Invalid Marriage - Attend or Not Attend

[mikew262]

Excuse me; this isn’t a matter of:

This isn’t a matter of personal opinion. It’s a matter of Catholics being allowed to practice their Faith. Don’t confuse the issue. We are not judging the couple, but we are not in a position to condone and encourage sinful actions. There’s a big difference between the two.

If a couple chooses to engage in an invalid marriage, that’s their decision, but don’t expect me to commit a Grievous sin and endanger my immortal soul by participating in or encouraging their Mortal sin. I don’t think that’s fair.

Respect is a two-way street. If people want practicing Catholics to respect their choices, they must also respect our right to follow our Faith and the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church.

Nobody is worth endangering my soul. If that sounds arrogant, so be it. On Judgment Day, my critics won’t be there to defend me as I stand before the Throne of God. I’ll be there, alone, to account for my actions or lack thereof.

In His Most Sacred ,

Denise

You certainly have a right to your opinion, however in my mind you are judging (by your refusal to attend) and being arrogant.

Good luck explaining that before the Throne.

Pray for them, but don’t turn your back on them.

 

[mikew262]

If someone invited you to witness their suicide, would you “share in their joy” and attend it as though nothing were the matter?

.

Witnessing a suicide and attending a non-catholic marriage? Boy, talk about apples and oranges.

 

[mikew262]

Again, you put words into our mouths that aren’t there. It doesn’t matter what we approve. It matters what God through His church approves. It’s us not wanting to support our friends’ killing of their souls (which is what mortal sin does). If your friend is holding a gun to their head, go ahead and tell them to fire at will. I don’t do that to my friends. I don’t take the comfortable easy way out.

I suppose it comes down to my feelings about whether a marriage outside of the Catholic Church is blessed by God or not. I’m well aware of what the Church says, however I disagree, at least in part.

Who is to say a marriage ceremony, particularly a Christian one isn’t blessed in some form by God? If a Catholic is married outside of Church, then maybe they should not participate in the Eucharist and other sacraments, however I believe the Church should give at least some recognition.

 

[gmarie21]

I suppose it comes down to my feelings about whether a marriage outside of the Catholic Church is blessed by God or not. I’m well aware of what the Church says, however I disagree, at least in part.

Who is to say a marriage ceremony, particularly a Christian one isn’t blessed in some form by God? If a Catholic is married outside of Church, then maybe they should not participate in the Eucharist and other sacraments, however I believe the Church should give at least some recognition.

If a Catholic is married outside of the Church, then that couple can have their marriage blessed by the Church.

 

[mikew262]

If a Catholic is married outside of the Church, then that couple can have their marriage blessed by the Church.

Absolutely!! My wife and I went that route.

 

[Denise_Shae]

You certainly have a right to your opinion, however in my mind you are judging (by your refusal to attend) and being arrogant.

Good luck explaining that before the Throne.

Pray for them, but don’t turn your back on them.

Mike,

Believe me, I am not trying to be arrogant. I just don’t see how refusing to commit a Mortal Sin (and participate in others committing a Mortal Sin) is equal to being judgmental.

I have relatives who aren’t validly married in the Catholic Church. We love each other and are very close. While I cannot encourage what they’re doing, I’m certainly not sitting in judgment of them.

There’s a huge difference between not participating in their actions and turning my back on them.
Since we are all sinners, I think I can safely say (without being judgmental) that I can love the sinners and still hate the sin.

For me, it’s not a matter of opinion or conscience; it’s a matter of obedience to Jesus Christ and His Church. How can that possibly be interpreted as being arrogant?

Good luck explaining that before the Throne.

I don’t need luck. He already knows the sincerety of my heart, and He will judge me, accordingly. But thanks anyway.

 

[mikew262]

Mike,

Believe me, I am not trying to be arrogant. I just don’t see how refusing to commit a Mortal Sin (and participate in others committing a Mortal Sin) is equal to being judgmental.

I have relatives who aren’t validly married in the Catholic Church. We love each other and are very close. While I cannot encourage what they’re doing, I’m certainly not sitting in judgment of them.

There’s a huge difference between not participating in their actions and turning my back on them.
Since we are all sinners, I think I can safely say (without being judgmental) that I can love the sinners and still hate the sin.

For me, it’s not a matter of opinion or conscience; it’s a matter of obedience to Jesus Christ and His Church. How can that possibly be interpreted as being arrogant?

I don’t need luck. He already knows the sincerety of my heart, and He will judge me, accordingly. But thanks anyway.

I suppose my argument isn’t with you as much as it is with the Church. I have a problem believing that if a couple are professing their love to each other, which is really what God is trying to teach us (love one another, etc.) that somehow God is not blessing their union. If God is blessing their union, how can this be a sin, much less Mortal? By not being married in the Catholic Church, then a Catholic, maybe should abstain from the Eucharist, etc. until the Church blesses their marriage. I have no problem with that. I certainly don’t believe attending a non-Catholic wedding service is sinful.

I’m sorry if I came on a little strong with you. You are just trying to follow your conscience and what you feel the Church expects of you. I just get a little frustrated at times with the narrow focus of Church doctrine.

 

[jmcrae]

I suppose my argument isn’t with you as much as it is with the Church. I have a problem believing that if a couple are professing their love to each other, which is really what God is trying to teach us (love one another, etc.) that somehow God is not blessing their union.

How can God bless their union if He is not even invited to the wedding?

I certainly don’t believe attending a non-Catholic wedding service is sinful.

Non-Catholics aren’t bound by Catholic law - Catholics are. Catholics need to have Catholic weddings.

Catholics are fully well aware that when they marry outside the church without the permission of the Bishop, that they are entering into an invalid marriage.

Perhaps they are doing so on purpose, so that if there is a divorce, they will be able to receive a Declaration of Nullity due to lack of form. Which leads to the question - can God bless a marriage where at least one party is not fully committed “until death us do part?” Because if one of them is already planning ahead for the divorce, then he (or she) isn’t fully committed to the marriage - or is worried that the other partner isn’t fully committed and wants to lay in a contingency plan - which amounts to the same thing, which is a lack of trust of the other person.

 

[bear06]

Witnessing a suicide and attending a non-catholic marriage? Boy, talk about apples and oranges.

Not too far apart. They both have to do with spiritual death. One is a lot slower than the other. So Mike, what faith are you? Are you a Catholic?

 

[bear06]

I suppose it comes down to my feelings about whether a marriage outside of the Catholic Church is blessed by God or not. I’m well aware of what the Church says, however I disagree, at least in part.

Who is to say a marriage ceremony, particularly a Christian one isn’t blessed in some form by God? If a Catholic is married outside of Church, then maybe they should not participate in the Eucharist and other sacraments, however I believe the Church should give at least some recognition.

The Catholic Church does recognize any Christian marriage that’s done as prescirbed by that person’s faith. For example, if two Lutherans have a valid marriage in the eyes of the Lutheran Church then the Catholic Church doesn’t say that marriage is invalid. The Catholic Church recognizes any Christian marriage to be valid that would be valid in the eyes of both spouses faith. So, when a Catholic gets married in a way that goes against the Church’s teachings, the Catholic Church doesn’t declare it valid. The Catholic Church would feel the same about a Lutheran, Methodist, Bapstist, etc. that was married outside the validity of their own faith. So, the Catholic Church does believe Christian marriages are blessed but the catch is that they actually have to be marriages! The Church does recognize marriage where it actually exists.

 

[bear06]

I suppose my argument isn’t with you as much as it is with the Church. I have a problem believing that if a couple are professing their love to each other, which is really what God is trying to teach us (love one another, etc.) that somehow God is not blessing their union.

Again, the Church doesn’t bless the invalid union because there isn’t one.

I’m sorry if I came on a little strong with you. You are just trying to follow your conscience and what you feel the Church expects of you. I just get a little frustrated at times with the narrow focus of Church doctrine

 

[mikew262]

How can God bless their union if He is not even invited to the wedding?

He says he isn’t? Invalid assumption.

 

[mikew262]

Not too far apart. They both have to do with spiritual death. One is a lot slower than the other. So Mike, what faith are you? Are you a Catholic?

Yes I am. However, I don’t necessarily agree with everything the Church says, and lets not go into what I don’t agree with. I’ve fought that battle many times on this forum already.

 

[gmarie21]

Not too far apart. They both have to do with spiritual death. One is a lot slower than the other. So Mike, what faith are you? Are you a Catholic?

A better comparison would be between the sacrament of marriage and another sacrament. Would you attend a confirmation ceremony for a young relative (teen) if you knew that that teen did not understand what s/he was doing only that s/he was going to have a celebration following the sacrament? That would be a better comparison. Or how about a wedding where the couple was only having a Catholic ceremony to appease their devout Catholic parents? During an annulment process, a marriage can (and usually is) annuled because of outside pressure to have a Catholic Ceremony.

These examples would be better comparisons than the suicide comparison. Not to mention, suicide is almost always a result of a disease (depression), marriage outside of the Church is usually a result of lack of knowledge of one’s faith and it’s teachings.

 

[Mr_Jullien]

For what it’s worth, I found this over at EWTN

Attending a Wedding outside of the Catholic Church

Attending a Wedding outside of the Catholic Church
Question from on 02-09-2002: I am a mother of 7 children and 4 of been divorced with no alluments. Each have remarried outside the Catholic Church. I did not attend any of the cermonies. Now I am faced with the dilemena of my oldest grandson is getting married. His fiance is not Catholic and their wedding is set for the end of March 2002. They are not getting married in the Catholic Church. My children are upset that I have decided not to attend my First Granchild’s wedding. They say I am being stubborn and allowing my faith to isolate me from the family.My question is : Should I attend my Grandson’s Wedding and set my religous beliefs and feelings aside?
Thank-you for your prompt reply and attention to my situation.
Sincerely
A concerned Grandmother “Lucy”
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 02-11-2002: Dear Lucy, Is this grandson a Catholic? I presume he is, but not practicing. If he considers himself a Protestant, then the oncoming marriage will be valid, and you will have no problem. Lucy, dear Lucy, I feel the crushing weight you bear on your back. Just because these kids have left Christ and the Faith you attempted to share with them so many years ago, your pain is not alleviated because now the question concerns your grandson. I would advise you to be strong and faithful, stand up to your Faith convictions, be an example of fidelity to them all. Your children are the ones who have broken faith with the family, not you. If this marriage is illicit, never raise your glass of good fortune and blessing to an adulterous life-long union. God bless. Fr. Bob Levis

I hope it helps.

PAX,

Jullien

 

[bear06]

These examples would be better comparisons than the suicide comparison. Not to mention, suicide is almost always a result of a disease (depression), marriage outside of the Church is usually a result of lack of knowledge of one’s faith and it’s teachings

Maybe if I’d thrown the term “willful” in there it would have been more apparent. The Church has condemned “willful suicide”. I disagree with you that marriage outside the Church is usually a result of lack of knowledge. It’s usually a result of “I know what the Church teaches but I’d rather do x, y and z.” It’s a rejection of God’s plan for a myriad of reasons. The same goes for willful suicide.

 

[Denise_Shae]

I’m sorry if I came on a little strong with you. You are just trying to follow your conscience and what you feel the Church expects of you. I just get a little frustrated at times with the narrow focus of Church doctrine.

Mike, it appears as though I stand corrected and owe you a deeply sincere apology.
I thought Fr. Levis from “WEB of FAITH” was explaining Doctrine in that particular episode. But, here, another priest (at least I think he’s a priest) has something else to say:

Attending Invalid Weddings

Attending Invalid Weddings
Question from Denise on 9/28/2006:

Hi,

I have a few questions regarding Invalid marriages outside the Catholic Church. I’m specifically talking about Catholics who marry outside the Church, because one, or maybe even both, participants have had prior marriages w/out receiving an annulment.

1. Would it be judgmental or uncharitable of me if I do not attend the wedding? Even if the bride and groom are close friends or family members)?

1. Am I even permitted to attend the ceremony? 3) If I’m not permitted to attend the ceremony; how about the Reception? 4) If I’m not permitted to do either of the above, can I at least send a card or gift to wish the couple well? 5) Does the Church have specific teachings regarding whether or not the faithful are permitted to attend Invalid weddings outside the Catholic Church?

Thanks and God Bless,

Denise

Answer by Rev. Mark J. Gantley, JCL on 9/28/2006:
Although this may seem like a question of canon law, it is actually a moral question.

The problem, in answer to your questions, is that of scandal. Scandal is an act or omission that leads others to sin. In this case, it is in the sanctioning by your presence of an invalid marriage. You are there as a witness to an untruth, but your presence says, “This is OK. I accept what you are doing.” This message then is sent implicitly to the couple and to all others there and to all those who know that you are attending the attempted marriage.

My general advice it to skip the ceremony but attend the reception. By attending the reception, then you can maintain family harmony and/or friendship with the couple, and perhaps in the future you can encourage them to seek to convalidate their marriage in the Catholic Church.

COPYRIGHT 2006

 

[Denise_Shae]

I’m sorry if I came on a little strong with you. You are just trying to follow your conscience and what you feel the Church expects of you. I just get a little frustrated at times with the narrow focus of Church doctrine.

Mike, it appears I stand corrected and owe you a deeply sincere apology. When I watched that “WEB of FAITH” episode, I thought Frs. Levis & Tragilio were explaining Church Doctrine or explicit teaching regarding attending Invalid Marriages.
However, this priest (at least I think he’s a priest) seems to have a different opinion.

Attending Invalid Weddings

Attending Invalid Weddings
Question from Denise on 9/28/2006:

Hi,

I have a few questions regarding Invalid marriages outside the Catholic Church. I’m specifically talking about Catholics who marry outside the Church, because one, or maybe even both, participants have had prior marriages w/out receiving an annulment.

1. Would it be judgmental or uncharitable of me if I do not attend the wedding? Even if the bride and groom are close friends or family members)?

1. Am I even permitted to attend the ceremony? 3) If I’m not permitted to attend the ceremony; how about the Reception? 4) If I’m not permitted to do either of the above, can I at least send a card or gift to wish the couple well? 5) Does the Church have specific teachings regarding whether or not the faithful are permitted to attend Invalid weddings outside the Catholic Church?

Thanks and God Bless,

Denise

---

Answer by Rev. Mark J. Gantley, JCL on 9/28/2006:

Although this may seem like a question of canon law, it is actually a moral question.

The problem, in answer to your questions, is that of scandal. Scandal is an act or omission that leads others to sin. In this case, it is in the sanctioning by your presence of an invalid marriage. You are there as a witness to an untruth, but your presence says, “This is OK. I accept what you are doing.” This message then is sent implicitly to the couple and to all others there and to all those who know that you are attending the attempted marriage.

My general advice it to skip the ceremony but attend the reception. By attending the reception, then you can maintain family harmony and/or friendship with the couple, and perhaps in the future you can encourage them to seek to convalidate their marriage in the Catholic Church.

COPYRIGHT 2006

Again, I’m sorry, Mike. Had I known it was simply a matter of opinion and not Church Teaching, I’d never have argued the issue in the first place.

God Bless!

 

[stbruno]

I haven’t been online due to computer problems to respond to Kielbasi’s earlier statement about cousins marrying. I guess I didn’t explain myself well…two cousins in two different marriages at different times, not two cousins who married each other.

They married outside of the faith…unfortunately, since then we have had several funerals that we have both attended and both have marched up for communion despite my best efforts to explain why they should not participate in the sacraments.

Best bet…keep praying for them.

 

[stbruno]

Under those circumstances, they couldn’t have been married in the Catholic Church anyhow, even if they wanted to attend the prep. Marriage between first cousins is prohibited.

2 different instances, both were my first cousins.