Invalidly married brother

[celt91]

Hello,

I have a question about how I can best act in accordance with my faith in my family dynamic.

I have a brother who married outside of the Church a couple of years ago, and I did not attend the wedding because of not wanting to support an invalid marriage. I was not honest with him and his then fiance about why I didn’t go and I know that wasn’t the right thing to do, but it was a moment of weakness. Other members of my family know why I didn’t attend and it has caused some hard feelings, but such is life.

Anyways they live quite far away and coming up in September my brother is receiving an award and promotion (he is military) and my family very much wants me to go. I believe they plan on staying with them at their home for most or all of the week long trip. I tried finding something that addresses the question directly but couldn’t find anything. I know we should not encourage or approve of an invalid marriage so as not to cause scandal, but could staying at their house for a few days be seen as approval of the marriage? I feel as though it could but was looking to get insight. If they were to stay at my home I would politely inform them they would have to stay in seperate rooms, however I haven’t discussed my views of the marriage with my brother at all(a bridge to cross later). The closest resource I found was a pamphlet from a redemptionist priest that states you shouldn’t spend vacations with ( which this would be) an invalidly married couple or invite them to spend the night at your own home etc. It is titled how to act towards invalidly married catholics, i am unable to put links in my post apparently.

Any moral theologians here?!

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and please pray for me and my family, I would appreciate it.

 

[Beryllos]

What reason do you have to suspect their marriage is invalid?

 

[CRV]

From what you wrote my take on it is that your brother is married validly but not licitly. It is a valid marriage (registry office/ wedding venue etc), but not a sacramental one as is lacking in canonical form.

Could you not attend the award & promotion ceremony, and as other family members will be staying with him, could you not say that you have decided it is best if you stay at a motel/hotel/elsewhere? If you can do that, then I think that would solve your problem. If there is to be an afterwards dinner/celebration I would think you could attend that as that would be no different to celebrating his birthday.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

Anyways they live quite far away and coming up in September my brother is receiving an award and promotion (he is military) and my family very much wants me to go. I believe they plan on staying with them at their home

Your brother wants you there or other relatives do? Do you want to go? Why are you so insistent upon taking a stand about your brother’s marital status when you’ve never discussed it with him? That seems quite odd and dishonest.

From what you wrote my take on it is that your brother is married validly but not licitly. It is a valid marriage (registry office/ wedding venue etc), but not a sacramental one as is lacking in canonical form.

I don’t see how you reached this conclusion, but if they are lacking canonical form and everything else is as the OP stated (no misconceptions), it is an invalid marriage.

 

[edward_george1]

From what you wrote my take on it is that your brother is married validly but not licitly. It is a valid marriage (registry office/ wedding venue etc), but not a sacramental one as is lacking in canonical form.

@CRV, @Cor_ad_Cor is correct. A Catholic is bound by canonical form, and so to marry outside of canonical form without the proper dispensation means the marriage is invalid, not only not sacramental (by the same token, there can be a valid marriage which is not sacramental, as in the case of a Catholic who lawfully marries a non-baptized person).

-Fr ACEGC

 

[SeekSalvation]

Father, what if you married outside the church (county court house) a christian women, divorced because that women left you, remarried outside the church (county court house) a Catholic women, is any of that valid?

 

[edward_george1]

A Catholic is bound by canonical form. If a Catholic marries outside the Church without dispensation, that marriage is invalid. So if a Catholic married someone in a courthouse ceremony, they married invalidly. In this case, both times were invalid marriages. If this person wished to marry in the Church (presumably to the second wife), then it would be relatively easy to do. All you would have to do is produce documentation of the first marriage and subsequent divorce, and show that you are a Catholic, who thus contracted marriage invalidly. This is called a “documentary case,” and does not involve the full process that is necessary when the tribunal investigates some impediment to marriage.

Call your pastor. Living in an invalid marriage is an objective state of grave sin.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[CRV]

I know a catholic is bound to marry in the Church - canonical form.

But due to someone close to me marrying outside the Church, who is a lapsed Catholic and doesn’t have much knowledge of the Faith, I was told by my PP who is a canon lawyer that this persons marriage is valid - but lacking canonical form (and could be more rectified if and when [hopefully] they return to the Church). As far as I know the person they married is not baptized. So my understanding is that the marriage is valid but not licit due to the lack of canonical form, based on what I was told.

Edited to add:- it is quite possible I’ve gotten the terms mixed up and also misunderstood what he said.
I thought this persons marriage was not licit that is not lawful according to the Church. But was a valid marriage due to both parties freely consenting to the marriage, and there was no legal impediments, but with just the canonical form lacking. So as this is how I understand it, am I mistaken? (I’m referring to the person close to me, and not the OP situation).

 

[CRV]

Nevermind Father (@edward_george1 ), after much thought I realize I shouldn’t trust and rely on what I’m told, that the information is right/true - therefore for the good of souls I will refrain from posting based on this and will instead post only based on CCC and Church documents.

OP, please ignore my earlier comments.

 

[halogirl]

I think you are way overthinking this. Go and spend time with your family

 

[Wozza]

To avoid future problems when someone asks you to stay over, maybe what you should do is make a list of all the things that would preclude you from doing do. Then send it to the people concerned and ask them to fill it in and return it to you. You can then make an informed decision. Something like:

Have you now or have you ever:

Had sex with someone who wasn’t your spouse?
Used contraception?
Had an abortion?
Used illegal drugs?
Had sex with no consideration of being open to conception?
Not believed in God?
Blasphemed?

You can add more as you see fit.

As an aside, I am in northern France at the moment. My wife and I went to see where the Normandy landings took place yesterday. We visited each of the beaches. As you drive along the coast, every lampost or telegraph pole has a picture of one of the men who were involved in the landings. Each picture says ‘Hero of World War II’ and has their name. There are tens of thousands down each road, on each street, down every alley way.

What is doesn’t say is what religion, if any, they had. It doesn’t say if their marriage was acceptable to Catholics either. Because it didn’t matter. They were men who literally gave their lives for their country.

Your brother is serving his country. With honour it seems. Go to his house, give him a hug and tell him how proud you are of him. Treat him with the respect he deserves.

 

[Irishmom2]

We are all sinners. Do not judge your brothers sins. Just go and love him. Show him you are proud of his service. You being there or not does not change his marriage, so you are missing out on sharing in your family’s life and history when you don’t participate. Do all things with love.

 

[Psalm30]

I know we should not encourage or approve of an invalid marriage so as not to cause scandal, but could staying at their house for a few days be seen as approval of the marriage?

You are being very legalistic. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for things like this. Go and show support for your brother.

 

[Psalm30]

To avoid future problems when someone asks you to stay over, maybe what you should do is make a list of all the things that would preclude you from doing do. Then send it to the people concerned and ask them to fill it in and return it to you. You can then make an informed decision. Something like:

Have you now or have you ever:

Had sex with someone who wasn’t your spouse?
Used contraception?
Had an abortion?
Used illegal drugs?
Had sex with no consideration of being open to conception?
Not believed in God?
Blasphemed?

You can add more as you see fit.

As an aside, I am in northern France at the moment. My wife and I went to see where the Normandy landings took place yesterday. We visited each of the beaches. As you drive along the coast, every lampost or telegraph pole has a picture of one of the men who were involved in the landings. Each picture says ‘Hero of World War II’ and has their name. There are tens of thousands down each road, on each street, down every alley way.

What is doesn’t say is what religion, if any, they had. It doesn’t say if their marriage was acceptable to Catholics either. Because it didn’t matter. They were men who literally gave their lives for their country.

Your brother is serving his country. With honour it seems. Go to his house, give him a hug and tell him how proud you are of him. Treat him with the respect he deserves.

Well said.

 

[1ke]

but could staying at their house for a few days be seen as approval of the marriage?

Go visit your brother. Stay at his house if you are invited. Stay in a hotel if there isn’t room.

Catholics are NOT called to shun those in objectively sinful states of life.

From what you wrote my take on it is that your brother is married validly but not licitly. It is a valid marriage (registry office/ wedding venue etc), but not a sacramental one as is lacking in canonical form.

No @CRV this isn’t correct.

If a Catholic marriage lacks form it is invalid, not illicit.

It’s a civil marriage but the Church would not consider this couple married at all.

 

[1ke]

If they were to stay at my home I would politely inform them they would have to stay in seperate rooms, however I haven’t discussed my views of the marriage with my brother at all(a bridge to cross later).

That would be unrealistic and very rude.

It is possible to make your beliefs known while still being kind. I have all sorts of living situations in my family on my dad’s side (cohabitation, marriage/divorce, etc.) and everyone knows I am “very Catholic” (as they say) and what I believe. But I stay with family and they stay with me, and it’s possible to both disagree with their choices and love them and welcome them.

 

[1ke]

The closest resource I found was a pamphlet from a redemptionist priest that states you shouldn’t spend vacations with ( which this would be) an invalidly married couple or invite them to spend the night at your own home etc.

And while I agree that there would be situations where you could avoid couples trips with friends and acquaintances (not that you would be required to but where it might be prudent to), this is your FAMILY. It’s not the same thing at all.

This is a matter of prudential judgment. I don’t think the approach you are taking is the right one. That’s my opinion on the matter.

 

[angel12]

I have a brother who married outside of the Church a couple of years ago, and I did not attend the wedding because of not wanting to support an invalid marriage. I was not honest with him and his then fiance about why I didn’t go and I know that wasn’t the right thing to do, but it was a moment of weakness.

If you haven’t talked to your brother about his marriage, how do you know it’s invalid? How do you know they didn’t have a dispensation, or haven’t straightened things out since then?

 

[Psalm30]

If they were to stay at my home I would politely inform them they would have to stay in seperate rooms

Please don’t do this. There’s nothing polite about asking two adults who are married (and by married, I mean two adults who have professed before witnesses and some sort of authority figure their intentions to remain together until death ) to sleep in separate bedrooms. Please don’t judge people who sin differently than you do.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Go and celebrate this milestone for your family and four our nation’s armed services. Thank your brother for his service on my behalf.

Christ knew these things would happen, that is why He used a descriptive lesson about splinters and planks.

There is no need to tell your brother you think he is a nasty sinner. That is the job of the Holy Spirit.

It is not your house, so, you don’t get to make the house rules.

Love people. Let your light so shine that they see your joy and love and want to have that joy and love in themselves.