Inventions/Superstitions

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Hope1960

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As many of you know, I left the CC (maybe not permanently) and have been spending my free time on CARM. Someone said that Sacraments are Catholic inventions and superstitions.
Where and when did the Sacraments originate?
 
Hope1960 said:
As many of you know, I left the CC (maybe not permanently) and have been spending my free time on CARM. Someone said that Sacraments are Catholic inventions and superstitions.
Where and when did the Sacraments originate?
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You need to clarify your question. Are you asking where they actually originated? Because that’s awfully easy to answer for most of them. Marriage is instituted by God in the OT. Baptism, Ordination, Confession, and Communion by Christ in the Gospels. Anointing of the sick is mentioned by James. Confirmation is hazier.

Or is the question about the origin of the idea of their efficacy? This is generally pretty easy to nail down as well. Jesus says that those who are married have been joined together by God. Jesus tells the Apostles that whoever’s sins they forgive are forgiven. Jesus tells us that this is His Body and His Blood. Peter tells us that Baptism saves us. James tells us that the anointing of the sick will lift us to heaven. Jesus ordains the Apostles when He institutes Confession.
 
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Apart from confirmation, I’m not aware of any mainline Protestant churches that deny that baptism, marriage, confession, anointing of the sick, communion, holy orders are biblical. Rather they question whether or not all of them rise to the level of a sacrament. Right?
 
mrsdizzyd said:
Apart from confirmation, I’m not aware of any mainline Protestant churches that deny that baptism, marriage, confession, anointing of the sick, communion, holy orders are biblical. Rather they question whether or not all of them rise to the level of a sacrament. Right?
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Right.

Though anointing of the sick is pretty rare outside of Catholic, Anglican, and maybe Lutheran circles. Which is weird, because it’s spelled out explicitly and its effects are described. I guess following James’ instructions would be admitting the existence of sacramentality and would lead to too many contradictions. James has a funny way of getting ignored outside the Catholic Church…
 
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I think you’re right. I’ve been mainly going to a Lutheran Church lately, and they have only two Sacraments. Thinking about leaving, though, because of their stance on the age of the earth and evolution.
 
I understand it this way. The sacraments are grounded in the teachings of Jesus and developed/emerged during this first centuries. The Church executes authority which it has from Jesus Christ himself and thus the sacraments are a valid fruit of his teachings. Catholics don’t go by Bible alone, we need Authority and tradition too.
 
Hope1960 said:
I’ve been mainly going to a Lutheran Church lately, and they have only two Sacraments.
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They only believe in two Sacraments. The Catholic Church says the Lutherans have two Sacraments as well. Interestingly, that Venn diagram only has one Sacrament in the intersection.
 
HopkinsReb said:
Though anointing of the sick is pretty rare outside of Catholic, Anglican, and maybe Lutheran circles.
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But… it is quite prevalent in some Pentecostal, Baptist, holiness, etc. churches. Although they use a very liberal interpretation of “sick”. 😂 Ah, memories…
 
I had annointing of the sick when I had a cancer scare and hysterectomy. It was comforting.
 
Hope1960 said:
I think you’re right. I’ve been mainly going to a Lutheran Church lately, and they have only two Sacraments. Thinking about leaving, though, because of their stance on the age of the earth and evolution.
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Holy Absolution is also a sacrament per Luther’s Large Catechism. And on the Real Presence:
141. … Luther’s opposition to the contemporary doctrine was not that he denied the real presence of Jesus Christ, but rather concerned how to understand the “change” in the Lord’s Supper.

154. Lutherans and Catholics can together affirm the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Lord’s Supper: “In the Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper Jesus Christ true God and true man, is present wholly and entirely, in his Body and Blood, under the signs of bread and wine” ( Eucharist 16). This common statement affirms all the essential elements of faith in the eucharistic presence of Jesus Christ without adopting the conceptual terminology of transubstantiation. Thus Catholics and Lutherans understand that “the exalted Lord is present in the Lord’s Supper in the body and blood he gave with his divinity and his humanity through the word of promise in the gifts of bread and wine in the power of the Holy Spirit for reception through the congregation.”(52)

52 Council of Trent, op. cit. (note 23), citing the Condemnations of the Reformation Era. 53 The English translation confuses this sentence; refer to the German original, in H. Meyer, H. J. Urban and L. Vischer (eds), Dokumente wachsender Űbereinstimmung: Sämtliche Berichte und Konsenstexte interkonfessioneller Gespräche auf Weltebene 1931–1982 (Paderborn: Bonifatius and Frankfurt: Lembeck, 1983), 287.
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http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...l-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html#Eucharist_
 
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Hope1960 said:
I had annointing of the sick when I had a cancer scare and hysterectomy. It was comforting.
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I have received the anointing of the sick for a recent illness. Not only was it comforting, but it was a conduit of grace for me.

I am very thankful to God for giving us the sacraments. I’m not sure how I managed without them, to be honest.
 
It has bothered me a little that I haven’t been receiving all the Sacraments.
 
Boredom? I’m sorry, I don’t understand.

Bored as Mass?
Bored because you don’t understand Catholicism?
Bored in general?
 
CilladeRoma said:
Boredom? I’m sorry, I don’t understand.

Bored as Mass?
Bored because you don’t understand Catholicism?
Bored in general?
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Bored at Mass. I sometimes go to two different non denominational churches, sometimes Lutheran (LCMS), but like I said, I can’t get on board with the belief of YEC and no evolution.

Their services are much more Spirit filled and lively, their sermons are more relatable than any homily I’ve heard.
 
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Have you tried a different parish?
Have you watched Bishop Barron’s videos on the Mass?

Does your local parish have any adult enrichment programs?

I’m not sure what you are talking about with your references to creation and how old the earth is. I know many Lutherans who believe in evolution of some sort, and that the earth is more than 6000 years old, so not sure why that is an issue.

As adults, we are only bored if we allow ourselves to be. My suggestion would be to meet with a priest or deacon and talk to them about your struggles.
 
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