Invalid weddings for those baptized but not raised Catholic?

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Then, without being flippant, they have the “short route out” if it doesn’t work… I guess we just file that under the “Justice and Mercy Conundrum” file.

Thanks!
“Short route out” of what? They weren’t married in the first place; so I suppose it would be the “short route out” of a relationship of living in sin, perhaps into another … how can that be good?

Those who marry according to God’s plan — chastity before marriage, a sacramental marriage, open to life — have a better chance of having it “work” to begin with.
 
This all seems so complicated. I’m reading through and wondering if a Christian marriage requires both partners to first obtain a degree in theology?

Hasn’t the RCC over complicated this issue?

Does it really matter if two baptized Catholics marry in a Baptist Church?

Who are men to say that they’re marriage is invalid in the eyes of God?
 
“Short route out” of what?
For one thing, they will miss out on all the wonderful things that come with the full-blown annulment procedure: psychological healing :rolleyes:, self-discovery :confused:, and spiritual growth :dts: that will help avoid similar problems :banghead: in future marriages.

Where is the :sarcasm: smiley when you need it?
 
“Short route out” of what? They weren’t married in the first place; so I suppose it would be the “short route out” of a relationship of living in sin, perhaps into another … how can that be good?
all marriages are presumed to be valid, and if capable of being sacramental, are presumed sacramental until shown otherwise. Rightly, wrongly or indifferently, for one wgho is baptized Catholic, they are required to follow Church corm (marriage witnessed by a priest or deacon) unless specifically allowed otherwise.

Someone who is nominally Catholic - baptized as an infant but never catechized, e.g., must follow this form. Failing to do so, if the marriage (which is putatively valid and sacramental) ends up in a divorce, they have the short route through a determination that it was null sacramentally by showing their failure to follow form. The alternative for most people is a hearing by a tribunal, which is then reviewed by a second tribunal. that takes, on average, a year or more; given recent statistics on who has received a decree of nullity, it looks like about a 45% chance of receiving one.
Those who marry according to God’s plan — chastity before marriage, a sacramental marriage, open to life — have a better chance of having it “work” to begin with.
I most certainly do not disagree with you, and I hope that you did not take my comment as doing so. I have not gone back and reviewed the OP, but I believe the scenario presented was one of a person baptized as a child, not catechised, later marrying “outside” the Church.

We are all pretty good at getting ourselves into messes; usually it is through sin. In this case, for one who was never catechized, that is harder to pin down; however, given a divorce rate of around 50% for first time marriages, @ 65% for second and higher as one goes along, it is a reality of life. Not one to be wished on a dog, let alone a person. But a reality still.

Those who live according to God’s plan to have a much better choice. And sometimes they marry someone who didn’t, or doesn’t.

If the statistics for those simply shacking up carry over to marriage (and I have seen the statistics of the former, but not the latter), then those who don’t follow God’s plan before marriage - chastity - are even higher at risk than a 50% chance. But that is fodder for another post.

As to whether they were married in the first place, it helps to be careful with language. They certainly were recognized as married by the state and the federal governement; possibly by the bank, and most likely by friends and neighbors. That they did not have a sacramental marriage is most likely - always subject to review by a tribunal to assure that the facts are really thus. But to simply say they were not married, without distinguishing what you mean by the term “married” is to muddy the waters.
 
This all seems so complicated. I’m reading through and wondering if a Christian marriage requires both partners to first obtain a degree in theology?

Hasn’t the RCC over complicated this issue?

Does it really matter if two baptized Catholics marry in a Baptist Church?

Who are men to say that they’re marriage is invalid in the eyes of God?
One Man said it:
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
 
I ask this question because all my nephews and my niece were baptized Catholic but never raised Catholic (and their parents never intended to raise them Catholic) and it wouldn’t even occur to them to consider themselves Catholic. Does this mean that, from the Catholic point of view, their marriages outside the church are invalid (non sacramental)?
Most of these situations would be subjective to each circumstance. God doesn’t hold us to what we don’t know. We cannot sin on accident. If they don’t know they are bound to the form, they are not sinning.

I would compare it to someone who lived faithfully in what was later found to be an invalid marriage. They were not fornicating because they believed themselves to be married, and on a civil level they are married (from a contractual POV.)

Understanding validity/invalidity, sacramental/non-sacramental can be confusing at times. Really, the “Catholic POV” is just following God’s mighty hand. Either He joins a couple or He doesn’t. We, as humans, either are married or we attempted to be married.

The marriages may or may not be valid. And if they are valid they may or may not be sacramental depending on the state of baptism of the spouse.
 
Hasn’t the RCC over complicated this issue?
Nope, She has simplified it. It has only become complicated since other Christian communities have attempted to confer marriage in situations where it was impossible (for example on the divorced.)
Does it really matter if two baptized Catholics marry in a Baptist Church?
Yes it does. Does it really matter if two Baptists get married in Vegas? Does the Elvis impersonator have the proper authority to confer a valid marriage on a Baptist? Would two Baptists submit to the authority of the Catholic Church?
Who are men to say that they’re marriage is invalid in the eyes of God?
If you could please define “men” here that would help. If you mean ‘Who is The Church to say their marriage is invalid in the eyes of God?’ then we have a discussion. If you subscribe to Sola Scriptura could you please show from Scripture the precise formula and vows for how to enter marriage?
 
Nope, She has simplified it. It has only become complicated since other Christian communities have attempted to confer marriage in situations where it was impossible (for example on the divorced.)

******If you have enough money, as a Catholic, you can pay for an annulment.
If you subscribe to Sola Scriptura could you please show from Scripture the precise formula and vows for how to enter marriage?
****I don’t subscribe to sola scriptura, although I do see the institutional strangle hold that the Church holds on its members in all matters of faith and salvation.
 
******If you have enough money, as a Catholic, you can pay for an annulment.
Who on earth gave you that idea? A Decree of Nullity isn’t “paid for.” A presumed marriage is investigated for validity according to canon law. Sorry but those canon lawyers gotta eat. They wish they could do it for free.
****I don’t subscribe to sola scriptura, although I do see the institutional strangle hold that the Church holds on its members in all matters of faith and salvation.
Strangle hold? The Church has a strangle hold over me? Hmmm. About 15 years ago I started to walk away from the Church. I still have free will. The only one who had a “strangle hold” on me was God. That powerful hug brought me right back to His Church.

To whose authority do you submit?
 
I was baptized and raised in a semi-feminist enviroment. Only being told that I am Catholic(I didn’t know what that entailed). I am bound for hell, at least until my RCIA in September or at least until I can get the marriage convalidated.

Claire from DE,

Your nephews and neice could get their marriage convalidated
I’m glad to hear you are going to RCIA May God Bless You.
Blessings
 
I was baptized and raised in a semi-feminist enviroment. Only being told that I am Catholic(I didn’t know what that entailed). I am bound for hell, at least until my RCIA in September or at least until I can get the marriage convalidated.

Claire from DE,

Your nephews and neice could get their marriage convalidated
But it would never occur to them to want to do so. They don’t even think about considering themselves Catholic.
 
This, however does not answer the original question. Is someone who is baptized Catholic but not catechized and not raised Catholic (and who may not identify themselves as Catholic) bound by the rule that the marriage must be witnessed by a priest or deacon? It is my understanding that one who officially leaves the Church is no longer bound; but is a total lack of connection other than infant baptism sufficient to bind to the regulation?
That was my original question. So I guess the answer is yes. The only way they would have a valid sacramental marriage is if they fell in love with a Catholic and married in the church. I wonder how the priest would handle that-- a Catholic who doesn’t consider himself to be one but isn’t antagonistic to the church. I doubt they would have a nuptial mass since he hasn’t received communion before (well, maybe once or twice at a funeral). Such a sad and confusing situation.
 
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