Invalid Marriage

[kainosktisis]

I am having trouble in dealing with this at the moment.

When I initially was going through RCIA a few years ago, I had no idea my marriage would cause any problems.

Some background:

1. I was baptized Catholic as an infant but was raised Protestant; I attended Catholic schools from grades 1-12. Mom is Catholic, Dad was not. They divorced by the time I was 10…I followed my Dad’s Protestant faith, & I was baptized at 16 in the Baptist church. I had not considered myself Catholic, but grew up with it, & while not completely understanding of many of the practices of the Catholic Church, respected the Church.
2. I had a class in high school on marriage & family life. To the best of my recollection from that time, I don’t remember civil marriage nor birth control discussed (It may or may not have been discussed: it just don’t remember). The primary lessons I got out of that class were that marriage is important, church marriage is best, & it is for life. As far as I was aware from my observations from my parents was that church marriage was preferred, but civil marriage was still ok (& I never learned otherwise). Both parents had married other people civilly (& later divorced), so I had assumed civil marriage to be ok (It wasn’t even a question for me).
3. When I wanted to marry, my husband & I were in the military, which, due to military obligations, was making wedding arrangements & planning difficult. The husband & I wanted to do premarital counseling since we both came from families impacted by divorce & our decision to marry was quick: we just knew something about this was right.
4. The chaplain wouldn’t marry us because he wanted us to do premarital counseling together, & my husband had already gone to his next duty station. He wouldn’t do the counseling long- distance. He also felt we hadn’t known each other very long, but he gave us :thumbsup:a book to discuss topics of relevance to couples preparing for marriage. It was very helpful. I have a cousin who is a Baptist minister whom I d also asked if he’d perform our marriage ceremony, & as expected he refused. Since my husband was not Baptist, he would not perform the wedding ceremony for us.
5. My beliefs & my husband’s are that marriage is a covenant for life between a man & a woman as ordained by God. My husband was not a Christian at the time of our marriage then, but he became one later on in our marriage.
6. We have children, & they’re grown now.
7. In deciding to come into the Church, it caused friction on my marriage - especially where our marriage cane into question (We were married in a wedding chapel long ago). It was offensive to hear that we weren’t validly married. It took our parish priest to say that the Church wanted to bless our union for us to go forward with the convalidation.
8. Before our convalidation at least one of the sponsors from My RCIA group was asking me & another lady why we were putting off coming into the Church, & said something about our marriages akin to us living in sin (can’t remember his exact words), but it was disheartening, & made me wonder that if this is how I was viewed, why should I enter this Church? Why submit to such criticism?
9. It’s been a few years after our convalidation, & another former sponsor made a crack about how I was never married before, & frankly it hurts. My mom had suggested long ago that I marry in the Catholic Church, but I was Protestant then. It made no sense to me to marry Catholic as a non-Catholic.

I guess this talk about invalid marriages has made me feel ashamed about my marriage. I’ve gotten to a point where I wonder how to answer people who ask in Church how many years we’ve been married now. In my eyes & as of our last wedding anniversary, it’s been 29 years now, but only validly in the Church for 3 ((Our marriage was convalidated on our wedding anniversary). I love my husband, & I was happy coming into the Church, but lately, I have been avoiding going to mass…I don’t know what to do…

 

[pianistclare]

Your marriage was convalidated, if I read your post correctly.
It’s done.
Nothing to be upset about, no rude remarks to consider.

I wonder where the RCIA Director is when people make such sweeping statements that are not helpful nor charitable.

It’s been fixed in the eyes of the Church and God knows your heart.

What is really troubling you? You seem very well read and have a good grip on marriage teaching. What is it really that is upsetting you?

 

[Catholic1954]

I had a civil wedding and then it was convalidated 2 years later. We use the first date to determine how long we have been married because my daughter came along 10 months after the civil wedding and I didn’t want “Nosy Nellies” counting back the time and telling us shame on you for not being married in the Church at the time of her birth. IT WAS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS THEN AND IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS NOW IN YOUR SITUTION. When people ask you how long you have been married tell them 29 years; you are under no obligation to explain yourself or justify your convalidation to strangers or anyone else. We were in military also; thank you for your service. :tiphat:

 

[pianistclare]

I had a civil wedding and then it was convalidated 2 years later. We use the first date to determine how long we have been married because my daughter came along 10 months after the civil wedding and I didn’t want “Nosy Nellies” counting back the time and telling us shame on you for not being married in the Church at the time of her birth. IT WAS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS THEN AND IT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS NOW IN YOUR SITUTION. When people ask you how long you have been married tell them 29 years; you are under no obligation to explain yourself or justify your convalidation to strangers or anyone else. We were in military also; thank you for your service. :tiphat:

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I guess this talk about invalid marriages has made me feel ashamed about my marriage. I’ve gotten to a point where I wonder how to answer people who ask in Church how many years we’ve been married now. In my eyes & as of our last wedding anniversary, it’s been 29 years now, but only validly in the Church for 3 ((Our marriage was convalidated on our wedding anniversary). I love my husband, & I was happy coming into the Church, but lately, I have been avoiding going to mass…I don’t know what to do…

Your convalidation is nobody’s business besides your pastor’s. You can tell anyone that you have been married 29 years. It is no moral fault of yours if you married outside the Church when you didn’t know or understand the Church rules. Regret your actual sins, not imaginary scandals.

Avoiding Mass over this? After so many years? Maybe you should have a talk with your pastor. Reconcile with Christ, forget the past.

 

[MrsAngelala]

kainosktisis, I hear you. I just had my marriage to my Protestant husband convalidated a few weeks ago, and it was a horrible ordeal. I understand that the Church needs to protect the sanctity of the sacraments, but I could wish it didn’t have to be such a punitive and burdensome process. We may bear no actual fault if we didn’t know, but we’re sure treated as though we were at fault! In my case it first broke my spirit and then my mind, and here you are with a weight of anxiety so great that you’re turning away from God. Good heavens. Couldn’t there possibly be a better way?

My situation is slightly different; since we were both baptized at the time of our marriage, our marriage was originally valid (effective) but not licit (legal). We’ve been married for thirteen years; we’ve only been married according to form for two weeks. This means we’ve been married for thirteen years. Period. We’re not giving up our original anniversary, and we have no plans to celebrate the anniversary of the Catholic ceremony. Also, I’m grateful my pastor was discrete. Since I don’t really talk to anyone and I’m pretty sure he didn’t tell anyone, I don’t anticipate having to deal with your kind of situation.

I wonder if it will help you to consider how the sacrament actually works? Marriage is the only sacrament celebrated in its ordinary form with lay celebrants - the bride and groom. The priest or deacon acts as a witness for the Church, but does not marry the couple. It is the bride and groom who seal the covenant, privately, in such a manner that the only witness is God. So you need only be concerned with how God sees your marriage. He’s the only witness to the covenant itself.

A word on those sponsors. They had absolutely no business saying anything like that. But a key here to your anxiety about that kind of remark, and your sensitivity about the issue, is that *it’s keeping you from Mass. * However it is that God wants to use these people in your life, right now the Enemy has the upper hand.

Therefore, I would say there are a few things you should do.

• Forgive both of these sponsors.
• Talk to the latest sponsor if you find you’re able to do it charitably, and if you feel it’s still necessary after you forgive him or her. Don’t go in expecting an apology; but, one way you’ll know if you’re in the right place to have that kind of conversation is that you won’t need one!
• If you’ve missed any Sundays or Holy Days because of this, go to confession before receiving Communion again. Do volunteer the information about why you’ve stayed away from Mass. I don’t know about yours, but my confessor never asks any questions; you have a very human reason for your neglect, and I’d personally rather you didn’t have to deal with being misunderstood on top of the already heavy burden of shame you’re feeling.
• Go to Mass at the first opportunity, even if you can’t receive Communion yet. Staying away from Jesus is not going to solve your problem; it will only dig you deeper. If the people who have disturbed your peace don’t go to daily Mass, it would be well worth it to take a little time off of work and just get yourself in there.

Lord Jesus, we cherish the spouses you gave us, and our lives with them, as rightly we should. Please relieve us of other people’s burdens. We give to you as a love-offering our anxieties and fears and shame. We won’t leave you, and we won’t leave our husbands. Help us to bear it, Lord. Draw the people who have hurt us into a deeper relationship with you, and help us to remain a part of your own Bride, so that we may all join you in your wedding feast.

**

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am having trouble in dealing with this at the moment.

When I initially was going through RCIA a few years ago, I had no idea my marriage would cause any problems.

Some background:

1. I was baptized Catholic as an infant but was raised Protestant; I attended Catholic schools from grades 1-12. Mom is Catholic, Dad was not. They divorced by the time I was 10…I followed my Dad’s Protestant faith, & I was baptized at 16 in the Baptist church. I had not considered myself Catholic, but grew up with it, & while not completely understanding of many of the practices of the Catholic Church, respected the Church.
2. I had a class in high school on marriage & family life. To the best of my recollection from that time, I don’t remember civil marriage nor birth control discussed (It may or may not have been discussed: it just don’t remember). The primary lessons I got out of that class were that marriage is important, church marriage is best, & it is for life. As far as I was aware from my observations from my parents was that church marriage was preferred, but civil marriage was still ok (& I never learned otherwise). Both parents had married other people civilly (& later divorced), so I had assumed civil marriage to be ok (It wasn’t even a question for me).
3. When I wanted to marry, my husband & I were in the military, which, due to military obligations, was making wedding arrangements & planning difficult. The husband & I wanted to do premarital counseling since we both came from families impacted by divorce & our decision to marry was quick: we just knew something about this was right.
4. The chaplain wouldn’t marry us because he wanted us to do premarital counseling together, & my husband had already gone to his next duty station. He wouldn’t do the counseling long- distance. He also felt we hadn’t known each other very long, but he gave us :thumbsup:a book to discuss topics of relevance to couples preparing for marriage. It was very helpful. I have a cousin who is a Baptist minister whom I d also asked if he’d perform our marriage ceremony, & as expected he refused. Since my husband was not Baptist, he would not perform the wedding ceremony for us.
5. My beliefs & my husband’s are that marriage is a covenant for life between a man & a woman as ordained by God. My husband was not a Christian at the time of our marriage then, but he became one later on in our marriage.
6. We have children, & they’re grown now.
7. In deciding to come into the Church, it caused friction on my marriage - especially where our marriage cane into question (We were married in a wedding chapel long ago). It was offensive to hear that we weren’t validly married. It took our parish priest to say that the Church wanted to bless our union for us to go forward with the convalidation.
8. Before our convalidation at least one of the sponsors from My RCIA group was asking me & another lady why we were putting off coming into the Church, & said something about our marriages akin to us living in sin (can’t remember his exact words), but it was disheartening, & made me wonder that if this is how I was viewed, why should I enter this Church? Why submit to such criticism?
9. It’s been a few years after our convalidation, & another former sponsor made a crack about how I was never married before, & frankly it hurts. My mom had suggested long ago that I marry in the Catholic Church, but I was Protestant then. It made no sense to me to marry Catholic as a non-Catholic.

I guess this talk about invalid marriages has made me feel ashamed about my marriage. I’ve gotten to a point where I wonder how to answer people who ask in Church how many years we’ve been married now. In my eyes & as of our last wedding anniversary, it’s been 29 years now, but only validly in the Church for 3 ((Our marriage was convalidated on our wedding anniversary). I love my husband, & I was happy coming into the Church, but lately, I have been avoiding going to mass…I don’t know what to do…

I’m confused. Is your post about how it’s hard to deal with unwelcome comments? Ok, that’s easy. Either ignore them and shake it off, or flat out tell somebody to kind thier own business.
I must be missing something here because you seem to grasp the issue well.

Can you restate the problem?

 

[SyroMalankara]

It’s possible to request (for anyone reading this) a Radical Sanation, whereas the Bishop blesses the marriage as having occurred retroactively:

Assuming that there is nothing like a previous, putative marriage that needs to be taken care of first (through a decree of nullity), and assuming that you both still have valid matrimonial consent, your marriage can be rendered valid using a canon law procedure known as radical sanation.

This term comes from the Latin phrase sanatio in radice, meaning “healing in the root.” According to the Code of Canon Law, “The radical sanation of an invalid marriage is its convalidation without the renewal of consent” (CIC 1161:1). This means you do not have to go through a new marriage ceremony.

For a radical sanation to take place, several conditions must apply. First and most basically, “A radical sanation is not to be granted unless it is probable that the parties intend to persevere in conjugal life” (CIC 1161:3). If there is evidence the one or both of the parties intends anything less than a permanent marriage, radical sanation is ruled out.

Second, “A marriage cannot be radically sanated if consent is lacking in either or both of the parties” (CIC 1162:1). You and your spouse must have valid consent regarding your marriage, and this consent must exist simultaneously in the two of you. At some point you must have consented freely to the marriage in a way that did not exclude any of the essential properties of marriage (monogamy, fidelity, permanence, and openness to children). This consent is presumed to have been given in your marriage ceremony outside the Church unless there is evidence otherwise (CIC 1107), and the consent is presumed to exist at the present unless one party has indicated otherwise.

Third, any impediments that exist must be taken care of. Many of these can be resolved as part of the radical sanation itself. In general, “A marriage which is invalid due to an impediment or due to defect of legitimate form can be sanated provided the consent of each party continues to exist” (CIC 1163:1). This would apply in your case because your marriage was invalid due to a defect of form (you failed to get a dispensation for a marriage ceremony outside the Church).

Some impediments cannot be dispensed in this manner: “A marriage which is invalid due to an impediment of the natural law or of divine positive law can be sanated only after the impediment has ceased to exist” (CIC 1163:2). Examples of such impediments include having a previous marriage bond or total, permanent impotence (which is different from sterility). The first example can cease to exist if the previous spouse is dead or if one has obtained a decree of nullity to show that there never was a valid marriage in the first place.

If your spouse would have an extremely bad reaction to the sanation procedure, then, for the sake of domestic peace, he would not need to be told about it: “A sanation can be granted validly even when one or both of the parties are unaware of it, but it is not to be granted except for serious reason” (CIC 1164). The extreme reaction of your spouse could count as the serious reason needed for this.

Normally your local bishop would be the one granting the sanation: “In individual cases radical sanation can be granted by the diocesan bishop, even if several reasons for nullity exist in the same marriage, provided the conditions mentioned in canon 1125 concerning the sanation of a mixed marriage are fulfilled” (CIC 1165:2).

Chief among the latter is the condition that “the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power in order that all the children be baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church” (CIC 1125). In other words, you must promise to remain a Catholic and to do what you can to see that your children will be Catholics.

Call your parish priest or the marriage tribunal at your diocese to investigate obtaining a radical sanation.

 

[pianistclare]

The OP has stated this:

1. It’s been a few years after our convalidation, & another former sponsor made a crack about how I was never married before, & frankly it hurts. My mom had suggested long ago that I marry in the Catholic Church, but I was Protestant then. It made no sense to me to marry Catholic as a non-Catholic.

So it’s done.
There’s something else going on.

 

[Gorgias]

Call your parish priest or the marriage tribunal at your diocese to investigate obtaining a radical sanation.

As Clare mentioned, the marriage has already been convalidated. It’s valid. Sanation (which is just another method for validating a marriage) is unnecessary.

 

[kainosktisis]

Thank you all for your replies & your kindness in this delicate situation It’s given me something to think about. I addressed this with the person in question, & it is forgiven.

 

[pianistclare]

Thank you all for your replies & your kindness in this delicate situation It’s given me something to think about. I addressed this with the person in question, & it is forgiven.

Excellent. Welcome to the fora.

 

[Gorgias]

kainosktisis,

Mind if I ask a couple questions?

When I initially was going through RCIA a few years ago, I had no idea my marriage would cause any problems.

Just out of curiosity, what was your experience at Easter Vigil, following RCIA? The reason I ask is…

I was baptized Catholic as an infant but was raised Protestant; I attended Catholic schools from grades 1-12. Mom is Catholic, Dad was not. They divorced by the time I was 10…I followed my Dad’s Protestant faith, & I was baptized at 16 in the Baptist church.

… the reason I ask is that, if you attended Catholic school, did you receive First Holy Communion? Were you Confirmed?

If so, then RCIA would help re-acquaint you with the Catholic Church, but you would have already been a fully-initiated Catholic!

Perhaps you received First Holy Communion, but weren’t confirmed? In that case, Easter Vigil would’ve brought the Sacrament of Confirmation to you.

Both parents had married other people civilly (& later divorced), so I had assumed civil marriage to be ok (It wasn’t even a question for me).

As I’m guessing was explained to you, the Church requires that Catholics be married by a priest or deacon in a Catholic church (building). Depending on what sacraments you received as a child, the Church might very well consider you Catholic (albeit not practicing since childhood).

My husband was not a Christian at the time of our marriage then, but he became one later on in our marriage.

Sorry to pick nits, but… your husband is a *baptized *Christian now?

It was offensive to hear that we weren’t validly married. It took our parish priest to say that the Church wanted to bless our union for us to go forward with the convalidation.

It sounds like your pastor did a good job of explaining it in a way that was acceptable to ya’ll.

I’ve gotta wait until I hear your responses… but it seems that your pastor considered you already a Catholic, by virtue of your reception of the sacraments of initiation in the Church.

Before our convalidation at least one of the sponsors from My RCIA group

… It’s been a few years after our convalidation, & another former sponsor made a crack about how I was never married before

Personally, I think I’d have a talk with the RCIA director first, and the pastor next (if necessary), explaining how confusing and hurtful those comments are – especially coming from those who act as sponsors for incoming members of the Church. And, of course, suggesting that the RCIA director consider teaching a bit of ‘charity’ when addressing matters like these during RCIA.

I guess this talk about invalid marriages has made me feel ashamed about my marriage.

No reason for shame – you did the best you knew how back then, and the best you knew how now. That’s exactly what God asks of all of us!

I was happy coming into the Church, but lately, I have been avoiding going to mass…I don’t know what to do…

I would answer “29 years, thank you very much.” And please, continue to go to Mass. Don’t let them get you down!

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Sadly there are people in the Church (and not just the Catholics but Christianity in general) who use truth as a weapon to bring others down. Yes, you were in an invalid marriage, but you certainly did not have to knowledge necessary to be in mortal sin.

(Much as divorced Catholics who are granted annulments are not required to confess fornication, even though this is a judgment that they weren’t actually in a valid marriage.)

Happily, not all Christians are like this. Pope Francis himself, I am sure, would disapprove of the judgmental attitude of the people who are making a point of your marriage being invalid before. I also think he would pray for them, and I think that may help you achieve some peace.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It is disturbing to me that someone who is not only a Catholic but an RCIA sponsor would be so insensitive about a new convert’s marriage. Thank God that your pastor seems to be a much more understanding, sensitive and perceptive man.

I cannot figure out why, when the Bible specifically warns us about going around pointing out other people’s sins instead of taking care of our business, that people who are no relation to us, in other words not a parent or spouse or someone who might seriously be acting out of love and concern for our welfare and also knows us well enough to have some insight, just have to go around pointing out sins like they are some expert on the matter. Time and again Jesus rejected that kind of behavior. Your pastor sounds like he is more like Jesus in this situation and the other people either need some sensitivity training or are downright mean. If you can forgive them and forget about it, that’s best. And for heaven’s sake don’t let it stop you from coming to Mass…you’re going there to see Jesus, not all those other schmucks who should likewise be paying attention to Jesus and not to other folks’ business.

God bless you.

 

[Gorgias]

Thank you all for your replies & your kindness in this delicate situation It’s given me something to think about. I addressed this with the person in question, & it is forgiven.

K,

Your post, above, appeared after my last post asking you questions. I’m glad that you’ve taken the path of charity and healing. May God continue to bless you in your marriage!

 

[poche]

1. Before our convalidation at least one of the sponsors from My RCIA group was asking me & another lady why we were putting off coming into the Church, & said something about our marriages akin to us living in sin (can’t remember his exact words), but it was disheartening, & made me wonder that if this is how I was viewed, why should I enter this Church? Why submit to such criticism?

I think that this sponsor was insensitive at best. In your case I don’t believe that you were living in sin as if you were just shacking up. There is a huge difference between someone who is coming into the Church after years of living in a non Catholic life and someone who is living with total disregard for what the Church teaches.

 

[poche]

I guess this talk about invalid marriages has made me feel ashamed about my marriage. I’ve gotten to a point where I wonder how to answer people who ask in Church how many years we’ve been married now. In my eyes & as of our last wedding anniversary, it’s been 29 years now, but only validly in the Church for 3 ((Our marriage was convalidated on our wedding anniversary). I love my husband, & I was happy coming into the Church, but lately, I have been avoiding going to mass…I don’t know what to do…

Please come back to mass. The convalidation was in relation to a technicality. If someone asks how long you have been married you should say in relation to the original marriage.

 

[Vico]

I am having trouble in dealing with this at the moment.

When I initially was going through RCIA a few years ago, I had no idea my marriage would cause any problems. …

I guess this talk about invalid marriages has made me feel ashamed about my marriage. I’ve gotten to a point where I wonder how to answer people who ask in Church how many years we’ve been married now. In my eyes & as of our last wedding anniversary, it’s been 29 years now, but only validly in the Church for 3 ((Our marriage was convalidated on our wedding anniversary). I love my husband, & I was happy coming into the Church, but lately, I have been avoiding going to mass…I don’t know what to do…

It would be invalid because of this canon law CIC 1108 that baptized (Latin) Catholics are bound to observe. From 27 November 1983 through 21 December 21 2010 it was written differently than now (see blue), with an exception for formal defection, and 29 years ago is 1988, so it falls into that period. Nobody discussed the idea that you may have been formally defected being raised non-Catholic since age 10 at least?

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann 144, 1112, §1,1116, and 1127, §§1-2.

Can. 1117 The form established above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act, without prejudice to the prescripts of ⇒ can. 1127, §2.

 

[Phemie]

It would be invalid because of this canon law CIC 1108 that baptized (Latin) Catholics are bound to observe. From 27 November 1983 through 21 December 21 2010 it was written differently than now (see blue), with an exception for formal defection, and 29 years ago is 1988, so it falls into that period. Nobody discussed the idea that you may have been formally defected being raised non-Catholic since age 10 at least?
Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann 144, 1112, §1,1116, and 1127, §§1-2.

Can. 1117 The form established above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act, without prejudice to the prescripts of ⇒ can. 1127, §2.

Considering that one of the requirements for “formal defection” was that the baptismal parish be notified, it was probably not pertinent in the OP’s case.