Invalid Consecration and how to handle it

[smichhertz]

At daily mass today the priest (who is old and a little scatter-brained sometimes) said the words of consecration wrong. He basically said the words of consecration for the wine for the bread. So I’m pretty sure that means invalid consecration, right? Or at least, the bread wasn’t consecrated, he did it correctly for the wine.

So my real question is: How should I, as a layperson handle a situation like that? I didn’t do anything because I expected either the priest to catch himself, or the usher to call him out on it. But they just kept right on going, no one informed the priest.

Would it have been appropriate for me to just shout out “Hey Father, you said the words wrong!”? I feel like I mishandled the situation myself by just letting it go, I just wasn’t sure what to do.

I was going to tell him after mass, but someone else beat me to it. So he was at least made aware of it eventually.

Thoughts?

 

[Loren_1of6]

I have heard that the intent is as important as the act. I would give the priest the benefit opf the doubt and assume that he intended to consecrate the bread, asking God to to change it into the body of Christ. Since someone brought the mistake to his attention after Mass, he will likely be more careful and attentive in the future.

 

[smichhertz]

I have heard that the intent is as important as the act. I would give the priest the benefit opf the doubt and assume that he intended to consecrate the bread, asking God to to change it into the body of Christ. Since someone brought the mistake to his attention after Mass, he will likely be more careful and attentive in the future.

I thought the intent was just one of several required things, along with form and matter. That’s why a priest can’t consecrate other kinds of bread, or a drink other than wine.

Can someone confirm this?

 

[Mattapoisett64]

At daily mass today the priest (who is old and a little scatter-brained sometimes) said the words of consecration wrong. He basically said the words of consecration for the wine for the bread. So I’m pretty sure that means invalid consecration, right? Or at least, the bread wasn’t consecrated, he did it correctly for the wine.

So my real question is: How should I, as a layperson handle a situation like that? I didn’t do anything because I expected either the priest to catch himself, or the usher to call him out on it. But they just kept right on going, no one informed the priest.

Would it have been appropriate for me to just shout out “Hey Father, you said the words wrong!”? I feel like I mishandled the situation myself by just letting it go, I just wasn’t sure what to do.

I was going to tell him after mass, but someone else beat me to it. So he was at least made aware of it eventually.

Thoughts?

Certainly not “shouting out” anything. I would say the other person handled it appropriately this one time. Assuming that at his age Father isn’t the pastor, should this recur a private word with the pastor would seem appropriate.

 

[Little_One0307]

I thought the intent was just one of several required things, along with form and matter. That’s why a priest can’t consecrate other kinds of bread, or a drink other than wine.

Can someone confirm this?

Code of Canon Law

Matter of the Eucharist

Canon 924

1. The Most Sacred Eucharistic Sacrifice must be offered with bread and wine, with which a small quanity of water it to be mixed.

1. The bread must be made of wheat alone and recently made so that there is no danger of corruption.

1. The wine must be natural wind of the grape and not corrupt.

---

Mistakes are covered, if the priest had every intention that the Consecration took place, have faith the Consecration took place. Priests are human and sometimes they make mistakes. God takes that into account.

God bless.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Since this is not a case of a consistant practice, I would say the person who spoke to father privately after Mass handled it correctly. If you are concerned about the validity of the consecration, you can refrain from receiving at that Mass. Stay in your pew and pray for spiritual communion and then pray for this priest and his long years of service and for all priests.

If confusing words or loosing his place becomes a common thing with this priest, then you should speak charitably to the pastor. At that time it may be appropriate to evaluate if he can remain in public ministry. But if you do, don’t expect to be privy to the final decision or any details. It’s not your business.

And in any situation, please don’t share with other parishioners your thoughts or actions.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Wait, did the priest just mix the words or did he not say “this is my body”, at all. I’m no theologian, but I suspect that if he said “this is my blood” then later said “this is my body,” it still would be valid.

 

[smichhertz]

The only real concern I had was no one received Communion that day. The priest is old, but not senile. I don’t think it will be a recurring problem.

Ideally, the lector/usher who is up in the sacristy could have just whispered to the priest and informed him.

What was going through my mind at the time was “What’s more important, maintaining reverence at mass, or ensuring we receive Communion?”. I guess technically, it wasn’t a mass since no consecration occurred.

 

[smichhertz]

Wait, did the priest just mix the words or did he not say “this is my body”, at all. I’m no theologian, but I suspect that if he said “this is my blood” then later said “this is my body,” it still would be valid.

He said “this is my blood” twice (once for the bread and again for the wine) and no “this is my body”.

 

[PiousTemplar]

This is the problem with knowing too much about validity. People loose trust in the priests and worry if one mistake is made. This is my opinion: God is not a computer, he won’t ‘ignore’ us if a mistake is made unintentionally, especially from old age. He takes into account that we are human and make mistakes.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

RE:

I do not comprehend what you have said.

If the priest said the consecration for the bread and wine, then, what is the confusion?

If this priest is olderly, I believe God would give him the benefits of the doubt

Now if it were a younger priest, yes, the mass would be invalid and illicit.

But if the priest was up in age, I still believ e the mass was valid and licit

Let’s not critize him, but pray for him.

If you are troubled by this, you could hasve gone into the sacristy after mass ansd let him know.

 

[smichhertz]

This is the problem with knowing too much about validity. People loose trust in the priests and worry if one mistake is made. This is my opinion: God is not a computer, he won’t ‘ignore’ us if a mistake is made unintentionally, especially from old age. He takes into account that we are human and make mistakes.

I think that’s a good point, at the TLM you wouldn’t have this kind of problem as it is all said silently in Latin.

I’m sure God does take that into account our weakness, but we also shouldn’t presume on that. I’m just trying to make sure I handled it appropriately by doing nothing.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

I’d remain silent.

Lets say you said something that caused the priest to reflect and decide he WAS too old to celebrate the mass and retire.

Chances are the next priest you get could be one of the guitar playing, women deacon worshiping, goat sacrificing, can’t we all get along Protestant want-to-be’s.

 

[smichhertz]

If the priest said the consecration for the bread and wine, then, what is the confusion?

He didn’t, he only said the consecration for the wine TWICE. Once while holding the bread and once while holding the wine. He didn’t say the consecration for the bread at all.

If this priest is olderly, I believe God would give him the benefits of the doubt

Now if it were a younger priest, yes, the mass would be invalid and illicit.

He’s not that old. I’d guess 60s. I think I should have left the “old” part out of it. He’s very mentally competent, I’ve gone to him for confession many times.

Let’s not critize him, but pray for him.

I’m not criticizing him. Heck, I’m 24 and mix stuff up in my head all the time. Were I a priest, I could EASILY see myself making the exact same mistake he made. I’m just trying to figure out whether or not someone should have just quickly informed him so we could have had a valid mass.

 

[supertubos]

At daily mass today the priest (who is old and a little scatter-brained sometimes) said the words of consecration wrong. He basically said the words of consecration for the wine for the bread. So I’m pretty sure that means invalid consecration, right? Or at least, the bread wasn’t consecrated, he did it correctly for the wine.

So my real question is: How should I, as a layperson handle a situation like that? I didn’t do anything because I expected either the priest to catch himself, or the usher to call him out on it. But they just kept right on going, no one informed the priest.

Would it have been appropriate for me to just shout out “Hey Father, you said the words wrong!”? I feel like I mishandled the situation myself by just letting it go, I just wasn’t sure what to do.

I was going to tell him after mass, but someone else beat me to it. So he was at least made aware of it eventually.

Thoughts?

Right to tell the priest his shortcomings. But I think the consecration of the mass is valid. Sometimes we think one thing and say another.

 

[smichhertz]

I’d remain silent.

Lets say you said something that caused the priest to reflect and decide he WAS too old to celebrate the mass and retire.

That would not have happened. He’s a good guy, very easy going. I’m not saying that I would’ve shouted something out, but if someone did, he would’ve had a chuckle over it and then gone and done the consecration correctly. Trust me on this one, I know the priest well enough to tell you that.

Chance are the next priest you get could be one of the guitar playing, women deacon worshiping, goat sacrificing, can’t we all get along Protestant want-to-be’s.

Haha, I don’t know what diocese you belong to, but none of our priests are anything like that. At least, not to my knowledge.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I think that’s a good point, at the TLM you wouldn’t have this kind of problem as it is all said silently in Latin.

I’m sure God does take that into account our weakness, but we also shouldn’t presume on that. I’m just trying to make sure I handled it appropriately by doing nothing.

No, you would still have the problem, you just wouldn’t know about it. But it shouldn’t make any difference. The priest intended to consecrate and believed he said “This is my Body”. There is no reason the Consecration was not valid.

 

[smichhertz]

No, you would still have the problem, you just wouldn’t know about it. But it shouldn’t make any difference. The priest intended to consecrate and believed he said “This is my Body”. There is no reason the Consecration was not valid.

Do you have a church document that backs that up? I’m just asking because I’ve heard a lot to the contrary.

 

[Fr_Larry]

You know what? You need to let this go. If what you said is true he intended to say it properly but made a mistake. In his mind at the time he said it properly. It’s just that his brain didn’t relay the information to his mouth properly. If he knew the proper way to do it but chose to alter it anyway, that could be an entirely different matter.

 

[smichhertz]

You know what? You need to let this go. If what you said is true he intended to say it properly but made a mistake. In his mind at the time he said it properly. It’s just that his brain didn’t relay the information to his mouth properly. If he knew the proper way to do it but chose to alter it anyway, that could be an entirely different matter.

And I’m sure you’re right, I’m just asking for a link to some Church document so I can put other people’s minds to rest.

I’m not scrupulous and I’m not the liturgical police.