strangelove, who had to restrain himself from making, ahem, the “Roman salute”, a form of homage that was forever ruined by a certain German dictator in the 20th century (along with an ancient symbol for good luck and good fortune).

I cannot describe to you the sheer joy I feel whenever I go to the OF and the priest strictly follows the rubrics. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, it was like walking a minefield, most of all when traveling — I spent the early years of my Catholic life in a very liturgically conservative diocese, and especially in the Southern dioceses (fewer Catholics to call their hand on such shenanigans?), it was like Forrest Gump’s chocolate box, “you never know what you’re gonna get”. Thankfully some sanity has returned.

The TLM/EF doesn’t present this kind of problem.
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Thre said:
You would think or rather I think I can tell when I am reconciled by the power of the Holy spirit.
But it is interesting what a rigid ceremony requires
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It is hardly rigid. The Faithful have the right to receive valid and licit Sacraments. The absolution I receive should be the same as everyone else, whether they be Jew or Greek, prince or pauper. Subjecting them to questioning their validity because a Priest decided to be creative, or worse, thinks he knows better, is not charitable nor a movement of the Holy Spirit. The law and rubrics serve to protect charity.
 
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So I’m still not clear: Would the OP’s example confession be valid but illicit, both invalid and illicit, or what?
 
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sealabeag said:
So I’m still not clear: Woukd the OP’s example confession be valid but illicit, both invalid and illicit, or what?
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Sadly, it seems the jury is still out on that one. At the very minimum, it’s illicit (so it should not be done), but I haven’t found a definitive ruling from the CDF on whether or not it’s valid or not.
 
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