Invalid Baptisms Challenge- "We Baptize"

  • Thread starter Thread starter MarkRome
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
What happens in the future when a catholic wants to marry someone whose baptism is doubtful? Can you get a “conditional dispensation”? (granted that the non-catholic doesn’t want a conditional baptism).
 
otjm said:
it is a letter to the Catholic Church about the proper wording of the formula used in CAtholic baptisms.
Click to expand...
Sure, because those are the only baptisms we perform. However, if it sets the norm for what makes a valid baptism, then it applies to any baptism. If not, then we have conflicting standards for what’s valid and what’s not… and that’s a worse conundrum, I’d assert!
otjm said:
no concept of sacrament whatsoever, no ontological change in the individual, but just an “official” sign that the individual wants to (somehow) follow Christ. As in, some form of initiation ceremony.
Click to expand...
The standard is that the form and matter are valid, and the minister intends to do what the Church does – that is, ‘baptize’. The other considerations you raise are irrelevant to the question of valid baptism.
InThePew said:
The difficulty is that you’re dealing with something which happened decades ago.
Click to expand...
Right – so, “due diligence”, and that’s about the extent of it.
tuffsmurf said:
I do believe they would need convalidation/sanation, actually
Click to expand...
Right. So, my expectation would be that they could just go back into the church’s registers and unilaterally perform sanations, without the knowledge of the couple. (And, if they wanted to, they could pen a simple letter to these couples, reassuring them that they are validly married in the eyes of the Church.)
 
Yes. The priest first said that my baptism was valid but I made my case and he did do a conditional baptism. The church I was baptized in overtly denied the Trinity (because they said it closed participation in the Godhead) and taught that we would become Co-equal with God as Jesus was.
 
That solves the problem of validity at least. But I think it is still kind of an odd situation to not know for sure if your marriage is sacramental or not.
 
acanonlawyer said:
40.png
MNathaniel:
the list of approved baptisms will change
Click to expand...
I think way too much weight has been given to this list (or these lists). I probably should look into where it/they came from. Probably some canon lawyer(s) somewhere…

Dan
Click to expand...
😂😜🙃
1234
 
tuffsmurf said:
But I think it is still kind of an odd situation to not know for sure if your marriage is sacramental or not.
Click to expand...
Yes, I suppose it would be. If it was a cause of concern, perhaps the doubtfully baptized person would be willing to receive conditional baptism, thereby remove the uncertainty about both his/her baptismal status and sacramental status of the marriage.

Dan
 
Gorgias said:
Right. So, my expectation would be that they could just go back into the church’s registers and unilaterally perform sanations, without the knowledge of the couple. (And, if they wanted to, they could pen a simple letter to these couples, reassuring them that they are validly married in the eyes of the Church.)
Click to expand...
Except you won’t find the information (or the droids) you’re looking for in the registers. While they might record whether one party wasn’t Catholic (and any permissions or dispensations received) they don’t record denomination. That is recorded on the marriage papers but those may or may not be kept in the parish where the marriage took place. In any event going back through the records and checking every mixed marriage just to see if the non-Catholic party was baptised by a denomination which uses “we baptise” in their ritual books would be an incredibly laborious and not to mention time consuming exercise. Marriage enjoys the favour of the law and so should be left alone unless there is good reason to do otherwise.
 
My priest obtained a conditional disparity of cult dispensation when I got married exactly for this reason… it wasn’t something my wife was aware of… just part of the paperwork he prepared when I applied for a dispensation from canonical form. He didn’t have the means to investigate her Pentecostalism baptism, so better to be safe than sorry. I’m likely in a valid sacramental marriage, but it’s possible I’m in a valid natural marriage… and I may never know this side of heaven.
 
InThePew said:
Except you won’t find the information (or the droids) you’re looking for in the registers. While they might record whether one party wasn’t Catholic (and any permissions or dispensations received) they don’t record denomination.
Click to expand...
Right. I wasn’t thinking of invalid baptisms of spouses, but of the invalidly baptized priest. That could be a marriage register lookup and fix with sanation, no?
 
Last edited:
Thanks. I watched it. I loved the analogy of how the Sacraments are like the arm of Jesus extended to help us. Sacrament deniers say “No thanks Jesus, I just believe!” No, take the arm! I am so going to use that the next time someone posts the painting of Jesus reaching down into the water to help the drowning person.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top