Invalid mass?

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If several priests are celebrating mass, and one of the cups has Welch’s grape juice (used by one of the priests), while the others have wine, is the mass invalid? If a lay person is aware of this fact, should they receive communion?
 
Validity doesn’t refer to Mass. It refers to whether or not a Sacrament was confected. In the case you mention, the cup containing grape juice would not be validly consecrated, whereas the others would. If a layman knew this was going on, he should probably avoid receiving the chalice.

Why, pray tell, would this even happen?

-Fr ACEGC
 
Concur with [user]edward_george[/user].

However, in case this is a less-than-hypothetical question:
Some priests are in recovery from alcoholism, and may have permission to consecrate with mustum (which is not quite Welch’s, but close). I believe (but may be mistaken) that in such cases, they may even concelebrate utilizing mustum (which would typically be consumed only by the priest in question).

tee
Any or every thing written above may be mistaken
 
Concur with [user]edward_george[/user].

However, in case this is a less-than-hypothetical question:
Some priests are in recovery from alcoholism, and may have permission to consecrate with mustum (which is not quite Welch’s, but close). I believe (but may be mistaken) that in such cases, they may even concelebrate utilizing mustum (which would typically be consumed only by the priest in question).

tee
Any or every thing written above may be mistaken
lay people are also permitted to receive muscadene wine for communion. so the priest could also be consecrating it for them. you never know what the reasons are, alcoholism, allergies or some other kind of intolerance

Welch’s doen’st really make the cut though
 
Concur with [user]edward_george[/user].

However, in case this is a less-than-hypothetical question:
Some priests are in recovery from alcoholism, and may have permission to consecrate with mustum (which is not quite Welch’s, but close). I believe (but may be mistaken) that in such cases, they may even concelebrate utilizing mustum (which would typically be consumed only by the priest in question).

tee
Any or every thing written above may be mistaken
Mustum can easily be mistaken for regular grape juice - I did the first time I had it.
 
If several priests are celebrating mass, and one of the cups has Welch’s grape juice (used by one of the priests), while the others have wine, is the mass invalid? If a lay person is aware of this fact, should they receive communion?
Welch’s Grape Juice is homogenized (that was their big claim to fame back when they began applying the process to grape juice.) It’s not valid matter for use in the Mass.

The Mass is still valid. I feel sorry for any priest doing this.
 
Welch’s Grape Juice is homogenized (that was their big claim to fame back when they began applying the process to grape juice.) It’s not valid matter for use in the Mass.
Pasteurized, so it won’t ferment. Mustum is not pasteurized.
 
If several priests are celebrating mass, and one of the cups has Welch’s grape juice (used by one of the priests), while the others have wine, is the mass invalid? If a lay person is aware of this fact, should they receive communion?
I believe it MAY be permitted! The church DOES permit a type of grape juice known as:
Mustum (can not be bought at a regular supermarket), that does contain a tiny amount of alcohol created in the first moments when the juice is squeezed. The priest may NOT decide to do this on his own, but only with advance permission of the Ordinary (bishop, or certain other diocesan officials). A priest MUST receive under BOTH species if he is the PRINCIPAL celebrant of the Mass and therefore IF an alcoholic priest can NOT consume wine and he does NOT have access to Mustum he can NOT be a PRINCIPAL celebrant of a Mass. IF he can manage to dip the consecrated host into the wine he may do that IF NOT then he may ONLY be a CONCELEBRANT at Mass as ONLY the PRINCIPAL celebrant must receive under BOTH species. Concelebrants can OPT to receive just the consecrated host or consecrated blood.
 
Some priests are in recovery from alcoholism, and may have permission to consecrate with mustum (which is not quite Welch’s, but close).
It might be better described for the circumstances as, “wine of very minimal fermentation which, left to itself, would continue to ferment.” (Even that I’ not sure of, as I think [but am not sure] that the yeast can filtered out and still use it in the liturgy. Note that yeast naturally occurs on grapes, of the correct type, although all but a small handful of modern vintners add yeast to accelerate active fermentation.)

A couple of years ago, err, many years ago, I thought that the cup I was holding as a Eucharistic Minister at my Jesuit college smelled strongly of grape juice.

After communion, the priest explained that if you’d encountered that particular cup, there was a reason. Part of the treatment he’d received involved giving the subject alternating glasses of their favorite drink and warm salt water to drink–conditioning the priest to vomit on smelling his preferred poison . . . and the further comment that this was a really bad idea at the altar 🙂

Note that this was in the '80s, before the rules were settled. Also, I doubt that the salt water thing was actually a good idea therapeutically, but what do I know?

As a side note, I used to get an occasional glass of canned zinfandel grape juice from my grandmother (after the winery folks paid & picked from their vineyard, she’d go in a couple of weeks later an pick the late ripening ones). You would never mistake that kind of “big red” for Welches . . . it would actually etch the mason jar! (and once my grapes out back produce enough, some will get held back from winemaking for juice production).

And while on Welches . . . my baptist Protestant Theology professor was raised in one of the “unfermented wine” Baptist groups. He said he got in trouble growing up for not understanding why Jesus got flack for “too much Welches” 🙂

AMDG

hawk
 
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