Invalid Marriages and RCIA

[tinalewis]

All right everyone . . . this thread has gone beyond ridiculous.

I have given up writing posts on threads to support and offer prayers and encouragement to posters who find themselves in situations similar to what I found myself in two years ago.

If the Catholic church has not declared my husband free to marry, then I would not have become Catholic because I refuse to not honor my husband and our wedding vows. No one in parish where I was in RCIA would have expected me to abandon my husband if the tribunal’s decision had been different from what it was. And to those who question the tribunal’s examination, I guess you know better than they do.

At what point did this thread become all about ME??? Go back and offer your opinions to OP, not me.

 

[agapewolf]

All right everyone . . . this thread has gone beyond ridiculous.

I have given up writing posts on threads to support and offer prayers and encouragement to posters who find themselves in situations similar to what I found myself in two years ago.

If the Catholic church has not declared my husband free to marry, then I would not have become Catholic because I refuse to not honor my husband and our wedding vows. No one in parish where I was in RCIA would have expected me to abandon my husband if the tribunal’s decision had been different from what it was. And to those who question the tribunal’s examination, I guess you know better than they do.

At what point did this thread become all about ME??? Go back and offer your opinions to OP, not me.

No one is questioning the tribunals decision. That isn’t even part of this discussion.

You made a statement that is very disturbing, and it also was similar to other people’s situations. It warranted a discussion…because people seem to be forgetting the objective reality here.

You say if your husband never got his annulment, you would keep yourself from the sacraments…THAT is a problem. You would honor your “current marriage” (hypothetical) over God’s call to receive the sacrament. Even though, there really wouldn’t be a current marriage, because the vows couldn’t be valid, because he was already married to someone else. WHy do YOUR vows count, but his didn’t in his previous marriage?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

No one is questioning the tribunals decision. That isn’t even part of this discussion.

actually you did question that see if the hubby was married the tribunal would have no authority so when you said he was married you countered the tribunals decision which was he was NEVER (EVER) married.

You made a statement that is very disturbing, and it also was similar to other people’s situations. It warranted a discussion…because people seem to be forgetting the objective reality here.

You say if your husband never got his annulment, you would keep yourself from the sacraments…

not exactly

.THAT is a problem. You would honor your “current marriage” (hypothetical) over God’s call to receive the sacrament. Even though, there really wouldn’t be a current marriage, because the vows couldn’t be valid,

by whose authority is this spoken? The tribunal ruled no marriage

because he was already married to someone else. WHy do YOUR vows count, but his didn’t in his previous marriage?

HER VOWS COUNT BECAUSE SHE ENTERED A COVENANT WITH GOD AND A HUSBAND

 

[agapewolf]

ANd you are missing my whole point.

She began with a stated hypothetical. I was continuing the discussion based on the HYPOTHETICAL. IF her husband had not received the annulment, then what would have happened. It’s a worthy discussion.

Yes, it was EXACTLY as I said…she said, she wouldnt’ become catholic if her husband didn’t get an annulment. That is keeping oneself from the sacraments. This is disturbing.

 

[pandacordova]

tinalewis, Texas Roofer

Thank you for your supportive replies

agapewolf,

I am praying that you will use the graces you receive from the sacraments that you are privileged to receive to try and develop a spirit of charity

 

[Dbaba]

10,000 posts is quite impresive

 

[agapewolf]

tinalewis, Texas Roofer

Thank you for your supportive replies

agapewolf,

I am praying that you will use the graces you receive from the sacraments that you are privileged to receive to try and develop a spirit of charity

I have posted nothing uncharitable. How exactly is it uncharitable to ask about the first vows given? If anything, it is charitable to bring up discussion points when someone says they choose the spouse over God. That is what charity is.

and who has 10,000 posts? what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I have posted nothing uncharitable. How exactly is it uncharitable to ask about the first vows given? If anything, it is charitable to bring up discussion points when someone says they choose the spouse over God. That is what charity is.

and who has 10,000 posts? what does that have to do with anything?

Many a catholic and non catholic alike receive a great deal of uncharitable comments on this subject. These are children of god who answered god’s call, made one covenant with god and are fully honoring that covenant. I am sorry that is a problem for you however it is simply not your issue. In practically all these cases if we stop advising drastic measures and replace those with a proper education and process, we can develop a full communion.

 

[alex2co]

The Church is filled with Saints who have chosen to live celibately. Choosing celibacy because of one’s love for Christ and His Church is noble. You would not be made to be an outcast if you did this. This is the path for many adult converts.
While it is difficult, and takes a huge amount of heroic virtue when it is chosen by both husband and wife, out of love for each other and love for Christ, and the Sacraments, it shouldn’t be hurtful.

I’m pretty sure I read about some of these couples’ conversion stories in Patrick Madrid’s series: Surprised by Truth.

---

“Lord I believe. Help my unbelief.”***

My spouse and I are in a similar situation. I am Protestant and am going through RCIA now.I was never married before but my spouse was a divorced Catholic whose first marriage was not annuled. We have begun the annulment process, but it won’t be done before Easter. We have decided to live as brother and sister which at our age is fine. Am I right to think I can still be accepted into the Church at Easter because we are living as brother and sister? I am sure the annulment will go through eventually, but it will take another year at least.

 

[twopekinguys]

Is there some way that people going through the RCIA process can at least receive the Sacrament of Baptism when they have a presumed invalid marriage? As a teacher for RCIA one of the most disappointing things is when a person is interested in becoming Catholic, but we cannot give them the sacraments because they (or their spouse) was presumed to be validly married before and then remarried after a divorce without an anulment.

In particular this one situation happened at our church and it saddened me that we could do no more for her: The woman was raised without any religion. The man was raised Catholic, married in the Catholic Church and then divorced. A few years later the woman and the man together had a civil marriage and then had children together. Then many years later the woman wanted to become Catholic, but could not because her husband was unwilling to seek an anulment for his first marriage. She attend Mass regularly (and of course cannot receive communion). I am fine with her not being able to receive the Holy Eucharist, but shouldn’t she be able to be Baptized? I am proud of the fact that our faith holds marriage in such high regard, but this particular situation seems to be unfair.

You have started quite a lively thread here…LOL

While you have received alot of good information regarding the sacrament of marriage, annullments, etc. it looks like one question has not been asked.

Is the husbands first spouse still living? If not, that puts things into a whole different category.

I am the lay director of our parish’s RCIA program, and I know how these situations tug at our heart strings.

We see people longing for the sacraments with all of their heart and soul, but yet, we have to help them face up to past issues. It’s hard I know, but it is something we have to do.

God Bless

 

[Dbaba]

Dec 20, '09, 7:54 pm
1ke
Veteran Member

Join Date: May 25, 2004
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 10,741
Religion: Catholic
Re: Invalid Marriages and RCIA

1ke has 10,741 posts!

That is to be commended for all the help they must give.

 

[peary]

Is there some way that people going through the RCIA process can at least receive the Sacrament of Baptism when they have a presumed invalid marriage? As a teacher for RCIA one of the most disappointing things is when a person is interested in becoming Catholic, but we cannot give them the sacraments because they (or their spouse) was presumed to be validly married before and then remarried after a divorce without an anulment.

In particular this one situation happened at our church and it saddened me that we could do no more for her: The woman was raised without any religion. The man was raised Catholic, married in the Catholic Church and then divorced. A few years later the woman and the man together had a civil marriage and then had children together. Then many years later the woman wanted to become Catholic, but could not because her husband was unwilling to seek an anulment for his first marriage. She attend Mass regularly (and of course cannot receive communion). I am fine with her not being able to receive the Holy Eucharist, but shouldn’t she be able to be Baptized? I am proud of the fact that our faith holds marriage in such high regard, but this particular situation seems to be unfair.

What I personally find sad is that her husband was so bull-headed that he was unwilling to seek an annulment for his first marriage. He was responsible to do this so that his relationship could be made holy with his ‘new’ wife. But I see no reason as to why she cannot be baptized. But then again, if she is baptized Catholic, she is placed in a unique predicament of adultery because the present marriage is not valid, and an annulment will be necessary. Her husband needs to 'fess up and get it together. She should push her husband in that direction. That’s just my opinion.

 

[lissa70]

Is the husbands first spouse still living? If not, that puts things into a whole different category.

The husband’s first spouse is still living. We did (in that same year) have the situation where the female participant was divorced and remarried, but her first spouse was deceased. Although the first spouse died after her marriage to the second, it did not prevent her from receiving the sacraments.

 

[twopekinguys]

The husband’s first spouse is still living. We did (in that same year) have the situation where the female participant was divorced and remarried, but her first spouse was deceased. Although the first spouse died after her marriage to the second, it did not prevent her from receiving the sacraments.

Well, there went that idea.

 

[Rachel_1]

I suppoprt you completely on this. When my husband and I were married a long time ago, we made our vows to each that we have faithfully and happily kept. This was long before I wanted to become Catholic. If my husband’s annulment hadn’t come through, today I wouldn’t be a Catholic, but I would never abandon my husband for my desire to join the Catholic church. To me that’s completely disrespecting my husband, to whom years ago I made a vow just as binding to my heart as the one I made when we were married in the Catholic church last year.

You are in my prayers . . as are all RCIA and potential-RCIA candidates in similar heartbreaking situations.

I guess I see it different.
I don’t see it as abandoning my husband to join the Catholic church, I see it as doing the right thing before God, and putting God and what God wants ahead of what I want.
I’m really not trying to be a downer here, let me explain.
I’m in RCIA right now. I’ve been married several times and started the annulment process which I was told could take 3-4 years because of the weird situations. Throughout the process I had to make some very difficult decisions, what is more important to me? What do I put first in my life? Things like this.
I decided, for me, that God should be first and foremost in my life, and I should do all I can to follow what God wants me to do. Family second.
I prayed and prayed and prayed… not for a favorable tribunal decision, but I prayed that whatever God wanted to happen would, and I determined that I would follow whatever decision was handed down by the tribunal in my case, no matter what that meant.
I’ve spent a lot of money gathering documents, getting my heart right, and making very tough choices. 2 months ago I had a talk with my husband (who btw is pagan). I explained to him that there is a possibility that we are living in sin, and that it’s my fault (he’s never been married before). I also explained what I needed to do to resolve the situation and that until it’s resolved, I felt that we should hold off relations until we know what the tribunal says. He was understanding when we had the talk… of course, as time went by, he was frustrated etc (understandably), but he still understood that this was something that I felt had to be done.
During this process of ‘living as brother and sister’, he’s prayed, he went to RCIA with me once, and even last week went to Mass for the first time ever… keep in mind, this is a man that is pagan verging on atheist! What my decision did for him was at least open him up to the fact that there is a God if I’m this serious about my faith, and hopefully will bring him to God in the end.
All that being said, after all the praying both of us did, I found out today, out of the blue, that when my RCIA instructor called the tribunal on my situation to start the process that I don’t have to go through the entire process because of two situations. 1) I was baptized Catholic as a baby, so the prior marriages are lack of form which is very easy to resolve, and 2) even if I would have had to go through it, because my first husband passed away in 2003 it makes the other (still living) marriage invalid, and my current marriage (2005) valid. So all we have to do is have the marriage blessed and I’m all set.
The reason I explained all of this is that I feel that because I put God first, and admitted that I messed up bad and also may have messed things up for my husband that God worked it all out, not only with my marriage, but also helping to bring my husband closer to God.
If the situation were reversed and my husband was the one needing the annulment, I would still put God first.

 

[psr13]

I had to stop RCIA since dh needs a defect of form annulment. It’s a very easy one to get, but he couldn’t get his baptism certificate from the Philippines in time for the diocese imposed time limit in order for me to continue with RCIA. Sometimes arbitrary guidelines should be scraped. I understand that the annulment would have to be granted before I could enter the Church; however, there is no reason for that time limit in a case such as this.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I had to stop RCIA since dh needs a defect of form annulment. It’s a very easy one to get, but he couldn’t get his baptism certificate from the Philippines in time for the diocese imposed time limit in order for me to continue with RCIA. Sometimes arbitrary guidelines should be scraped. I understand that the annulment would have to be granted before I could enter the Church; however, there is no reason for that time limit in a case such as this.

Please do not stop RCIA there would be no need to stop. You could recieve sacraments with celibacy, however you could also complete your part and then wait until the marriage issue is correct (anulment plus blessing) then the priest can allow your sacraments. Under the latter the priest could easily allow you to full communion regardless of what day. If you drop RCIA the priest will probably send you back to RCIA after the corrected marriage.

 

[psr13]

Please do not stop RCIA there would be no need to stop. You could recieve sacraments with celibacy, however you could also complete your part and then wait until the marriage issue is correct (anulment plus blessing) then the priest can allow your sacraments. Under the latter the priest could easily allow you to full communion regardless of what day. If you drop RCIA the priest will probably send you back to RCIA after the corrected marriage.

The priest said we could not continue if the paperwork were not turned in by the deadline. We had to drop out of it.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

The priest said we could not continue if the paperwork were not turned in by the deadline. We had to drop out of it.

That is very disappointing to hear, and rather unusual. I would encourage you to speak with the head of RCIA and consider you and that person appraching the priest. RCIA is about preparation and everybody should be prepared as best we can prepare them. Many share your situation and they typically stay in a prolonged preparation because of their personnal situation. These people often cannot participate in Rites and sacraments until their outstanding issues are cleared. The priest needs to provide an answer why he thinks unprepared people are better off.

 

[mswood]

The priest said we could not continue if the paperwork were not turned in by the deadline. We had to drop out of it.

I am suprised by that. At my parish everyone is welcome into the RCIA even those waiting for annulments, they are not allowed to take part in the rites of initiation until the previous marriage has been cleared up and the current marriage convalidated but they are not asked the leave the RCIA program. They are actually encourged to stay in the program until they are able to fully join the church.