invalid marriage and the Eucharist

[dirtydog]

If a couple in an invalid marriage receives the sacrament of reconcilliation, then do not partake in the marital act, can they receive communion, or must they wait until the marriage is blessed by the Church?

 

[pazdziernik]

dirtydog:

If a couple in an invalid marriage receives the sacrament of reconcilliation, then do not partake in the marital act, can they receive communion, or must they wait until the marriage is blessed by the Church?

How do you know that the marriage is invalid? Were they married in the Catholic Church? Unless they have received a declaration of nullity by the Church then the marriage is preassumed to be valid.

Partaking in the marital act only makes a valid sacramental marriage indissouble. It has nothing to do with receiving Holy Communion.

 

[cyprian]

pazdziernik:

How do you know that the marriage is invalid? Were they married in the Catholic Church? Unless they have received a declaration of nullity by the Church then the marriage is preassumed to be valid.

Partaking in the marital act only makes a valid sacramental marriage indissouble. It has nothing to do with receiving Holy Communion.

A Catholic marriage is indissoulble regardless of the marital act. For instance if the night of the wedding the groom was in an accident and was unable to take his part in the consummation. Or if two people wish to be married and one can’t participate for a medical reason. Secondly, as in my case, Icameback to the Church after 25 years of idiocy and in between I re-married Anglican(ouch!) my first marriage was Catholic. I recieved an annulment from the first marriage, however I was in an invalid marriage, and still am. My non-Cath wife and I are going through a pre-cana type thing to have our invalid marriage validated. in the meantime I was really desiring the sacraments. So now my wife to be and I are living in complete continence, and I can recieve reconcilliation and Eucharist. My wife to be can’t recieve any sacraments being not Cath. Best to call the chancery in your diocese. Iwent through 3 priests before I got an honest answer re; living in sin. Most said it was a sin but “don’t worry about it!” (my salvation!?)

 

[dirtydog]

cyprian:

in the meantime I was really desiring the sacraments. So now my wife to be and I are living in complete continence, and I can recieve reconcilliation and Eucharist.

Well, I suppose this answers my question to some degree. To the first poster, I know it’s invalid because I’m referring to my marriage. I’ll avoid the details, but my wife and I both went to confession today and we neglected to ask the priest if we were o.k. to receive communion tomorrow at Mass. Our marriage is being convalidated next weekend, so I won’t be terribly upset if I miss one more time, but if it is proper, I would like to partake.

 

[pazdziernik]

cyprian:

A Catholic marriage is indissoulble regardless of the marital act.

Not really. Only a valid sacramental marriage that has been consumated is indissoulble.

Canon 1141: “A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be disolved by no human power and by no cause, except for death.”

Canon 1142: “For a just cause, the roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.”

cyprian:

For instance if the night of the wedding the groom was in an accident and was unable to take his part in the consummation.

Valid marriage but dissoulble by the Pope for a just reason.

cyprian:

Or if two people wish to be married and one can’t participate for a medical reason.

Invalid marriage. Canon 1084 under “Specific Diriment Impediments”): “Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.”

cyprian:

Secondly, as in my case, Icameback to the Church after 25 years of idiocy and in between I re-married Anglican(ouch!) my first marriage was Catholic. I recieved an annulment from the first marriage, however I was in an invalid marriage, and still am. My non-Cath wife and I are going through a pre-cana type thing to have our invalid marriage validated. in the meantime I was really desiring the sacraments. So now my wife to be and I are living in complete continence, and I can recieve reconcilliation and Eucharist. My wife to be can’t recieve any sacraments being not Cath. Best to call the chancery in your diocese. Iwent through 3 priests before I got an honest answer re; living in sin. Most said it was a sin but “don’t worry about it!” (my salvation!?)

Thanks for doing the right thing in trying to get your situation rectified.

 

[pazdziernik]

dirtydog:

Well, I suppose this answers my question to some degree. To the first poster, I know it’s invalid because I’m referring to my marriage. I’ll avoid the details, but my wife and I both went to confession today and we neglected to ask the priest if we were o.k. to receive communion tomorrow at Mass. Our marriage is being convalidated next weekend, so I won’t be terribly upset if I miss one more time, but if it is proper, I would like to partake.

It’s great to hear that your marriage will be convalidated next weekend in the Catholic Church! If your marriage has not been convalidated then you are not married in they eyes of the Church. If you are actually living as brother and sister and not living a conjugal life then no sin would be involved. You would be free to receive Holy Communion if you were not conscious of a mortal sin. Receiving Holy Communion also signifies that one accepts all the Catholic Church teaches. This includes marriage (and convalidation). To avoid scandal to others I would wait until your marriage is convalidated before receiving Holy Communion.

 

[dirtydog]

pazdziernik:

To avoid scandal to others I would wait until your marriage is convalidated before receiving Holy Communion.

Since I’m a soldier (err airman) boy in a new town, scandal isn’t really an issue. So I guess we’ll go ahead and receive communion. God knows I need it!

Just an aside about scandal… Even if everyone knew me, would it really be that scandalous? I mean, doesn’t it strike you as odd that 99+% of the average congregation receives communion every week, while < 1% receive reconciliation every week??? We were the only people who went (at least in the first 15 minutes) and our parish has only one 45 minute session per week.

 

[Kielbasi]

I mean, doesn’t it strike you as odd that 99+% of the average congregation receives communion every week,

Used to it now, but nearly universal weekly reception of communion might have been more of a change in Catholic piety than even the English mass.

I’m not sure its such a great idea, as it encourages non-catholics who might be in attendance to receive anyhow, lest the others there think they are some kind of pariah, or just never attend because of their sensitivity and respect for the Catholics-only rule for communion.

 

[stbruno]

Here’s my take on it. When a reasonable adult approaches Communion, only he is 100% sure if he is not in mortal sin, and he also is aware of his obligation if he has been properly catechized whether his marriage is valid in the eyes of the church. All this procrastination or attempts to legitimize his ability to receive Communion thru rationalization does not hold water. He will have to meet God someday about the decisions he made to honor the sacrament or desecrate it by receiving it ilicitly. If he has personal doubts about his ability, then he should ask his pastor or confessor. And pray, pray, pray for the wisdom to make the proper choices in his marriage and his spiritual life.

 

[cyprian]

pazdziernik:

Not really. Only a valid sacramental marriage that has been consumated is indissoulble.

Canon 1141: “A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be disolved by no human power and by no cause, except for death.”

Canon 1142: “For a just cause, the roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.”
Iknow what you’re saying, but it seems this terminology refers to cases where the marriage is not consummated because of the unwillingness of one or the other(persons*). For a just cause * seems to imply personal motive on behalf of one or the other, like “he agreed before our marriage to consummate, and now he won’t”. As consummation is in fact the highest point of the marital covenant, idon’t see how it could be the only way marriage is seen as good. What if both parties agree to be married when it is understood that one can’t intercourse? Again it seems that consummation is the perfect summit of marriage(“what God has enjoined together, let no man tear usunder”) so I agree, but are there not other aspects of unity? Sure there are…are these not enough? I wonder. What is the difference between disssoluble and nullity. Does #1141 mean that only a consummated marriage is indissoluble or that a consummated marriage *is in fact * indissoluble, (because God said so)?
Interesting

Peace and Love

Valid marriage but dissoulble by the Pope for a just reason.

Invalid marriage. Canon 1084 under “Specific Diriment Impediments”): “Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.”

Thanks for doing the right thing in trying to get your situation rectified.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

dirtydog:

If a couple in an invalid marriage receives the sacrament of reconcilliation, then do not partake in the marital act, can they receive communion, or must they wait until the marriage is blessed by the Church?

Yes, the person who received reconciliation can return to Holy Communion. They must however wait until the Marriage is validated by the Church to again partake in the Marriage act.

 

[seaseadisney]

I was married in the Catholic church by a priest, without a Mass, to a non-baptized person 20 years ago. I have since learned a person must be baptized. Is my marriage valid since a priest conferred the rites?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

seaseadisney:

I was married in the Catholic church by a priest, without a Mass, to a non-baptized person 20 years ago. I have since learned a person must be baptized. Is my marriage valid since a priest conferred the rites?

It is valid if the proper dispensation from the bishop was obtained. One presumes the priest obtained the dispensation if he was aware that one party was not baptized. In the flurry of activity at the time of a wedding the parties are frequently not aware, or don’t remember, that the priest obtained the dispensation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

seaseadisney:

I was married in the Catholic church by a priest, without a Mass, to a non-baptized person 20 years ago. I have since learned a person must be baptized. Is my marriage valid since a priest conferred the rites?

Yes your Marriage would be valid but not Sacramental if all else is in order (proper dispensation from the Bishop, no prior Marriages). In order for a Marriage to be a Sacrament both persons must be validly Baptized.

 

[BrMike]

A Catholic marriage is indissoulble regardless of the marital act. For instance if the night of the wedding the groom was in an accident and was unable to take his part in the consummation. Or if two people wish to be married and one can’t participate for a medical reason. Secondly, as in my case, Icameback to the Church after 25 years of idiocy and in between I re-married Anglican(ouch!) my first marriage was Catholic. I recieved an annulment from the first marriage, however I was in an invalid marriage, and still am. My non-Cath wife and I are going through a pre-cana type thing to have our invalid marriage validated. in the meantime I was really desiring the sacraments. So now my wife to be and I are living in complete continence, and I can recieve reconcilliation and Eucharist. My wife to be can’t recieve any sacraments being not Cath. Best to call the chancery in your diocese. Iwent through 3 priests before I got an honest answer re; living in sin. Most said it was a sin but “don’t worry about it!” (my salvation!?)

I think this illustrates the problem with the concept of the invalid marriage. If you can’t believe the priests (“I went through 3 priests before I got an honest answer”), how are lay people supposed to figure anything out? Perhaps this is an area where reform is needed.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

If a couple in an invalid marriage receives the sacrament of reconcilliation, then do not partake in the marital act, can they receive communion, or must they wait until the marriage is blessed by the Church?

If the couple separates or at least repents and vows not to live as though Married until the Marriage is resolved they could return to the Sacraments. Of course should speak with their pastor before deciding on this course.